Flooding and more of it...

Rotary#10 · 05-09-2009, 06:47 PM

I am being to think my compression is low my motor and its flooded right now.
- the injectors were cleaned... but before that they dripped at least 2 of them did. What ways, tools, aftermarket parts ecu's etc prevent flooding? What can I do to test my compression ? is there an easy and hard way? What else can I do to prevent flooding again? i read folks wire in a switch to turn on the fuel pump. Yes I know it a getto rigged. but Im willing to try it until i've saved up money to rebuild it.

* my dads getting on me that my 7 is junk and that I should junk it. LOL! I finish what I start, No matter what it is IM set out to do. Working on this FC, maintaining it, repairing it, really taught me alot about cars. Its all a learning experience to me, so to say*

djmtsu · 05-10-2009, 08:29 AM

On an S5 (like yours) you press the gas pedal all the way to the floor while starting the car to disable the fuel injection. So you don't need a switch.

Rotary#10 · 05-11-2009, 10:43 PM

thanks for the info I checked a few things on the web and on the car.
im drawing up a conclusion that what happened was on the way back from san jose. Trailing coil, omp go out, so does compression on the motor not perment hence flooding. But the car still can run on leading plugs when I made it home. turned the car off and pulled codes, omp and trailing etc. To make things worst trailing side wasn't burning gas so it was inevitable flooding would occur, on top of that 2 leaking injectors and thru the attempts of cranking over the car and starting it.. it would not start all becuase of too much gas in the oil. Even though it does smell like oil with gas. therefore i need to change the oil...

does that sound reasonable why the car wouldn't start?

TehMonkay · 05-12-2009, 11:59 AM

Gas in the oil wont keep it from starting but i would change the oil anyways. Trailing plugs are for fuel efficiency pretty much and omp would just put it in limp mode it should still start.

rx4ur7 · 05-12-2009, 01:56 PM

Quick and dirty comp test is if it will blow your finger off the holes and you have good equal pulses it should be good enough to start.

If it isn't cranking fast enough and you have under 10v whilst cranking then you will have starting problems. Under 10v can cause ignition issues. At 9.5V or less you probably will not have any spark to speak of.

Fresh battery, good terminal connections, good grounds, Low starter draw. What I have found with the FC if any of these are marginal or not 100% there will usually be starting issues.

One of the reasons I prefer mazda starters, have seen too many rebuilts that were causing starting problems. Of the hundreds of starters or alternators I have replaced I have only had 2 Mazda's go bad (1 alt 1 starter) and they failed in the first week. Most aftermarket rebuilds have great warranties but I don't warranty my labor for something that I have to replace once a year. Yes Mazda cost more but you will never have to worry about it again. If I replace something I don't want to see the vehicle again for that issue. One of those pay me once now or pay me a bunch of times later. Which always ends up costing more because it ends up with the mazda part.

Mazda says that they are reconditioned. I have taken them apart and darned if I could find anything used. All of the internals were new. Mitsubishi Electronics supplies the new and reconditioned.

Caim · 05-12-2009, 02:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rx4ur7

Quick and dirty comp test is if it will blow your finger off the holes and you have good equal pulses it should be good enough to start.

If it isn't cranking fast enough and you have under 10v whilst cranking then you will have starting problems. Under 10v can cause ignition issues. At 9.5V or less you probably will not have any spark to speak of.

Fresh battery, good terminal connections, good grounds, Low starter draw. What I have found with the FC if any of these are marginal or not 100% there will usually be starting issues.

One of the reasons I prefer mazda starters, have seen too many rebuilts that were causing starting problems. Of the hundreds of starters or alternators I have replaced I have only had 2 Mazda's go bad (1 alt 1 starter) and they failed in the first week. Most aftermarket rebuilds have great warranties but I don't warranty my labor for something that I have to replace once a year. Yes Mazda cost more but you will never have to worry about it again. If I replace something I don't want to see the vehicle again for that issue. One of those pay me once now or pay me a bunch of times later. Which always ends up costing more because it ends up with the mazda part.

Mazda says that they are reconditioned. I have taken them apart and darned if I could find anything used. All of the internals were new. Mitsubishi Electronics supplies the new and reconditioned.

This man said exacly what i was waiting to type hahaha. Follow this for sure.

Rotary#10 · 05-14-2009, 03:34 PM

umm its not cranking at all now. My battery is at 12.75 volts.
whats a easy way to check if the starter is dead?

Caim · 05-14-2009, 04:00 PM

Well get under it and get a muti meter and check to see if the starter is geting the right voltage when you turn the key. If it is... then starter would be the problem.

Rotary#10 · 05-14-2009, 08:28 PM

its werid im not getting any voltage at all. i slipped up the knob on my voltage meter and it went to the continuity and it made a "sound indiating that the circuit is open and has less than a resistance of 30." thats from the opertating manual for the voltage meter.
-Do you think the starter wiring is toast?
i remember a few days ago after the car wouldn't start i was cleaning all the grounds I could find. I attempted to start the car but forgot to bolt down the strut tower/ (starter ground?) Do you think I toasted it then... Im pretty sure the starter should be bad since it cranked really sloww and doesn't want to turn over due to previous experience with my old supra. It the supra would crank really slow but catch after a few tries.

vex · 05-14-2009, 08:48 PM

There is no strut tower ground. Unless you're talking about the grounds that connect like a four prong plug? The ground for the starter is actually on the back side of the starter, or at least should be. No ground connects to the starter itself (it should ground out to the engine block)

Rotary#10 · 05-14-2009, 08:55 PM

im talking about the ground thats at the bottom of the strut tower and im pretty sure there is a ground there too. Its like T shaped but upside down.

this bolts to the strut tower / car

I
I
this to Neg. battery ___L___ this connects to the front of the motor on a long bolt

its copper colored too. thats not a ground ?

Phoenix7 · 05-14-2009, 09:44 PM

so what happened? is the wiring ok?

Rotary#10 · 05-19-2009, 12:37 PM

sorry haven't replied lately..
i tested the battery with a voltage meter with the ign. in the on position and its a 12.45V and with the key in the off position its 12.74 volts. I can't imagine what the volts on the battery would be when cranking..
I took some pics of the ground on the strut tower and on the motor block.
Are they supposed to be exposed as they are in the pic ?

This is the one on the engine

This is the one that mounts to the shock tower wall

rx4ur7 · 05-19-2009, 12:56 PM

Yes, Those are factory original connectors. Although they sure look like FD3S?? It is a better set up because you are grounding battery, chassis and motor with one wire. Better than just the two on the motor that are stock.

Just make sure both they and mount points are clean.

Use some electrical paste to help to keep corrosion from forming. I've been using Wurth CU 800 for years.

To test for cranking voltage just hook you meter up to the battery and watch it while you turn the key.

Rotary#10 · 05-19-2009, 03:08 PM

hey checking the ign switch again and there is no continuity on Start position between B - IG1 also on ST-L-E-K1-K2.
On all the other terminals and position laid out in the FSM they have continuity but the start position and the terminals. Would that explain why it wouldn't crank?

05-10-2009, 08:29 AM	#2
djmtsu My minds tellin' me no... Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Murfreesboro, TN iTrader: (10) Posts: 4,043 Rep Power: 21	On an S5 (like yours) you press the gas pedal all the way to the floor while starting the car to disable the fuel injection. So you don't need a switch. __________________ 1976 Mazda Cosmo RX-5 1976 Mazda Cosmo RX-5 2003 Toyota Tundra TRD 2015 Toyota 4Runner SR5

05-11-2009, 10:43 PM	#3
Rotary#10 Rotorhead Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: "the town " Oakland iTrader: (1) Posts: 219 Rep Power: 17	thanks for the info I checked a few things on the web and on the car. im drawing up a conclusion that what happened was on the way back from san jose. Trailing coil, omp go out, so does compression on the motor not perment hence flooding. But the car still can run on leading plugs when I made it home. turned the car off and pulled codes, omp and trailing etc. To make things worst trailing side wasn't burning gas so it was inevitable flooding would occur, on top of that 2 leaking injectors and thru the attempts of cranking over the car and starting it.. it would not start all becuase of too much gas in the oil. Even though it does smell like oil with gas. therefore i need to change the oil... does that sound reasonable why the car wouldn't start? __________________ Currently running: 90 GTUs converted to S5 TurboII. Track car. 90 N/A GTUs.. Running project car 89 N/A GTUs in Black #2 10/6/18 Blown coolant seal undergoing rebuild and restomod.

05-12-2009, 11:59 AM	#4
TehMonkay Rotary Fanatic Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Louisville, KY iTrader: (0) Posts: 302 Rep Power: 17	Gas in the oil wont keep it from starting but i would change the oil anyways. Trailing plugs are for fuel efficiency pretty much and omp would just put it in limp mode it should still start. __________________ My car blows up everytime I start it, it's rotary

05-14-2009, 03:34 PM	#7
Rotary#10 Rotorhead Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: "the town " Oakland iTrader: (1) Posts: 219 Rep Power: 17	umm its not cranking at all now. My battery is at 12.75 volts. whats a easy way to check if the starter is dead? __________________ Currently running: 90 GTUs converted to S5 TurboII. Track car. 90 N/A GTUs.. Running project car 89 N/A GTUs in Black #2 10/6/18 Blown coolant seal undergoing rebuild and restomod.

05-14-2009, 04:00 PM	#8
Caim Rotary Fan in Training Join Date: Feb 2009 iTrader: (0) Posts: 93 Rep Power: 16	Well get under it and get a muti meter and check to see if the starter is geting the right voltage when you turn the key. If it is... then starter would be the problem. __________________

05-09-2009, 06:47 PM	#1
Rotary#10 Rotorhead Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: "the town " Oakland iTrader: (1) Posts: 219 Rep Power: 17	Flooding and more of it... I am being to think my compression is low my motor and its flooded right now. - the injectors were cleaned... but before that they dripped at least 2 of them did. What ways, tools, aftermarket parts ecu's etc prevent flooding? What can I do to test my compression ? is there an easy and hard way? What else can I do to prevent flooding again? i read folks wire in a switch to turn on the fuel pump. Yes I know it a getto rigged. but Im willing to try it until i've saved up money to rebuild it. * my dads getting on me that my 7 is junk and that I should junk it. LOL! I finish what I start, No matter what it is IM set out to do. Working on this FC, maintaining it, repairing it, really taught me alot about cars. Its all a learning experience to me, so to say* __________________ Currently running: 90 GTUs converted to S5 TurboII. Track car. 90 N/A GTUs.. Running project car 89 N/A GTUs in Black #2 10/6/18 Blown coolant seal undergoing rebuild and restomod.

05-12-2009, 01:56 PM	#5
rx4ur7 Rotary since 1972 Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Tucson iTrader: (0) Posts: 231 Rep Power: 17	Quick and dirty comp test is if it will blow your finger off the holes and you have good equal pulses it should be good enough to start. If it isn't cranking fast enough and you have under 10v whilst cranking then you will have starting problems. Under 10v can cause ignition issues. At 9.5V or less you probably will not have any spark to speak of. Fresh battery, good terminal connections, good grounds, Low starter draw. What I have found with the FC if any of these are marginal or not 100% there will usually be starting issues. One of the reasons I prefer mazda starters, have seen too many rebuilts that were causing starting problems. Of the hundreds of starters or alternators I have replaced I have only had 2 Mazda's go bad (1 alt 1 starter) and they failed in the first week. Most aftermarket rebuilds have great warranties but I don't warranty my labor for something that I have to replace once a year. Yes Mazda cost more but you will never have to worry about it again. If I replace something I don't want to see the vehicle again for that issue. One of those pay me once now or pay me a bunch of times later. Which always ends up costing more because it ends up with the mazda part. Mazda says that they are reconditioned. I have taken them apart and darned if I could find anything used. All of the internals were new. Mitsubishi Electronics supplies the new and reconditioned.

05-14-2009, 08:28 PM	#9
Rotary#10 Rotorhead Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: "the town " Oakland iTrader: (1) Posts: 219 Rep Power: 17	its werid im not getting any voltage at all. i slipped up the knob on my voltage meter and it went to the continuity and it made a "sound indiating that the circuit is open and has less than a resistance of 30." thats from the opertating manual for the voltage meter. -Do you think the starter wiring is toast? i remember a few days ago after the car wouldn't start i was cleaning all the grounds I could find. I attempted to start the car but forgot to bolt down the strut tower/ (starter ground?) Do you think I toasted it then... Im pretty sure the starter should be bad since it cranked really sloww and doesn't want to turn over due to previous experience with my old supra. It the supra would crank really slow but catch after a few tries. __________________ Currently running: 90 GTUs converted to S5 TurboII. Track car. 90 N/A GTUs.. Running project car 89 N/A GTUs in Black #2 10/6/18 Blown coolant seal undergoing rebuild and restomod. Last edited by Rotary#10; 05-14-2009 at 08:33 PM.. Reason: d'oh and remembered one thing

05-14-2009, 08:48 PM	#10
vex RCC Loves Me Not You Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Influx. iTrader: (6) Posts: 2,113 Rep Power: 19	There is no strut tower ground. Unless you're talking about the grounds that connect like a four prong plug? The ground for the starter is actually on the back side of the starter, or at least should be. No ground connects to the starter itself (it should ground out to the engine block) __________________ The Official FC Radiator Thread My Project Thread: Cerberus CCVT Virginia Rotary Group

05-14-2009, 08:55 PM	#11
Rotary#10 Rotorhead Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: "the town " Oakland iTrader: (1) Posts: 219 Rep Power: 17	im talking about the ground thats at the bottom of the strut tower and im pretty sure there is a ground there too. Its like T shaped but upside down. this bolts to the strut tower / car I I this to Neg. battery ___L___ this connects to the front of the motor on a long bolt its copper colored too. thats not a ground ? __________________ Currently running: 90 GTUs converted to S5 TurboII. Track car. 90 N/A GTUs.. Running project car 89 N/A GTUs in Black #2 10/6/18 Blown coolant seal undergoing rebuild and restomod. Last edited by Rotary#10; 05-14-2009 at 08:56 PM.. Reason: D'OH

05-19-2009, 12:37 PM	#13
Rotary#10 Rotorhead Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: "the town " Oakland iTrader: (1) Posts: 219 Rep Power: 17	sorry haven't replied lately.. i tested the battery with a voltage meter with the ign. in the on position and its a 12.45V and with the key in the off position its 12.74 volts. I can't imagine what the volts on the battery would be when cranking.. I took some pics of the ground on the strut tower and on the motor block. Are they supposed to be exposed as they are in the pic ? This is the one on the engine This is the one that mounts to the shock tower wall __________________ Currently running: 90 GTUs converted to S5 TurboII. Track car. 90 N/A GTUs.. Running project car 89 N/A GTUs in Black #2 10/6/18 Blown coolant seal undergoing rebuild and restomod. Last edited by Rotary#10; 05-19-2009 at 12:41 PM.. Reason: Do'h forgot pics!

05-19-2009, 12:56 PM	#14
rx4ur7 Rotary since 1972 Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Tucson iTrader: (0) Posts: 231 Rep Power: 17	Yes, Those are factory original connectors. Although they sure look like FD3S?? It is a better set up because you are grounding battery, chassis and motor with one wire. Better than just the two on the motor that are stock. Just make sure both they and mount points are clean. Use some electrical paste to help to keep corrosion from forming. I've been using Wurth CU 800 for years. To test for cranking voltage just hook you meter up to the battery and watch it while you turn the key. Last edited by rx4ur7; 05-19-2009 at 01:30 PM..

05-19-2009, 03:08 PM	#15
Rotary#10 Rotorhead Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: "the town " Oakland iTrader: (1) Posts: 219 Rep Power: 17	hey checking the ign switch again and there is no continuity on Start position between B - IG1 also on ST-L-E-K1-K2. On all the other terminals and position laid out in the FSM they have continuity but the start position and the terminals. Would that explain why it wouldn't crank? __________________ Currently running: 90 GTUs converted to S5 TurboII. Track car. 90 N/A GTUs.. Running project car 89 N/A GTUs in Black #2 10/6/18 Blown coolant seal undergoing rebuild and restomod.