Brake Issue

***Herblenny*** · 11-12-2009, 10:23 PM

Here is my issue today..

I was bleeding the brake (which I have done many many times) using my vacuum bleeding system.

I started off my bleeding the rear and than moved to the front. When I was bleeding the rear, I noticed that I was having hard time pulling the fluid. So, I got inside the car and push the pedal so that some fluid will be pushed into the vacuum pump. It worked and pulled about 1/4 quart of fluid. When I got to the front, I vacuumed up and no fluid was pulling. I then got inside the car and pressed the brake pedal and it just went all the way down without any resistant. I kept pumping and nothing. I took the front caliper bleeder valve and no liquid came out. Its not pulling any air nor fluid??

Any suggestion whats going on?? This car that I'm working on, brake fluid seems like it was never changed out.

As of now, I'm guessing it could be clogged front line somewhere or possible bad master cylinder.

***Herblenny*** · 11-12-2009, 10:45 PM

Another thing I was thinking was Brake Booster... or check valve for the brake booster.. Would this be the cause?

Garfinkles Motor Works · 11-13-2009, 05:42 AM

Make sure the rod from the ped to the booster has some play in the adjustment,1/8 inch .This is under the dash ,unlock the nut and turn the rod out .If there is no play the cylender piston may be covering the feed hole .

djmtsu · 11-13-2009, 07:59 AM

I had this problem with my 626 turbo.

Except I was using a pressure bleeder tank. The rears would not bleed out enough using just the bleeder. I had to use the old pedal pump method to finally get it right. It has worked fine on many other cars, but this one was a bitch!

***Herblenny*** · 11-13-2009, 08:22 AM

Well, I actually did the old pedal method also.

I think what I'm going to do is replace the lines and calipers and check out what Garfinkle mentioned.

djmtsu · 11-13-2009, 08:30 AM

Maybe I should try that too. I did replace the master cylinder, all hoses, and all 4 calipers.

I didn't check for any play in the pedal rod. Let me know how it goes!

***Herblenny*** · 11-13-2009, 08:52 AM

By the way, let me correct you all on which caliper you need to bleed first.. People always think its the longest distant from MC... But people don't think about the ABS.

Here is the correct order:

1. Passenger side Rear - Becuase the line goes to Driver rear side first and then to passenger rear. Hence being the longest line.
2. Driver side Rear - Next longest
3. Driver Front - next longest from ABS
4. and last Passenger Front.

If you think about it, the lines go from MC to ABS, than to the calipers. So, if you go by the actual distance that you think from MC, most people think you bleed the driver side last... thats incorrect (at least on 3rd gens).

Garfinkles Motor Works · 11-13-2009, 08:44 PM

[Pull the mc apart and check it out ,see if the seals are clean and not worn .Put in a rebuild kit if they sell one .If you need a mc call me , I am using one from a 929 and the old one worked .

***Herblenny*** · 11-14-2009, 10:04 PM

So, I worked on the FD today for like 4 hours.

I started off by re-bleeding the line by bleeding it from pre- caliper. Started this in the rear passenger - No prob. Rear driver side, no problem. Then front driver side and no fluid came out. I mean, very very little and completely no fluid came out of the line before the caliper.

Luckily friend of mine had a spare MC so I swapped it out.. After the swap, all the lines started to bleed. I've now swapped them with new SS lines and calipers from my MB before I went RZ calipers. Brake pedal feels slightly better but still not as firm as my MB. I think its still has some air in the system. I'm going to wait a month or two to bleed it again.

Garfinkles Motor Works · 11-21-2009, 08:03 PM

When you pump the ped the large air bubbles break into many small ones and are hard to remove .Open the valve and press the ped slowly to the floor and shut the valve .wait a few minuts and do it again .After bench bleeding the MC and hooking up all lines sometimes it works to open all valves at once and pump the ped to get fluid going to all the valves .I put a clear hose on each valve going up above the valve so the fluid will cover the valve and the air will travel up the tube and not let the air suck back down into the valve .

***Herblenny*** · 11-24-2009, 08:03 AM

Thanks David.. I'll try that method too.

but for mine, I used my vacuum pump. I've done this multiple times on multiple vehicles without an issue, except for this one. I'm just going to get the 929 MC and put that in... which I will send that to you.

PHIL

BigIslandSevens · 11-24-2009, 09:37 AM

This is the best way IMO to bleed all brake systems. I have yet to pony up and replace my Vaccum bleeder from snap-on but it is in the near future.

http://www.brakebleeder.com/index.ph...products_id=13

***Herblenny*** · 11-24-2009, 10:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigIslandSevens

This is the best way IMO to bleed all brake systems. I have yet to pony up and replace my Vaccum bleeder from snap-on but it is in the near future.

http://www.brakebleeder.com/index.ph...products_id=13

that looks very similar to my mityvac and brake fluid attachment.
When I check the max vacuum i could pull via mityvac was around 12-15in.

I use this one... bit bigger and this is what I been using for years. http://www.griotsgarage.com/product/...rrivals&page=1

I check the vacuum on this and its pulling over 25in of vacuum.

11-12-2009, 10:23 PM	#1
*Herblenny* Founder/Administrator/Internet Pitbull :) Join Date: Jan 2008 iTrader: (11) Posts: 644 Rep Power: 10	Brake Issue - No pressure on pedal. Here is my issue today.. I was bleeding the brake (which I have done many many times) using my vacuum bleeding system. I started off my bleeding the rear and than moved to the front. When I was bleeding the rear, I noticed that I was having hard time pulling the fluid. So, I got inside the car and push the pedal so that some fluid will be pushed into the vacuum pump. It worked and pulled about 1/4 quart of fluid. When I got to the front, I vacuumed up and no fluid was pulling. I then got inside the car and pressed the brake pedal and it just went all the way down without any resistant. I kept pumping and nothing. I took the front caliper bleeder valve and no liquid came out. Its not pulling any air nor fluid?? Any suggestion whats going on?? This car that I'm working on, brake fluid seems like it was never changed out. As of now, I'm guessing it could be clogged front line somewhere or possible bad master cylinder. __________________ DGRR 2013 - Year of 13B www.DealsGapRotaryRally.com http://www.facebook.com/Herblenny

11-12-2009, 10:45 PM	#2
*Herblenny* Founder/Administrator/Internet Pitbull :) Join Date: Jan 2008 iTrader: (11) Posts: 644 Rep Power: 10	Another thing I was thinking was Brake Booster... or check valve for the brake booster.. Would this be the cause? __________________ DGRR 2013 - Year of 13B www.DealsGapRotaryRally.com http://www.facebook.com/Herblenny

11-13-2009, 07:59 AM	#4
djmtsu My minds tellin' me no... Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Murfreesboro, TN iTrader: (10) Posts: 4,043 Rep Power: 21	I had this problem with my 626 turbo. Except I was using a pressure bleeder tank. The rears would not bleed out enough using just the bleeder. I had to use the old pedal pump method to finally get it right. It has worked fine on many other cars, but this one was a bitch! __________________ 1976 Mazda Cosmo RX-5 1976 Mazda Cosmo RX-5 2003 Toyota Tundra TRD 2015 Toyota 4Runner SR5

11-13-2009, 08:22 AM	#5
*Herblenny* Founder/Administrator/Internet Pitbull :) Join Date: Jan 2008 iTrader: (11) Posts: 644 Rep Power: 10	Well, I actually did the old pedal method also. I think what I'm going to do is replace the lines and calipers and check out what Garfinkle mentioned. __________________ DGRR 2013 - Year of 13B www.DealsGapRotaryRally.com http://www.facebook.com/Herblenny

11-13-2009, 08:30 AM	#6
djmtsu My minds tellin' me no... Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Murfreesboro, TN iTrader: (10) Posts: 4,043 Rep Power: 21	Maybe I should try that too. I did replace the master cylinder, all hoses, and all 4 calipers. I didn't check for any play in the pedal rod. Let me know how it goes! __________________ 1976 Mazda Cosmo RX-5 1976 Mazda Cosmo RX-5 2003 Toyota Tundra TRD 2015 Toyota 4Runner SR5

11-13-2009, 05:42 AM	#3
Garfinkles Motor Works RCC Contributor Join Date: Mar 2008 iTrader: (11) Posts: 535 Rep Power: 17	Make sure the rod from the ped to the booster has some play in the adjustment,1/8 inch .This is under the dash ,unlock the nut and turn the rod out .If there is no play the cylender piston may be covering the feed hole .

11-13-2009, 08:52 AM	#7
*Herblenny* Founder/Administrator/Internet Pitbull :) Join Date: Jan 2008 iTrader: (11) Posts: 644 Rep Power: 10	By the way, let me correct you all on which caliper you need to bleed first.. People always think its the longest distant from MC... But people don't think about the ABS. Here is the correct order: 1. Passenger side Rear - Becuase the line goes to Driver rear side first and then to passenger rear. Hence being the longest line. 2. Driver side Rear - Next longest 3. Driver Front - next longest from ABS 4. and last Passenger Front. If you think about it, the lines go from MC to ABS, than to the calipers. So, if you go by the actual distance that you think from MC, most people think you bleed the driver side last... thats incorrect (at least on 3rd gens). __________________ DGRR 2013 - Year of 13B www.DealsGapRotaryRally.com http://www.facebook.com/Herblenny

11-13-2009, 08:44 PM	#8
Garfinkles Motor Works RCC Contributor Join Date: Mar 2008 iTrader: (11) Posts: 535 Rep Power: 17	[Pull the mc apart and check it out ,see if the seals are clean and not worn .Put in a rebuild kit if they sell one .If you need a mc call me , I am using one from a 929 and the old one worked .

11-14-2009, 10:04 PM	#9
*Herblenny* Founder/Administrator/Internet Pitbull :) Join Date: Jan 2008 iTrader: (11) Posts: 644 Rep Power: 10	So, I worked on the FD today for like 4 hours. I started off by re-bleeding the line by bleeding it from pre- caliper. Started this in the rear passenger - No prob. Rear driver side, no problem. Then front driver side and no fluid came out. I mean, very very little and completely no fluid came out of the line before the caliper. Luckily friend of mine had a spare MC so I swapped it out.. After the swap, all the lines started to bleed. I've now swapped them with new SS lines and calipers from my MB before I went RZ calipers. Brake pedal feels slightly better but still not as firm as my MB. I think its still has some air in the system. I'm going to wait a month or two to bleed it again. __________________ DGRR 2013 - Year of 13B www.DealsGapRotaryRally.com http://www.facebook.com/Herblenny

11-21-2009, 08:03 PM	#10
Garfinkles Motor Works RCC Contributor Join Date: Mar 2008 iTrader: (11) Posts: 535 Rep Power: 17	When you pump the ped the large air bubbles break into many small ones and are hard to remove .Open the valve and press the ped slowly to the floor and shut the valve .wait a few minuts and do it again .After bench bleeding the MC and hooking up all lines sometimes it works to open all valves at once and pump the ped to get fluid going to all the valves .I put a clear hose on each valve going up above the valve so the fluid will cover the valve and the air will travel up the tube and not let the air suck back down into the valve .

11-24-2009, 08:03 AM	#11
*Herblenny* Founder/Administrator/Internet Pitbull :) Join Date: Jan 2008 iTrader: (11) Posts: 644 Rep Power: 10	Thanks David.. I'll try that method too. but for mine, I used my vacuum pump. I've done this multiple times on multiple vehicles without an issue, except for this one. I'm just going to get the 929 MC and put that in... which I will send that to you. PHIL __________________ DGRR 2013 - Year of 13B www.DealsGapRotaryRally.com http://www.facebook.com/Herblenny

11-24-2009, 09:37 AM	#12
BigIslandSevens Rotary Fanatic Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Denver, NC iTrader: (0) Posts: 201 Rep Power: 17	This is the best way IMO to bleed all brake systems. I have yet to pony up and replace my Vaccum bleeder from snap-on but it is in the near future. http://www.brakebleeder.com/index.ph...products_id=13