Rice Racing M&W CDI COP Set-up

[infernosg]

Originally Posted by RICE RACING

They are a lottery alright, due to internal defects in all ceramics (regardless of cost or vendor) they just vary in intensity and are packaged as such (Gold seals for example lol).... These c-u-n-t-s all let go at random seemingly due to this fatal flaw, even on NA applications.

Safest thing is to fuck them off and sell to someone else and use a product that will never suffer in a catastrophic way, so that means no Mazda, Cast Iron, Carbon (the seal wont fuck your motor, but the springs will!) or Ceramics can ever go into any engine, as all of these will fail in this fashion, The general rule is if you cant smash it with a hammer without braking then it should NOT go into your engine. And if it distorts after smashing it with a hammer, it should NOT go into your engine either! there is ONLY ONE PRODUCT that can pass these two tests (and all others!) and that is STEEL SCIENCE.

You got me. Email sent inquiring about the seals. We'll see how much more money you can get out of me

EDIT: Just came across some old discussions on RX7Club where you were praising the NRS ceramic seals (back in '05, I think). Knowing your stance on ceramics seals now, what changed? I'm not calling you out and I understand the low impact strength of ceramics. I'm just generally curious why the change of heart?

Patiently waiting on the COP adapters too. They'll save me ~4 ft of wiring harness and eliminate the need for four ~2 ft ignition leads.

[RICE RACING]

Originally Posted by infernosg

You got me. Email sent inquiring about the seals. We'll see how much more money you can get out of me

EDIT: Just came across some old discussions on RX7Club where you were praising the NRS ceramic seals (back in '05, I think). Knowing your stance on ceramics seals now, what changed? I'm not calling you out and I understand the low impact strength of ceramics. I'm just generally curious why the change of heart?

Patiently waiting on the COP adapters too. They'll save me ~4 ft of wiring harness and eliminate the need for four ~2 ft ignition leads.

What changed was I bought over 70 sets of ceramics from Sven, I learned the 'hard way' that ALL ceramic products are 100% FUCKING SHIT! just like every other person has done in reality. I found on through exposure to that many end users through all different applications that this many customers go through, what I found was RAMPANT unexplainable FAILURES, ones that happened with NO formal reason, no fault of customer, but ALWAYS this was blamed on something (convenient excuse) for Sven. To his defense I went through exactly the same thing with Ianetti as well, random failures, and ALL of these I find out through using more than any one else is to do with a fundamental lack of FRACTURE TOUGHNESS and this is an inherent flaw in ceramic materials. They ALL have this flaw in them, they ALL have internal defects like all materials do have, but in ceramic case its a flaw that the material simply cannot handle in any engine application and under the normal stresses and stains of operation (even NA) they just randomly fail!!! (as I was seeing through my extensive customer base have sold so many sets of these pieces of shit).

If you look close its not just me who says this (though I have more experience than anyone on this due to the volume I supplied to so many end users), and all go through exactly the same thing (rampant non explained failure methods) that 99 times out of 100 end up in an engine that totally goes into the parts bin!!!!! And in a turbo engined case its a given that this is what will happen.

After so many years and going through that experience first hand I said to myself FUCK THIS!@ there has to be a better way to engineer the merits of a ceramic material but also have the positives of the ductility of a ferrous material that is specified and treated right. It took me near 7 years of testing to come up with my own specification that does it, and it does it like no other. I made something that is failure proof, but is compatible with the rotor housing surface. Its made for life, and its engineering quality rewrites the book on how something should be made, not cheap, but its the best by a long margin over anything else made to date.

From every bad experience we learn something and the main point is to make a better product, if this principle was not followed then we would never have had better rotary engines, instead being stuck with the 10A shitbox LOL, so yes its a constant evolution until you actually solve a problem. I have the best apex seals ever devised, does it mean now I will rest? NO! I will keep on going like I have the last 22 years and keep on leading the way in development and pioneering the best solutions, be in COP, Water Injection, or APEX SEALS

[project86]

Ill admit that i didn't read through this entire thread. So if the question was already answered I'm sorry. But with your COP set up (I did see the price $2700USD if i remember) are you including coils with the brackets?

also i think its pretty awesome that you're making apex seals too!!!

[RICE RACING]

Originally Posted by project86

Ill admit that i didn't read through this entire thread. So if the question was already answered I'm sorry. But with your COP set up (I did see the price $2700USD if i remember) are you including coils with the brackets?

also i think its pretty awesome that you're making apex seals too!!!

The ones listed with prices is compete.
IGN-1A is (RR mounting and adaptors + coils)
M&W is (RR mounting + boots + internal connections + CDI box or box's + M&W coils) 2 options in this version
They are all with Titanium fasteners throughout as well !

Yes the apex seals are my life work, everything about them is the BEST, all are parts life and database recorded, even the case they come in 'exotic', really warrant the price from a complete package for those who demand the ultimate in every aspect. This market has never seen anything like it before now, and no one will ever be able to copy it on any level (leave that shit to the 20+ other jokers in the space). the final full 'as shipped' production versions I'll do a full photo shoot on once ready in a couple of weeks time.

[project86]

The $1300 option still has everything needed to work minus the CDI box? What is the purpose of the CDI box? Forgive my ignorance.

[RICE RACING]

Originally Posted by project86

The $1300 option still has everything needed to work minus the CDI box? What is the purpose of the CDI box? Forgive my ignorance.

The $1300 option uses the IGN-1A type ignition coil, this coil has an inbuilt high current driver which builds up current in the primary side of the coil, so far as wiring this system simply needs the 4 channels of ignition fed to each coil. NOTE: IF you run an Apexi PFC type ECU with wasted leading spark, this system is not suitable as there is not enough time between firing events to build up sufficient energy in the coil.

For a wasted spark set up (Apexi PFC or any other ECU set up this way) you will need a custom 3 box CDI set up!!! (not listed) you will need 2 x boxes to do the leading plugs and 1 x box to do the trailing plugs, I wont bore you with details but its how it is for same reasons as the IGN-1A in a round about way!

Best thing to do is FUCK OFF the Apexi PFC and put in an Adaptronic ECU that can be set to run in sequential ignition mode (4 channels) then you can use ANY of the set ups I have listed.

[RICE RACING]

Originally Posted by project86

The $1300 option still has everything needed to work minus the CDI box? What is the purpose of the CDI box? Forgive my ignorance.

The CDI box sends the DON MEGA high voltage to the low resistance CDI specific coils, the coils act as a step up transformer amplifying the voltage to INSANE levels. This process is super fast!... NOTE: it still takes time to build up the 'power' in the Capacitors and this is why even with multi channel boxes you need a certain minimum time between firing events to make the full rated capacity of that specific CDI box. For the M&W rotary box it can only do this on a sequential 4 channel ECU sending even spaced spark events out of the ECU (IE Apexi PFC does not do this on Leading plugs).

It IGN-1A uses inductance and takes time to build up the primary side voltage and current to a level that is acceptable enough, then as this field collapses it induces a secondary high voltage through magnetic inductance in the secondary winding of the coil, its a slow ass process, that is very dependent on 'dwell' or charge time. IF you don't have enough time to build up the charge then the c-u-n-t-s have very low power and will misfire, so cant be used on wasted spark engines (OEM and PFC), and they always struggle at high RPM due to the proportional loss of dwell time available to build up sufficient energy through this slow ass process...... this is why the c-u-n-t-s are shit on 2 stroke / WANKEL high rev applications as there is such low time between firing events ........... hope this makes sense?

[project86]

Originally Posted by RICE RACING

The CDI box sends the DON MEGA high voltage to the low resistance CDI specific coils, the coils act as a step up transformer amplifying the voltage to INSANE levels. This process is super fast!... NOTE: it still takes time to build up the 'power' in the Capacitors and this is why even with multi channel boxes you need a certain minimum time between firing events to make the full rated capacity of that specific CDI box. For the M&W rotary box it can only do this on a sequential 4 channel ECU sending even spaced spark events out of the ECU (IE Apexi PFC does not do this on Leading plugs).

It IGN-1A uses inductance and takes time to build up the primary side voltage and current to a level that is acceptable enough, then as this field collapses it induces a secondary high voltage through magnetic inductance in the secondary winding of the coil, its a slow ass process, that is very dependent on 'dwell' or charge time. IF you don't have enough time to build up the charge then the c-u-n-t-s have very low power and will misfire, so cant be used on wasted spark engines (OEM and PFC), and they always struggle at high RPM due to the proportional loss of dwell time available to build up sufficient energy through this slow ass process...... this is why the c-u-n-t-s are shit on 2 stroke / WANKEL high rev applications as there is such low time between firing events ........... hope this makes sense?

Yes.. so its for speed and strength of the spark the coil is giving. So it would work fine with out the CDI box if it was run on a standalone system like Haltech?

[RICE RACING]

Originally Posted by project86

Yes.. so its for speed and strength of the spark the coil is giving. So it would work fine with out the CDI box if it was run on a standalone system like Haltech?

Haltech (only one that cant is the PFC) can use the IGN-1A effectively, yes.

[project86]

Originally Posted by RICE RACING

Haltech (only one that cant is the PFC) can use the IGN-1A effectively, yes.

gotcha. Well... eventually ill be very interested

as soon as I'm ready to get the engine all built up. I'm working on getting the rest of the car ready to receive the good ol engine.

by the way .. your use of the term "donmega" makes me giggle. I assume it means "awesome" but i like it

[RICE RACING]

Almost ready !!!!! Want some ?????

[Mazdabater]

If anyone wants a cheaper setup I have HKS dli I brought off Rice himself and I now wanna run COP. Inbox me. $350 with FD loom (Thats AUD so probably work out cheaper for u cunts)

I realise Im sorta hacking your thread here but it's so I can try afford COP while I'm unemployed =P

[RICE RACING]

Measured a PIECE OF FUCKING SHIT apex seal made by the useless c-u-n-t-s 'power seals' snapped the turd with a pair of pliers LOL and the piece I have left is factory ground on a taper LOL, bottom of it is 1.932mm and top is 1.945mm LOL!!!!!! only 0.013mm deviation in thickness over 8mm distance!!!!!!!

Fucking piece of crap! These seal TOTALLY RAPED a brand new set of rotor housings too LOL, and they broke in the engine as well hahaha.



Mind you this is the same c-u-n-t (Kev from SCR) who sent me his prototype SCR seals in 2005, these turned up in a GLAD snap lock bag and were sanded on on the flats in figure of 8 pattern LOL and made from BHP mild steel cold drawn bar black bar LOL.

These shonky made 'Power Seals' are not much better, what the fuck do you expect for ~$300 LOL

You get what you pay for, in this case A LOT LESS !
It pieces of fucking garbage like this and the list is longer than my cock! (one shit product after another!) that made me say 'fuck all these asshats!' it about time someone made a decent apex seal product
that actually has some engineering pedigree behind it and will actually work!

[project86]

Maybe you can get mazda interested

[RICE RACING]

Originally Posted by project86

Maybe you can get mazda interested

They are way too expensive in material and processing to make for OEM to be interested.

The special work alone in processing is over 20 hours work in each set, they would never be down for that. They cost me allot! but money was no object in coming up with a solution I found acceptable.

Mazda on the other hand have a very different design brief, lowest cost, durability, safety factor, and power limit many orders lower.

I can make the Mazda seal for around $15 a piece (main beam and corner), the material is basic shit, the hardening of the tip is 'simple', the finish is average. I am sure they get it made for less than that. For the application they are o.k. (just) and I am sure Mazda can make it for less than I could? outsourcing to Mahle or similar company..... either way they make an absolute killing on the parts when selling it to end users, that is a fact.