Thinking of going e-fan

[My5ABaby]

I'm not sure what your EMS setup is, but I tuned in a wall of fuel at ~230 degrees so even if my fan were to quit my car wouldn't overheat (it'd probably shut down within a few seconds). Just something to think about for future use.

[Pete_89T2]

That's an interesting use of an EMS as a failsafe!

My EMS is just a dumb Rtek 2.x, which is basically a chipped stock ECU, with the ability to tweak each of the stock ECU fuel & spark map cells by something like +/-15%. It also has presets so you can run 720cc FIs, stock 550s or any combo of these FIs out of the box running stock maps. There are a few other things you can tweak, like the RPMs that the secondary FI's stage in, but not much else. For an FC that has a healthy stock wiring harness, an Rtek isn't a bad option if your mods won't take you beyond 275 rwhp or so.

[TitaniumTT]

Originally Posted by RETed

My 2 cents...

I have gone through horror stories with electric fans...
I'm very paranoid when running just 1 fan.
Electric fans will fail.
I've had them fail on the street, and I've seen them fail on the track.
Either or will ruin your day.

I would like to interject that it depends on the size of your rad.... I've had 3 electric fans fail on me now, once on the street, once on the track, one froze over the winter and while they all pissed me off... neither ruined my day.... Some funny stories.

Pulled the car out of the garage to leave for DGRR 2011 and with the car warming up we were chatting and packing the last of our things.... funny.... fan didn't turn on... looked inside at the dash and the overheat light was on... temp was like 192 or something (yes, my overheat light is triggered @ 190 because under normal circumstances it never gets about 187*) Interesting.... come to find out that the motor just puked... whatever... buy replacement at autosuck and of we go.

That fan died on the track a year later @ LRP. I wasn't even monitoring coolant temps that day and it was like 104* or some crazy shit at the track. So, jump in the car for the next session and the overheat light is on.... no biggie because it heatsoaked a little... jump in and drive through the pits and the light is still on... that's not normal... pull over and hook up the laptop and find that the coolant temp was like 200* or some shit... fuck man.... WHY!!!!! Coolant level looked good, no belt slippage... ZMGWTFBBQ!!!!! The fan literally broke where the support fins meet the plastic... fuck you... so I literally RIP that POS out, splash some water on the rad and jump back out on the track with no fan..... Not once had a cooling problem.. just had to splash water on the rad after the session and before I went out again... and I changed my dash to display coolant temps. Luckily I trailered in so it was a non issue.

Got the car back to the shop and went rummaging through the sheds and found a 16" fan, made note of the terminals in the weatherpack housing, yep, B is for B (Black), A is for Activate - L. Bolt it in, hook it up, fire up the laptop, check output, click... fan turns on, kewl, we're good to go... ALLL THE WAY FROM PA DOWN TO NC in the summer. Not once a cooling issue.
The way back though.... fuck... got stuck in traffic in or around Richmond.... ugh I hate I95. Temps start creeping up... Are you fucking kidding me? Seriously? Every time I would get over 30mph or so they would go back down.... WTF? Sitting in traffic like dead stopped the car gets up to 220*... fuck this noise... pull over and shut her down... fuck me... wait a few minutes for traffic to start moving and off I go... sitting in traffic again, temps creep up... motherfucker... pull over again when the temp hits like 210 or something and pop the hood... WHAT THE FUCK... I can hear the fan running??? THE FUCK IS GOING ON! Stand in front of the car and I can feel heat blowing on my legs.... OH FOR FUCKS SAKE!!!! Apparently the fan that I found was a pusher... not a puller... I was cooling the rad in traffic with scalding engine bay heat in the summer in VA
Ripped the weatherpack connectors out with my barehands and plugged the terminals in and off I went
The ducting is so tight that once I got over 30 mph, it would overpower the fan

Originally Posted by RETed

I'm a firm believer that you should be running twin fans.
Luckily, Spal makes one - I believe Be Cool rebadges these things?
It's like 2800CFM for twin 13" units?
(I don't see it on the Be Cool website. )
The downside is that these things pull some serious current.
Minimum 15A - 20A *per* fan.
Can you imagine running both of them just idling???
Yeah, upgrade alternator is a must.

I like this idea... I think I just added something to my todo list this year... twin fans with dual controls through the ECU... once fan kicks on @ 185*, the other @ 195*....

Originally Posted by RETed

IME, things don't get toasty until the temps hit 240F - 245F.
At 240F - 245F, you can SMELL the engine burning - good visceral sign that something is WRONG.

Yes, people will balk at those numbers, but I will stand by my experience.
We've had our race cars run up to 250F - 260F intermittently without puking seals.
This is not possible, right?
I'm living proof that I can run at those kinda numbers.
I've been running my Haltech E8 like that for the past 5 years so far...

I've got these numbers up on my website here:
http://fc3spro.com/TECH/MODS/EL/GAUGES/wtemp.htm


-Ted

I can attest to that.... We've seen our race cars go that high with no real problems afterwards either.... I don't like it, but it happens....

Originally Posted by Pete_89T2

Well folks, I decided to scrap the e-fan project and ordered a new fan clutch from Rockauto. Good thing I did, because I got the last one they had on wholesaler closeout for $39, and when that one sold, they jacked the price up to $169!

Anyway, my primary motivation for going e-fan was to clean up the engine bay and improve maintainability/access. The problem is that when you have a thicker than stock aftermarket radiator, the stock fan & shroud become a PITA to R&R when you use all the stock fastener points for the shroud like I did. The thought occurred to me that if I modify the stock shroud mounting points (i.e., relocate some, make all fasteners easier to get to), I could make it a lot easier to R&R the shroud & fan when needed. More to follow if I figure this out.

What about taking the shroud off and cutting it in half across the rad, not down it... then building a bracket that's riveted on one side with e Dzus fastener on the other. The way you can split the shroud in half and take the top half off giving MUCH better access to the front of the waterpump and the fan?

Originally Posted by GySgtFrank

IMO You're much better off staying with the mechanical fan if you can. As Ted says, electric fans fail, ...regularly. Usually if the mechanical fan quits turning so does the engine, no problems. The V-mount bubbas just haz ta take their chances.

Tae our chances? Psssshhhhh.... there are failsafes

Originally Posted by My5ABaby

I'm not sure what your EMS setup is, but I tuned in a wall of fuel at ~230 degrees so even if my fan were to quit my car wouldn't overheat (it'd probably shut down within a few seconds). Just something to think about for future use.

If you have the newer haltech platinums they have that wonder engine protection function that has saved one car a few times now.....

Originally Posted by Pete_89T2

That's an interesting use of an EMS as a failsafe!

My EMS is just a dumb Rtek 2.x, which is basically a chipped stock ECU, with the ability to tweak each of the stock ECU fuel & spark map cells by something like +/-15%. It also has presets so you can run 720cc FIs, stock 550s or any combo of these FIs out of the box running stock maps. There are a few other things you can tweak, like the RPMs that the secondary FI's stage in, but not much else. For an FC that has a healthy stock wiring harness, an Rtek isn't a bad option if your mods won't take you beyond 275 rwhp or so.

I don't believe the Rtek has the option of fueling for temp.....

FWIW on the 'vert, it's going to be a "stock" rad... it's a Fluidyne that I plan to triple pass.... yes... triple pass... because of the design (crossflow) it can't be doubled... only tripled... so I've got that going for me.

I'm also running the REW WP housing which won't let me run a mechanical fan, different location of the WP and it spins backwards... So I'm stuck with an electric fan.
In the interest of aesthetics.... I will at first be running dual pushers.... because... if it's insufficient.... I'll change it to dual pullers and build another shroud...

[RETed]

Originally Posted by TitaniumTT

I would like to interject that it depends on the size of your rad....

Good point.
I run an AFCO 80125N.
22.5" x 18.5" x 3.0" core, 2-core, 1" core tubes, double-pass
26.0" x 20.0" x 3.0" overall
Biggest rad we could stuff in the FC without "major" mods.
Stock rad supports required to be cut.
Battery needs to be relocated or downsized.
Custom mounting required.

Originally Posted by TitaniumTT

I like this idea... I think I just added something to my todo list this year... twin fans with dual controls through the ECU... once fan kicks on @ 185*, the other @ 195*....

If you can't run a side-by-side, you can run two separate fans...
One pusher in front of the rad, and one puller on the back-side.


-Ted

[Pete_89T2]

Originally Posted by TitaniumTT

What about taking the shroud off and cutting it in half across the rad, not down it... then building a bracket that's riveted on one side with e Dzus fastener on the other. The way you can split the shroud in half and take the top half off giving MUCH better access to the front of the waterpump and the fan?

I like that idea... I was thinking of a split shroud concept, although I didn't think the stock plastic shroud material is rigid enough to be split like that. Would need a really solid bracket & fastener design to make sure it doesn't flex and interfere with the fan at any point during vibration/shock & any engine movement.

Originally Posted by TitaniumTT

I don't believe the Rtek has the option of fueling for temp.....

It doesn't.