Remain true to original or upgrade?

parrotfever · 09-17-2009, 11:54 PM

Many thanks to all for helping me clarify my thoughts! I've spent time trying to gain an education by following threads and many (most?) involve turbo upgrades/conversions. It starts one to thinking. It would be nice to have an additional 25-50 HP if I can find it NA, but I recognize I'm not ready to look further at this time. I can fit the ballparks suggested in the budget and tackle the rest of the carcass first. Once I've got a good rolling platform, I can begin to play. First looking for rotor/housing as time allows.

Ted,

Maybe it was a bad day? Perhaps perspective. To clarify, I bought this car new in 1989, I've hung on through moves, divorce, singlehood, remarraige. I bought it for its engine which fascinated me from the first one I saw in Manhattan in 1972 but never understood until dismantling it last month. I bought it for its handling, reminicent of my 1959 Triumph TR-3. I'll NEVER dump it. I have no idea if that places me into your definition of an enthusiast or not, but it fits mine.

I come from a culture where matching numbers and OEM correctness mean everything. I've entered a culture where other goals apply. I'm seeking advice as to potential paths forward from others who have walked them. I thought that was one of this forum's purposes. In the end, of course it is I who will decide. Peace.

djmtsu · 09-18-2009, 09:24 AM

Don't worry about Ted, every day is a bad day for him.

Rebuild it with some simple mods, nothing too crazy. The things I listed are easy, effective, and make a difference. Also, I would say to upgrade the radiator, and maybe go e-fan with a SPAL controller, but it might not be necessary in NJ.

Good luck man!!

parrotfever · 09-18-2009, 10:43 AM

Appreciate the support! My next step will be to run spec measurements on all parts. This I understand as was a tool & die maker & draftsman in a previous life. Any additional needs/concerns will come to light then. Next question - replace all seals, grommets, etc. w/ new? Is anything reusable? Complete rebuild kits are pricey from what I've seen.

Also, I neglected to add that the culture I come from included the ability to do a complete tuneup with a screwdriver, open end wrench, and a piece of 1/4" air hose to balance the SUs. Where do I start to get an education on 'computer tuning'? Does this mean someday I'll be running more than GPS on my laptop?

Phoenix7 · 09-18-2009, 12:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by djmtsu

Don't worry about Ted, every day is a bad day for him.

Rebuild it with some simple mods, nothing too crazy. The things I listed are easy, effective, and make a difference. Also, I would say to upgrade the radiator, and maybe go e-fan with a SPAL controller, but it might not be necessary in NJ.

Good luck man!!

Ted's just grumpy until he figures out you're not some kiddie with pipe dreams of dorifto mastery with the rotary.

It's not easy maintaining a 7, let alone with a full family.

get it back on the road. You won't be disappointed in the NA motor.

YOu won't be doing much computer tuning but you'll do similar adjustments on the electronics (tps, crank angle sensor, etc., etc.)

YOu have to take the motor apart and see what needs to be replaced and what can be reused.

Phoenix7 · 09-18-2009, 12:40 PM

rebuild kits wil be much cheaper if you join here:
www.nasaproracing.com

Once you get your member info from them send it to:
https://www.mazdamotorsports.com/web...0001&langId=-1
and you should get a discount.

NoDOHC · 09-18-2009, 07:39 PM

That is awesome that you are the original owner of the car!

How many miles were on the clock when it died?

Which rotor went out?

How much carbon was found in the rotating port sleeves on the outside two housings?

You don't need a full rebuild kit, just figure out which parts you need and get them.

I have a very nice S5 housing (basically mint condition) that I can sell you for $50 plus shipping. (Mostly because I want to see the car on the road again, it is worth more than that).

I would sell you a good rotor, but they are spoken for (going in my 4-port).

I will give you one rotor worth of OEM Mazda seals (about 20,000 miles on them). I have not checked them for size, but I doubt they are out of spec.

You can fix your old rotor if you are patient. I have seen guys rebuild a rotary with used hard seals and the original rotors (all the seal grooves will need to have the appropriate sized broach driven through them, and then checked for fitment very carefully).

Many would disagree, but I think that using the original rotor (reshaped) is your best option.

A gasket and soft seal kit will cost you about $150.00 on eBay.

PM me if you are interested in the seals or the rotor.

parrotfever · 09-19-2009, 10:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NoDOHC

That is awesome that you are the original owner of the car!

How many miles were on the clock when it died?

Which rotor went out?

How much carbon was found in the rotating port sleeves on the outside two housings?

087,870 (think I pulled it on purpose at that reading) on the ODO + ~30M with speedometer disconnected.

Something broke loose into the rear chamber. The rear rotor & housing sustained severe damage. Too many 9000+ shifts I guess.

As to carbon - very light. Cleanup of internals barely necessary. The outside took a beating from being dragged all over the State.

parrotfever · 09-19-2009, 10:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phoenix7

rebuild kits wil be much cheaper if you join here:
www.nasaproracing.com

Once you get your member info from them send it to:
https://www.mazdamotorsports.com/web...0001&langId=-1
and you should get a discount.

Many thanks for the info! Wondered how one cracked that barrier.

Flooder · 09-23-2009, 04:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NoDOHC

but I have heard of a 176 WHP S4 NA with nothing but exhaust and a FPR).

I'm going to pull a Ted and say "That's BS, dyno sheet or gtfo". Paraphrasing of course

.

Phoenix7 · 09-23-2009, 11:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by parrotfever

Many thanks for the info! Wondered how one cracked that barrier.

I found that to be the cheapest route. $45 bucks gets you NASA membership and 1 year to grassroots. I think NASA is a much more than that.

You just need to go to the track 2x per year and provide proof of track-time and you get a discount. They also have contingency (prize money for representing mazda) programs but haven't looked into them.

Phoenix7 · 09-23-2009, 12:09 PM

as far as 176 with exhaust and FPR....

since it's hearsay and haven't seen a setup.

Wife's NA dyno'ed 150rwhp with SAFC, pineapple racing sleeves, intake and full RB collected system tuned in the 12s. I think we could have squeezed another 20 with finer tuning, true-duals and a better intake...dunno.

jerd_hambone · 09-23-2009, 12:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by need RX7

Stay n/a... but with an extra rotor

Agreed!

I'd honestly rebuild, port, RB header and exhaust, intake, short shifter, RB suspension package, basically everything that was mentioned haha

NoDOHC · 09-23-2009, 11:23 PM

Quote:

as far as 176 with exhaust and FPR.... since it's hearsay and haven't seen a setup.

Wife's NA dyno'ed 150rwhp with SAFC, pineapple racing sleeves, intake and full RB collected system tuned in the 12s. I think we could have squeezed another 20 with finer tuning, true-duals and a better intake...dunno.

I hate to invoke the 'evil' forum but:

http://www.rx7club.com/showthread.php?t=712131

Two engines over 170 WHp with stock ports stock ECUs on the first page (I didn't dig too deep)

View Poll Results: Keep it legal and original or go for broke?
Replace blown rotor & housing	0	0%
Option #1 plus upgrade NA for more HP	13	52.00%
Buy rebuilt NA short block	1	4.00%
Go Turbo	11	44.00%
Voters: 25. You may not vote on this poll

09-17-2009, 11:54 PM	#16
parrotfever Rotary Fan in Training Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Northern NJ iTrader: (0) Posts: 37 Rep Power: 0	Many thanks to all for helping me clarify my thoughts! I've spent time trying to gain an education by following threads and many (most?) involve turbo upgrades/conversions. It starts one to thinking. It would be nice to have an additional 25-50 HP if I can find it NA, but I recognize I'm not ready to look further at this time. I can fit the ballparks suggested in the budget and tackle the rest of the carcass first. Once I've got a good rolling platform, I can begin to play. First looking for rotor/housing as time allows. Ted, Maybe it was a bad day? Perhaps perspective. To clarify, I bought this car new in 1989, I've hung on through moves, divorce, singlehood, remarraige. I bought it for its engine which fascinated me from the first one I saw in Manhattan in 1972 but never understood until dismantling it last month. I bought it for its handling, reminicent of my 1959 Triumph TR-3. I'll NEVER dump it. I have no idea if that places me into your definition of an enthusiast or not, but it fits mine. I come from a culture where matching numbers and OEM correctness mean everything. I've entered a culture where other goals apply. I'm seeking advice as to potential paths forward from others who have walked them. I thought that was one of this forum's purposes. In the end, of course it is I who will decide. Peace. __________________ 1989 RX-7 convertible 2000 F-350 4x4 crew cab 2002 Altima 3.5 wife's buggy - 2004 Titan 4x4 crew cab

09-18-2009, 09:24 AM	#17
djmtsu My minds tellin' me no... Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Murfreesboro, TN iTrader: (10) Posts: 4,043 Rep Power: 21	Don't worry about Ted, every day is a bad day for him. Rebuild it with some simple mods, nothing too crazy. The things I listed are easy, effective, and make a difference. Also, I would say to upgrade the radiator, and maybe go e-fan with a SPAL controller, but it might not be necessary in NJ. Good luck man!! __________________ 1976 Mazda Cosmo RX-5 1976 Mazda Cosmo RX-5 2003 Toyota Tundra TRD 2015 Toyota 4Runner SR5

09-18-2009, 10:43 AM	#18
parrotfever Rotary Fan in Training Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Northern NJ iTrader: (0) Posts: 37 Rep Power: 0	Appreciate the support! My next step will be to run spec measurements on all parts. This I understand as was a tool & die maker & draftsman in a previous life. Any additional needs/concerns will come to light then. Next question - replace all seals, grommets, etc. w/ new? Is anything reusable? Complete rebuild kits are pricey from what I've seen. Also, I neglected to add that the culture I come from included the ability to do a complete tuneup with a screwdriver, open end wrench, and a piece of 1/4" air hose to balance the SUs. Where do I start to get an education on 'computer tuning'? Does this mean someday I'll be running more than GPS on my laptop? __________________ 1989 RX-7 convertible 2000 F-350 4x4 crew cab 2002 Altima 3.5 wife's buggy - 2004 Titan 4x4 crew cab

09-18-2009, 07:39 PM	#21
NoDOHC The quest for more torque Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Sheboygan, Wisconsin iTrader: (1) Posts: 855 Rep Power: 17	That is awesome that you are the original owner of the car! How many miles were on the clock when it died? Which rotor went out? How much carbon was found in the rotating port sleeves on the outside two housings? You don't need a full rebuild kit, just figure out which parts you need and get them. I have a very nice S5 housing (basically mint condition) that I can sell you for $50 plus shipping. (Mostly because I want to see the car on the road again, it is worth more than that). I would sell you a good rotor, but they are spoken for (going in my 4-port). I will give you one rotor worth of OEM Mazda seals (about 20,000 miles on them). I have not checked them for size, but I doubt they are out of spec. You can fix your old rotor if you are patient. I have seen guys rebuild a rotary with used hard seals and the original rotors (all the seal grooves will need to have the appropriate sized broach driven through them, and then checked for fitment very carefully). Many would disagree, but I think that using the original rotor (reshaped) is your best option. A gasket and soft seal kit will cost you about $150.00 on eBay. PM me if you are interested in the seals or the rotor. __________________ 1986 GXL ('87 4-port NA - Haltech E8, LS2 Coils. Defined Autoworks Headers, Dual 2.5" Exhaust (Dual Superflow, dBX mufflers) 1991 Coupe (KYB AGX Shocks, Eibach lowering springs, RB exhaust, Stock and Automatic)