David Hayes 20B Conversion

War Eagle · 02-06-2009, 03:47 PM

Hello! I was asked a few months ago to post here an overview of my 4 year 20B conversion "ordeal". For all the gory details, search for me (David Hayes) on the "other" forum. On here, I'm "War Eagle" in homage to my Auburn undergraduate degree

The good news first - the conversion is just a few weeks away from finally being complete. The car is at Kilo Racing in the hands of Jesus Padilla, a much respected rotary mechanic and racer. I couldn't be more pleased with him and the quality of his work. If you are in Florida and looking for a great mechanic and tuner, Jesus is your man. Call him at 407.438.5467, you won't be disappointed. Jesus has salvaged the project and in a few short months, rebuilt the engine, removed all unneeded electronics from the car, and generally, has brought the car back to OEM standards. He has completed street tuning on the car and has made a few preliminary dyno runs up to a little over 6,000 RPMs. We're currently at 505 WHP at 6,000 RPMs and at about 14 PSI. This is also with an AFR of 10.0 so we should easily eclipse the 600 WHP mark before all is said and done. We won't take the car over 18 PSI and may stick with 16 but we'll see.

Some details on the engine:

- 20B with new rotor housings
- New center plate
- Gotham Racing stage two street port
- Carlos Lopez balanced rotating assembly
- RA Superseals
- Xtreme Rotaries stud kit
- Center housing oil modification
- Gotham Racing oil coolers
- MSD Blaster SS coils
- Microtech LTX-12s EMS
- Pettit Racing 20B intercooler

The saga is a long and difficult one so I will spare you the details. I originally sent the car about 4 years ago to Cam Worth at Pettit Racing for a "Banzai" conversion which is basically a turn-key 3 rotor job. Pettit has done this conversion about a dozen times so I was pretty comfortable with letting them do the job. On the positive side they did the work in a relatively short time frame (under six months) but for whatever reason, they couldn't properly finish the tune on the car. I paid for a completed car but was left with a 20B that could not break the 400 WHP barrier. Fun to drive but certainly not what it should be. Turns out my car was the first 3 rotor Pettit project NOT done by Cam personally. Also turns out I paid about $15,000 for an engine that was supposed to be race built and balanced but was in reality a mis-matched engine composed of old parts, non-matching rotors, and incorrectly installed parts. The engine started to fail later at Gotham Racing due to an incorrectly installed center bearing. To Cam Worth's credit, he sent me all new parts for the rebuild, including a set of NRS ceramic seals.

My next mistake in the 20B saga was to send the car to Chris Greene with Wolf EMS USA in Sacramento CA. Chris' reputation is excellent as a rotary tuner and he convinced me to let him use the car as a Wolf EMS show piece. Said Wolf wanted a showcase car for the USA and my 20B project was perfect for their entry into the US market. He wanted to do a single turbo conversion on the car and use the Wolf EMS. Stupidly I had the car transported to him from my home in FL. After about one year of bullsh*t from Chris with one excuse after another why the single turbo conversion was taking so long and over $7,000 later, I literally stole the car back from him and sent it to Gotham Racing in TX. Turns out Chris had a drug problem and his shop was shut down just a few weeks after I got my car out.

So the car made it to Gotham Racing. After several months of sitting waiting to get into their schedule, Gotham began to work on the car. Much needed to be done as Chris Greene had the car in pieces. Initially Steve Kan worked on the car but then other mechanics took over. Big mistake as each subsequent mechanic had to redo work and ultimately I ended up with a car that was patch worked together. Went to Gotham multiple times over the two year period the car was there, each time thinking I was going to get to take the car home but to only be disappointed it was never ready to go. Also had the car broken into twice while it was there, certainly a major setback. Finally, this past November I flew to Dallas to pick up the car. Unfortunately, between the time I scheduled my flight and was supposed to travel, the landlord padlocked Gotham for past due rent. Steve Kan finally got an injunction against the landlord that allowed me to get the car out of the shop. I then had the car transported to a Supra shop, Jotech, as Gotham went out of business.

It now gets interesting. I made arrangements for George, one of Gotham's tuners and mechanics, to meet me at Jotech for the final tuning on the car. He was the last person to work on the car and I felt comfortable with him tuning the car. We had made arrangements for him to show up on a Thursday. Remember I flew (and my father-in-law) from FL to Dallas specifically for this. We we to drive the car back to FL after the tune. Yet, George was a non-show on Thursday saying he was still in Detroit. He also failed to show up on Friday, Saturday, and Sunday. What did we do? Sat and waited as our other option, Steve Kan, was out of town for a tuning session. George finally showed on Monday but told us he only had a few hours to spend with us. How's that for service. I'll save all the details but I can tell you this it cost him a job at Jotech (they were considering hiring him). On that Wednesday we finally got a few hours out of George and he got 675 WHP out of the car before we hit major walls with the water injection system failing and with the car having uncontrollable boost creep, problems which George could not fix. Also found out $5K worth of parts George was supposed to ship back to Pettit Racing were never sipped but sold by him but that is another story.

Coincidentally, Steve Kan called to find out how things were going and I ripped him for the condition of the car. He immediately offered to come over and finish the job and in a few short hours, was able to overcome the issues George could not. In fact he had the car running and had the tuning complete. Things were looking very promising - that is until his last dyno run when the engine blew. Never have I been so disappointed and the look on Steve' face told it all. As a testimony to Steve's character, he offered to rebuild the engine and complete the tuning at his new shop or to pay for the work to be done somewhere else. After much soul searching and advice from my father-in-law and from the guys at Jotech, I decided to trailer the car to Jesus Padilla, an acquaintance of the Jotech guys. Took us two days to make the trip from Dallas but it is now only a two hour drive to Jesus' shop.

That brings us full circle to now. The car should be back on the road in a few weeks and I am really looking forward to having all of this behind me and to enjoying the car. Will keep you posted!

A few pics in the meantime. Engine:

[img][/img]

War Eagle · 02-06-2009, 03:51 PM

A few shots of the exterior:

A short video of the car idling:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IF56zJx_N8s

***Herblenny*** · 02-06-2009, 04:50 PM

David!! WELCOME to RCC!!!

Now.. when it runs.. you need to debute to the world at DGRR 2009

And thanks for signing up on my forum... and it looks fantastic!

David Jerome · 02-07-2009, 01:22 AM

Still one of the best looking fds to date, sad you had to go thru all the headaches to reach this point. Looks like it is getting close to the finish line.

jamespond24 · 02-07-2009, 01:41 AM

Welcome David, how's the car?

***Herblenny*** · 02-07-2009, 07:26 AM

David, I'll be honest with you, my first post, I was making it as I was running out of the house.. and didn't read it all.

I just read it and all I can say is... WOW!! I don't know if you remember our phone calls.. but anyhow, glad things have worked out. Jesus Padilla is suppose to be one of the top rotary guys in the country and i'm glad they are doing their magic with you.. Hope thing will come to the end and hope you will feel all this will be worth it..

In my end, my FI 20B should be done end of this month. I'm heading over to my builder to give last few o rings and seals to give him and he'll start assembling it starting next week. I'm also going to see my other 20B get disassembled and that will be turned to NA 20B.. I'm taking the shell of the short block to No Limit where they are going to start building me a header.

Anyhow, Consider coming to DGRR 09. I've heard from Rich (GoodfellaFD3S) that Gordon might come and there should be couple of 20Bs.

War Eagle · 02-07-2009, 09:05 AM

Thanks for the comments. It has been a long and tortured process and I have learned a lot - namely what and who to avoid. Jesus Padilla has made the world of difference. He's two hours away which allows me to run down and check in on the progress. Wouldn't matter anyway as the guy is great and his craftsmanship impeccable.

As he was pulling apart the car when I first brought it in, I heard from him about everyday with an update on the inferior job that was done with the car, particularly the wiring. There is no doubt the cause of the many electrical gremlins I had over the past year were due to incorrect wiring, crimping, and soldering. I should have taken a pic of the pile of wires he removed and the condition they were in, it was pretty amazing. Probably shaved 20 lbs. off the car. With Jesus' diligence, it is now OEM like.

I have the 2009 DGRR circled on my calendar and have cleared it with the wife so if the car is ready, I'll be there. Shouldn't be a problem but I hesitate to say that given I thought I would be there for the past two years.

Of course I remember our conversations Phil

David Jerome · 02-07-2009, 06:16 PM

Damn your War Eagles today beating my Volunteers in bball

War Eagle · 02-07-2009, 10:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David Jerome

Damn your War Eagles today beating my Volunteers in bball

Followed it on my iPhone and they had incorrectly posted Auburn had tied the game up at 77 - 77. Didn't know it was a last second shot to win it.

War Eagle!

Chadwick · 02-07-2009, 11:10 PM

Hi David, welcome to RCC. Glad to see your car is almost back on the road. See you at DGRR!

Dan

War Eagle · 02-08-2009, 10:12 AM

FYI - I have for sale a MSD DIS4 Ignition Amp and a Jacobs Accuvolt Fr1500w Power Conditioner on the forum, $300 each shipped to you:

http://rotarycarclub.com/rotary_foru...ead.php?t=6475

I also have a HaltechE11v2 and complete wiring harness for sale for $1,050 shipped to you:

http://rotarycarclub.com/rotary_foru...ead.php?t=6474

Profit off of the mess ups by my mechanics and pick up one of these like new units.

Brent · 02-08-2009, 04:45 PM

David,
Glad to see your car is almost done. I've followed the build over the years and can only imagine how glad you must be that you can see the light at the end of the tunnel.

War Eagle · 02-08-2009, 05:30 PM

Thanks Brent. It has been a long time coming. When I drove the car last week, I got to feel again the reason I went through all of this. The power and torque is amazing.

Kwerks · 02-09-2009, 10:05 AM

wow, I think its amazing you are still sticking with the project! Bravo! on the steel will.

Post more pics please! with higher rez, thx!

vincentrx7 · 02-09-2009, 09:26 PM

I don't think you could have made up a story any better than this. I had the only running 20b at DGRR last year. I don't think I am going to make it this year as work is pretty crazy. I'd encourage you to go if you can. What transmission are you running? Amazing car BTW!

02-06-2009, 03:47 PM	#1
War Eagle Rotary Fanatic Join Date: Apr 2008 iTrader: (0) Posts: 240 Rep Power: 17	David Hayes 20B Conversion Hello! I was asked a few months ago to post here an overview of my 4 year 20B conversion "ordeal". For all the gory details, search for me (David Hayes) on the "other" forum. On here, I'm "War Eagle" in homage to my Auburn undergraduate degree The good news first - the conversion is just a few weeks away from finally being complete. The car is at Kilo Racing in the hands of Jesus Padilla, a much respected rotary mechanic and racer. I couldn't be more pleased with him and the quality of his work. If you are in Florida and looking for a great mechanic and tuner, Jesus is your man. Call him at 407.438.5467, you won't be disappointed. Jesus has salvaged the project and in a few short months, rebuilt the engine, removed all unneeded electronics from the car, and generally, has brought the car back to OEM standards. He has completed street tuning on the car and has made a few preliminary dyno runs up to a little over 6,000 RPMs. We're currently at 505 WHP at 6,000 RPMs and at about 14 PSI. This is also with an AFR of 10.0 so we should easily eclipse the 600 WHP mark before all is said and done. We won't take the car over 18 PSI and may stick with 16 but we'll see. Some details on the engine: - 20B with new rotor housings - New center plate - Gotham Racing stage two street port - Carlos Lopez balanced rotating assembly - RA Superseals - Xtreme Rotaries stud kit - Center housing oil modification - Gotham Racing oil coolers - MSD Blaster SS coils - Microtech LTX-12s EMS - Pettit Racing 20B intercooler The saga is a long and difficult one so I will spare you the details. I originally sent the car about 4 years ago to Cam Worth at Pettit Racing for a "Banzai" conversion which is basically a turn-key 3 rotor job. Pettit has done this conversion about a dozen times so I was pretty comfortable with letting them do the job. On the positive side they did the work in a relatively short time frame (under six months) but for whatever reason, they couldn't properly finish the tune on the car. I paid for a completed car but was left with a 20B that could not break the 400 WHP barrier. Fun to drive but certainly not what it should be. Turns out my car was the first 3 rotor Pettit project NOT done by Cam personally. Also turns out I paid about $15,000 for an engine that was supposed to be race built and balanced but was in reality a mis-matched engine composed of old parts, non-matching rotors, and incorrectly installed parts. The engine started to fail later at Gotham Racing due to an incorrectly installed center bearing. To Cam Worth's credit, he sent me all new parts for the rebuild, including a set of NRS ceramic seals. My next mistake in the 20B saga was to send the car to Chris Greene with Wolf EMS USA in Sacramento CA. Chris' reputation is excellent as a rotary tuner and he convinced me to let him use the car as a Wolf EMS show piece. Said Wolf wanted a showcase car for the USA and my 20B project was perfect for their entry into the US market. He wanted to do a single turbo conversion on the car and use the Wolf EMS. Stupidly I had the car transported to him from my home in FL. After about one year of bullsh*t from Chris with one excuse after another why the single turbo conversion was taking so long and over $7,000 later, I literally stole the car back from him and sent it to Gotham Racing in TX. Turns out Chris had a drug problem and his shop was shut down just a few weeks after I got my car out. So the car made it to Gotham Racing. After several months of sitting waiting to get into their schedule, Gotham began to work on the car. Much needed to be done as Chris Greene had the car in pieces. Initially Steve Kan worked on the car but then other mechanics took over. Big mistake as each subsequent mechanic had to redo work and ultimately I ended up with a car that was patch worked together. Went to Gotham multiple times over the two year period the car was there, each time thinking I was going to get to take the car home but to only be disappointed it was never ready to go. Also had the car broken into twice while it was there, certainly a major setback. Finally, this past November I flew to Dallas to pick up the car. Unfortunately, between the time I scheduled my flight and was supposed to travel, the landlord padlocked Gotham for past due rent. Steve Kan finally got an injunction against the landlord that allowed me to get the car out of the shop. I then had the car transported to a Supra shop, Jotech, as Gotham went out of business. It now gets interesting. I made arrangements for George, one of Gotham's tuners and mechanics, to meet me at Jotech for the final tuning on the car. He was the last person to work on the car and I felt comfortable with him tuning the car. We had made arrangements for him to show up on a Thursday. Remember I flew (and my father-in-law) from FL to Dallas specifically for this. We we to drive the car back to FL after the tune. Yet, George was a non-show on Thursday saying he was still in Detroit. He also failed to show up on Friday, Saturday, and Sunday. What did we do? Sat and waited as our other option, Steve Kan, was out of town for a tuning session. George finally showed on Monday but told us he only had a few hours to spend with us. How's that for service. I'll save all the details but I can tell you this it cost him a job at Jotech (they were considering hiring him). On that Wednesday we finally got a few hours out of George and he got 675 WHP out of the car before we hit major walls with the water injection system failing and with the car having uncontrollable boost creep, problems which George could not fix. Also found out $5K worth of parts George was supposed to ship back to Pettit Racing were never sipped but sold by him but that is another story. Coincidentally, Steve Kan called to find out how things were going and I ripped him for the condition of the car. He immediately offered to come over and finish the job and in a few short hours, was able to overcome the issues George could not. In fact he had the car running and had the tuning complete. Things were looking very promising - that is until his last dyno run when the engine blew. Never have I been so disappointed and the look on Steve' face told it all. As a testimony to Steve's character, he offered to rebuild the engine and complete the tuning at his new shop or to pay for the work to be done somewhere else. After much soul searching and advice from my father-in-law and from the guys at Jotech, I decided to trailer the car to Jesus Padilla, an acquaintance of the Jotech guys. Took us two days to make the trip from Dallas but it is now only a two hour drive to Jesus' shop. That brings us full circle to now. The car should be back on the road in a few weeks and I am really looking forward to having all of this behind me and to enjoying the car. Will keep you posted! A few pics in the meantime. Engine: [img][/img]

02-06-2009, 04:50 PM	#3
*Herblenny* Founder/Administrator/Internet Pitbull :) Join Date: Jan 2008 iTrader: (11) Posts: 644 Rep Power: 10	David!! WELCOME to RCC!!! Now.. when it runs.. you need to debute to the world at DGRR 2009 And thanks for signing up on my forum... and it looks fantastic! __________________ DGRR 2013 - Year of 13B www.DealsGapRotaryRally.com http://www.facebook.com/Herblenny

02-07-2009, 01:22 AM	#4
David Jerome RCC Contributor Join Date: Jan 2008 iTrader: (10) Posts: 713 Rep Power: 18	Still one of the best looking fds to date, sad you had to go thru all the headaches to reach this point. Looks like it is getting close to the finish line. __________________ David Jerome Broker for Speed For Sale LLC (David@SpeedForSale.com) (Pre-owned RX7/sports car sales & new parts sales/installs/tuning) PM me about low priced, high quality port work

02-07-2009, 07:26 AM	#6
*Herblenny* Founder/Administrator/Internet Pitbull :) Join Date: Jan 2008 iTrader: (11) Posts: 644 Rep Power: 10	David, I'll be honest with you, my first post, I was making it as I was running out of the house.. and didn't read it all. I just read it and all I can say is... WOW!! I don't know if you remember our phone calls.. but anyhow, glad things have worked out. Jesus Padilla is suppose to be one of the top rotary guys in the country and i'm glad they are doing their magic with you.. Hope thing will come to the end and hope you will feel all this will be worth it.. In my end, my FI 20B should be done end of this month. I'm heading over to my builder to give last few o rings and seals to give him and he'll start assembling it starting next week. I'm also going to see my other 20B get disassembled and that will be turned to NA 20B.. I'm taking the shell of the short block to No Limit where they are going to start building me a header. Anyhow, Consider coming to DGRR 09. I've heard from Rich (GoodfellaFD3S) that Gordon might come and there should be couple of 20Bs. __________________ DGRR 2013 - Year of 13B www.DealsGapRotaryRally.com http://www.facebook.com/Herblenny

02-07-2009, 06:16 PM	#8
David Jerome RCC Contributor Join Date: Jan 2008 iTrader: (10) Posts: 713 Rep Power: 18	Damn your War Eagles today beating my Volunteers in bball __________________ David Jerome Broker for Speed For Sale LLC (David@SpeedForSale.com) (Pre-owned RX7/sports car sales & new parts sales/installs/tuning) PM me about low priced, high quality port work

02-07-2009, 01:41 AM	#5
jamespond24 Rotary Fanatic Join Date: Feb 2008 iTrader: (0) Posts: 157 Rep Power: 17	Welcome David, how's the car?

02-07-2009, 09:05 AM	#7
War Eagle Rotary Fanatic Join Date: Apr 2008 iTrader: (0) Posts: 240 Rep Power: 17	Thanks for the comments. It has been a long and tortured process and I have learned a lot - namely what and who to avoid. Jesus Padilla has made the world of difference. He's two hours away which allows me to run down and check in on the progress. Wouldn't matter anyway as the guy is great and his craftsmanship impeccable. As he was pulling apart the car when I first brought it in, I heard from him about everyday with an update on the inferior job that was done with the car, particularly the wiring. There is no doubt the cause of the many electrical gremlins I had over the past year were due to incorrect wiring, crimping, and soldering. I should have taken a pic of the pile of wires he removed and the condition they were in, it was pretty amazing. Probably shaved 20 lbs. off the car. With Jesus' diligence, it is now OEM like. I have the 2009 DGRR circled on my calendar and have cleared it with the wife so if the car is ready, I'll be there. Shouldn't be a problem but I hesitate to say that given I thought I would be there for the past two years. Of course I remember our conversations Phil

02-07-2009, 11:10 PM	#10
Chadwick Rotary Fanatic Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Smyrna, TN, USA iTrader: (3) Posts: 239 Rep Power: 17	Hi David, welcome to RCC. Glad to see your car is almost back on the road. See you at DGRR! Dan __________________ 93 RX7 BB (Race Car) 93 RX7 SSM (Soon to be IBM and a daily driver) 05 Silverado Z71 08 Mini Cooper 80 LS RX7 (for sale)

02-08-2009, 10:12 AM	#11
War Eagle Rotary Fanatic Join Date: Apr 2008 iTrader: (0) Posts: 240 Rep Power: 17	FYI - I have for sale a MSD DIS4 Ignition Amp and a Jacobs Accuvolt Fr1500w Power Conditioner on the forum, $300 each shipped to you: http://rotarycarclub.com/rotary_foru...ead.php?t=6475 I also have a HaltechE11v2 and complete wiring harness for sale for $1,050 shipped to you: http://rotarycarclub.com/rotary_foru...ead.php?t=6474 Profit off of the mess ups by my mechanics and pick up one of these like new units.

02-08-2009, 04:45 PM	#12
Brent Sua Sponte Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Killeen, TX iTrader: (4) Posts: 839 Rep Power: 17	David, Glad to see your car is almost done. I've followed the build over the years and can only imagine how glad you must be that you can see the light at the end of the tunnel. __________________ Road Atlanta August 2011 NASA TT 1:33 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IFY00PAK_Ps Traqmate's video of my car from the 2011 UTCC at VIR http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Zcn6...layer_embedded Video of Yellow LS1 FD at NASA TT at VIR http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e6k0lJkcwrM

02-08-2009, 05:30 PM	#13
War Eagle Rotary Fanatic Join Date: Apr 2008 iTrader: (0) Posts: 240 Rep Power: 17	Thanks Brent. It has been a long time coming. When I drove the car last week, I got to feel again the reason I went through all of this. The power and torque is amazing.

02-09-2009, 10:05 AM	#14
Kwerks FD Spirit Join Date: Dec 2008 iTrader: (0) Posts: 29 Rep Power: 0	wow, I think its amazing you are still sticking with the project! Bravo! on the steel will. Post more pics please! with higher rez, thx! __________________ Understeer is when you hit the wall with the front of the car and oversteer is when you hit the wall with the rear of the car. Horsepower is how fast you hit the wall, torque is how far you take the wall with you.

02-09-2009, 09:26 PM	#15
vincentrx7 20b FD Join Date: Apr 2008 iTrader: (0) Posts: 105 Rep Power: 17	I don't think you could have made up a story any better than this. I had the only running 20b at DGRR last year. I don't think I am going to make it this year as work is pretty crazy. I'd encourage you to go if you can. What transmission are you running? Amazing car BTW! __________________ Bobby '93 20b RX-7