Need some help deciding on a summer / autocross / lapping tire!

Heeley · 05-04-2009, 11:47 AM

Hi guys,

I'm looking around at different summer tires, and I need a little advice. These are to go on my '93 R1.

I don't think i'm at the point where i want to be buying a set of dedicated track wheels/tires so I want something that's good on the street (liveable ride, good enough wear to get a couple of summers out of them), and going to be fun for autocross and maybe the odd lapping day. Here's what i'm looking at:

Falken Azenis RT615

Dunlop Direzza Z1 Star Spec

Nitto NT05 - I'd have to come across to the U.S. to pick these up as they are apparantly not available in Canada.

Budget choice: BFGoodrich G-Force Sport

If you own or have owned any of these tires, feedback on treadwear would be great. If i'm going to spend the $$$, i'd like them to hold up somewhat well to street driving. I do about 10,000 miles each year.

Mobius · 05-04-2009, 04:21 PM

The only tire's I've run out of that group are the RT615's.

I managed about 4000 km of hard driving before they were done, front and rear.

I did make it to one road course type event with them. Each run consisted of 6 consecutive laps (about one minute each). Laps one and two were slippery while the tires heated, three and four were quite nice, but by halfway through lap 5 (5 minutes or less of hard driving) they would get greasy.

P71 · 05-04-2009, 04:49 PM

The G-Force Sports are not in the same category as the other 3.

I personally have the Azenis Rt615's on my RX-7 and I think they are wonderful for street driving and autocrossing. I have beaten similar cars on slicks with them.

The Nitto's are not worth it.

You may want to take a look at the Kuhmo ECSTA XS as well.

Heeley · 05-04-2009, 07:30 PM

I know the GForce sports aren't really in the same class of tire, but they would be more of a budget approach. I more or less threw them in there as an example of a harder compound street tire that would last on the street, but might still be a fun tire for autocross. I'm pretty sure they get used as a spec tire for various car control schools... i think the skip barber school uses them, but that might just be because they're predictable and cheap.

Good call on the Ecsta XS though. I'll have to check those out for the money

josh18_2k · 05-04-2009, 08:35 PM

star specs own the world at the moment.
the fastest street tire is probably advan neova, but they cost way too damn much

when in doubt, see what tire national champ STU/X guys run (they have a minimum 180 treadwear)

85rx-7gsl-se · 05-04-2009, 09:14 PM

Star Specs are badass. Just them and some Kosei K1's on his stock suspension Miata made a world of difference.

staticpat · 05-05-2009, 09:44 AM

Star specs!

Rogue_Wulff · 05-05-2009, 12:48 PM

The Z1 Star Spec is the quickest of the lot, when it comes to street tire classes (treadware 140 minimum). They aren't as widely available as the RT-615 (sizes).
The RT-615 has been around for a few years (2005 introduction) and has been the tire all others have been measured against, for grip and longevity.
The new Kumho XS seems to be in the same grip level, but lifespan and grip towards the end of life are still uncertain at this point, since it's such a new model.

The one thing that the RT-615 has going for it, while the intial grip isn't quite as high as some of the newer models, it doesn't seem to fall off as bad as some of the others.
They do take a bit longer to get fully up to temp than a few others, but in the end, the heat cycling doesn't affect them quite as bad.
When new, there are tires that are faster the the RT615, but towards the end, those same tires struggle to keep up with like-worn RT615's.
All street tires will get greasy when hot, that's unavoidable without killing overall lifespan.
The RT615 is also usually at the lower end of the pricing scale, making them a good choice for all-around use, particularly for those on a budget.

P71 · 05-05-2009, 01:14 PM

Uh fellas, the Star Spec lost the latest GRM ST-Class tire test, badly. Even the old RT615's beat them.

The XS is the new fast king, the RE11 is right there as well, and the RS2/3 and the Rt615 are fighting for fastest for cheapest. The Rt is still the longest lasting and has best grip at end of lifespan. They're also cheap and come in 14" sizes, which most of the others don't.

Rogue_Wulff · 05-05-2009, 01:38 PM

Yeah, the RT615 having a 14 and 15 offering is certainly advantagous for us old schoolers. Many of the newer street tire class contenders totally ignore 14", and miss the mark on the 15" by offering a 195/55-15 instead of a 205/50-15. The 195/55 is a bit narrower and taller than the 205/50.
I just ordered a new set of wheels to fit my '83, and will be tossing a set of old RT615's on them to finish off. I may step up to actual r-comps, or stick with the RT615 for the next set of race rubber. The RT615 can be driven to/from events a little easier than R-comps. Too risky when it comes to punctures.

85rx-7gsl-se · 05-05-2009, 04:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by P71

Uh fellas, the Star Spec lost the latest GRM ST-Class tire test, badly. Even the old RT615's beat them.

The XS is the new fast king, the RE11 is right there as well, and the RS2/3 and the Rt615 are fighting for fastest for cheapest. The Rt is still the longest lasting and has best grip at end of lifespan. They're also cheap and come in 14" sizes, which most of the others don't.

Well I have heard nothing but good things outta the Star Specs. My buddy has RT-615s on his 240SX and they are alright to me, but nothing special. The Star Specs will pick up leaves fresh off the truck with no heat in them

Turbo II · 05-05-2009, 09:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by P71

Uh fellas, the Star Spec lost the latest GRM ST-Class tire test, badly. Even the old RT615's beat them. The XS is the new fast king, the RE11 is right there as well, and the RS2/3 and the Rt615 are fighting for fastest for cheapest. The Rt is still the longest lasting and has best grip at end of lifespan

I heard the same from a friend who was talking about it elsewhere. We're both running the RT615s.

Quote:

GRM June 09 issue. The Kumho XS seems to be the king. The Kumhos were about 1 sec faster. 34.x versus the Falken at 35.x.

P71 · 05-05-2009, 10:01 PM

Gotta read the article, when they re-ran the Rt's they went 34.x's as well

Heeley · 05-05-2009, 10:08 PM

what's the lifespan going to be like if i run the rt615's on the street? approx. mileage?

Rogue_Wulff · 05-05-2009, 11:11 PM

Average life on the street can be anywhere from 3K to 20K. It all depends on how much fun you have in the meantime.
I know people that have gotten well over 100 autox runs out of a set, and others that are lucky to get 50. The power and weight of the car, along with driving habits, have a lot to do with how long they will last.

05-04-2009, 11:47 AM	#1
Heeley Rotary Fan in Training Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Snowbelt, Ontario! iTrader: (0) Posts: 57 Rep Power: 17	Need some help deciding on a summer / autocross / lapping tire! Hi guys, I'm looking around at different summer tires, and I need a little advice. These are to go on my '93 R1. I don't think i'm at the point where i want to be buying a set of dedicated track wheels/tires so I want something that's good on the street (liveable ride, good enough wear to get a couple of summers out of them), and going to be fun for autocross and maybe the odd lapping day. Here's what i'm looking at: Falken Azenis RT615 Dunlop Direzza Z1 Star Spec Nitto NT05 - I'd have to come across to the U.S. to pick these up as they are apparantly not available in Canada. Budget choice: BFGoodrich G-Force Sport If you own or have owned any of these tires, feedback on treadwear would be great. If i'm going to spend the $$$, i'd like them to hold up somewhat well to street driving. I do about 10,000 miles each year.

05-04-2009, 04:21 PM	#2
Mobius Rotorhead Join Date: May 2008 Location: Drumheller, Alberta iTrader: (1) Posts: 164 Rep Power: 17	The only tire's I've run out of that group are the RT615's. I managed about 4000 km of hard driving before they were done, front and rear. I did make it to one road course type event with them. Each run consisted of 6 consecutive laps (about one minute each). Laps one and two were slippery while the tires heated, three and four were quite nice, but by halfway through lap 5 (5 minutes or less of hard driving) they would get greasy. __________________ \|\|\| Never argue with idiots. They will bring you down to their level and beat you with experience. \|\|\|

05-04-2009, 04:49 PM	#3
P71 RCC Contributor Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: WA State iTrader: (1) Posts: 651 Rep Power: 17	The G-Force Sports are not in the same category as the other 3. I personally have the Azenis Rt615's on my RX-7 and I think they are wonderful for street driving and autocrossing. I have beaten similar cars on slicks with them. The Nitto's are not worth it. You may want to take a look at the Kuhmo ECSTA XS as well. __________________ Michael Pinto 2008 PDXCGP Drag Racing Season Champion 83 RX-7 GSL; 12A/5-Speed, Red/Red; 100% Stock - 16.072@83.39 01 CV Police Interceptor; 4.6 SOHC V8/4R70W, Dk Blue/Grey; K&N FIPK/RP Oil/Optima/Superchips/Flowmaster 40's/2.5" cat-back - 14.854@92.37 Read my Rx-7 Build Thread! http://rotarycarclub.com/rotary_foru...ed=1#post70955 Get on the new RCC 1/4 Mile ET List! http://www.rotarycarclub.com/rotary_...read.php?t=368 Vote for the ROTM! http://rotarycarclub.com/rotary_foru...play.php?f=125

05-04-2009, 08:35 PM	#5
josh18_2k Rotary Fanatic Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Gresham, OR iTrader: (0) Posts: 473 Rep Power: 17	star specs own the world at the moment. the fastest street tire is probably advan neova, but they cost way too damn much when in doubt, see what tire national champ STU/X guys run (they have a minimum 180 treadwear) __________________

05-05-2009, 09:44 AM	#7
staticpat Rally Fanboy Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: New York iTrader: (1) Posts: 147 Rep Power: 17	Star specs! __________________

05-04-2009, 07:30 PM	#4
Heeley Rotary Fan in Training Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Snowbelt, Ontario! iTrader: (0) Posts: 57 Rep Power: 17	I know the GForce sports aren't really in the same class of tire, but they would be more of a budget approach. I more or less threw them in there as an example of a harder compound street tire that would last on the street, but might still be a fun tire for autocross. I'm pretty sure they get used as a spec tire for various car control schools... i think the skip barber school uses them, but that might just be because they're predictable and cheap. Good call on the Ecsta XS though. I'll have to check those out for the money

05-05-2009, 12:48 PM	#8
Rogue_Wulff Non Member Join Date: Jun 2008 iTrader: (0) Posts: 310 Rep Power: 17	The Z1 Star Spec is the quickest of the lot, when it comes to street tire classes (treadware 140 minimum). They aren't as widely available as the RT-615 (sizes). The RT-615 has been around for a few years (2005 introduction) and has been the tire all others have been measured against, for grip and longevity. The new Kumho XS seems to be in the same grip level, but lifespan and grip towards the end of life are still uncertain at this point, since it's such a new model. The one thing that the RT-615 has going for it, while the intial grip isn't quite as high as some of the newer models, it doesn't seem to fall off as bad as some of the others. They do take a bit longer to get fully up to temp than a few others, but in the end, the heat cycling doesn't affect them quite as bad. When new, there are tires that are faster the the RT615, but towards the end, those same tires struggle to keep up with like-worn RT615's. All street tires will get greasy when hot, that's unavoidable without killing overall lifespan. The RT615 is also usually at the lower end of the pricing scale, making them a good choice for all-around use, particularly for those on a budget.

05-05-2009, 01:14 PM	#9
P71 RCC Contributor Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: WA State iTrader: (1) Posts: 651 Rep Power: 17	Uh fellas, the Star Spec lost the latest GRM ST-Class tire test, badly. Even the old RT615's beat them. The XS is the new fast king, the RE11 is right there as well, and the RS2/3 and the Rt615 are fighting for fastest for cheapest. The Rt is still the longest lasting and has best grip at end of lifespan. They're also cheap and come in 14" sizes, which most of the others don't. __________________ Michael Pinto 2008 PDXCGP Drag Racing Season Champion 83 RX-7 GSL; 12A/5-Speed, Red/Red; 100% Stock - 16.072@83.39 01 CV Police Interceptor; 4.6 SOHC V8/4R70W, Dk Blue/Grey; K&N FIPK/RP Oil/Optima/Superchips/Flowmaster 40's/2.5" cat-back - 14.854@92.37 Read my Rx-7 Build Thread! http://rotarycarclub.com/rotary_foru...ed=1#post70955 Get on the new RCC 1/4 Mile ET List! http://www.rotarycarclub.com/rotary_...read.php?t=368 Vote for the ROTM! http://rotarycarclub.com/rotary_foru...play.php?f=125

05-05-2009, 01:38 PM	#10
Rogue_Wulff Non Member Join Date: Jun 2008 iTrader: (0) Posts: 310 Rep Power: 17	Yeah, the RT615 having a 14 and 15 offering is certainly advantagous for us old schoolers. Many of the newer street tire class contenders totally ignore 14", and miss the mark on the 15" by offering a 195/55-15 instead of a 205/50-15. The 195/55 is a bit narrower and taller than the 205/50. I just ordered a new set of wheels to fit my '83, and will be tossing a set of old RT615's on them to finish off. I may step up to actual r-comps, or stick with the RT615 for the next set of race rubber. The RT615 can be driven to/from events a little easier than R-comps. Too risky when it comes to punctures.

05-05-2009, 10:01 PM	#13
P71 RCC Contributor Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: WA State iTrader: (1) Posts: 651 Rep Power: 17	Gotta read the article, when they re-ran the Rt's they went 34.x's as well __________________ Michael Pinto 2008 PDXCGP Drag Racing Season Champion 83 RX-7 GSL; 12A/5-Speed, Red/Red; 100% Stock - 16.072@83.39 01 CV Police Interceptor; 4.6 SOHC V8/4R70W, Dk Blue/Grey; K&N FIPK/RP Oil/Optima/Superchips/Flowmaster 40's/2.5" cat-back - 14.854@92.37 Read my Rx-7 Build Thread! http://rotarycarclub.com/rotary_foru...ed=1#post70955 Get on the new RCC 1/4 Mile ET List! http://www.rotarycarclub.com/rotary_...read.php?t=368 Vote for the ROTM! http://rotarycarclub.com/rotary_foru...play.php?f=125

05-05-2009, 10:08 PM	#14
Heeley Rotary Fan in Training Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Snowbelt, Ontario! iTrader: (0) Posts: 57 Rep Power: 17	what's the lifespan going to be like if i run the rt615's on the street? approx. mileage?

05-05-2009, 11:11 PM	#15
Rogue_Wulff Non Member Join Date: Jun 2008 iTrader: (0) Posts: 310 Rep Power: 17	Average life on the street can be anywhere from 3K to 20K. It all depends on how much fun you have in the meantime. I know people that have gotten well over 100 autox runs out of a set, and others that are lucky to get 50. The power and weight of the car, along with driving habits, have a lot to do with how long they will last.