20b advice

warwickben · 07-10-2008, 07:05 PM

hey guys, iam really thinking about trying to find a 20b and trans to put in to my sa. if i do, do it id go na at frist.

i was wondering what i would have to do to put a carb on it. i know different custom intake but besides that what would i have to do to the motor to run it with out a ecu. i know it mite sound silly but iam a 12a guy.

***Herblenny*** · 07-14-2008, 03:58 PM

There is quite a bit for you to run it carb'd... First, you would have to rebuild the engine and use higher compression rotors... Then track down a distributor for 20B (kind of hard)... Then setting up the 3 rotor carb..

I'm guessing around 5k-10K job.

jtbshaw · 07-16-2008, 12:30 AM

Twin Weber IDAs FTW!

warwickben · 07-16-2008, 06:04 PM

i was going to boost it if i did go with a 20b.

but my main thing i could not get my head around was the distributor. i wish i new about ecu's ect other wise id go that way.

heck i wish i could find a place that sells the motor, trans, ecu ect in stead of having to buy a whole clip id just run that stock in my sa till i learned how to tune a ecu. all i have been able to find on the net is complete motors and trans without the ecu or complete front clips with the ecu

nolimitind i would probably do that or twin o.e.r side drafts.

jtbshaw · 07-16-2008, 06:21 PM

There were two complete units for sale on ebay today for $4500.....like this one:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Parts...3286.m14.l1318

jtbshaw · 07-16-2008, 06:25 PM

Here's the other one:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Parts...3286.m14.l1318

warwickben · 07-16-2008, 06:50 PM

thanks, ok ok you guys are twisting my arm now making me want to go 20b lol.

i guess ill just save up and do it. keep it stock till i under stand tunning. heck even if i went with turboing my 12a or a TII swap it would cost me about the same.

***Herblenny*** · 07-16-2008, 10:08 PM

Ok, you start the thread with this

Quote:

Originally Posted by warwickben

hey guys, iam really thinking about trying to find a 20b and trans to put in to my sa. if i do, do it id go na at frist.

Now you say this??

Quote:

Originally Posted by warwickben

i was going to boost it if i did go with a 20b.

20B project isn't for someone with light pocket.. Trust me, I have 2 of them and to do it right, I'm planning to drop some serious money. Not only that, I been talking and searching for past 2-3 years. I'm finally getting the short block completely built this summer/fall... if I'm lucky.

This is what I say to people... And i'm sure others might agree... Think about why you want to do this.. If your goal is street drive your car and make 300-400, then save your money and spend it somewhere else... If you tried different things and now 20B is the only thing left for you to do, GO for it!! Drop some serious cash and do it right.... Otherwise, its not worth tempting.... there are far better ways to spend your money then on 20B and half ass build it so you could say you have a 3 rotor in it..

85rx-7gsl-se · 07-16-2008, 10:23 PM

In others words, if you have to ask how much it costs to do a 20B right, you can't afford it

jtbshaw · 07-17-2008, 09:38 AM

Well said, 85SE!

Phil is right. In my case, I've been working on these things since the mid 80s. I've had every combination of 12As and 13Bs, except a peripheral port. I've wanted to go 20B for a while now, and Phil can even vouch for me on that. I began talking with him over 2 years ago about a 3 rotor setup and I still haven't pulled the trigger on the project yet. A 3 rotor setup is a huge undertaking, especially if you don't understand how everything works with each other (and part of that is tuning).

As Phil also mentioned, you may want to go a different route. You stated that for about the same $$$ as those ebay auctions I showed you, you would spend in turbo'ing a 12A or 13B. There's many different ways to go about turbo'ing a 2 rotor without having to spend $5k. Yes, you will spend a couple of grand, but not all of $5k.

***Herblenny*** · 07-17-2008, 10:01 AM

I hear ya Todd!! You are the type of person, I want to see 3 rotor rotary car..

About my comment above..
Don't get me wrong... I'm sure almost all of us on this forum would LOVE to go 3 rotor.. I think in some ways its a wet dream.... LOL!

But the thing is that, I've heard and seen young kids talk about doing 3 rotors or lying about having one in their car... When I start to ask specific questions..

I'm not trying to kill anyone's dream.. And I guess I'll be pissed to if someone killed mine

but realistically, its not as easy as some think.... Sure, you might get it in, go na or turbo, and it will move... But is that all you look for in building a car????

The thing i starting to realize is its SO much harder to build all around car. Car that you could take it to a 12 turn track, run the drag, and drive on the street without killing your back... Its so much easier to build a car to do one thing... but to do all, it take time and learning...

I on the other hand from the start told everyone that my 20B project is for a show... But I also believe just show doesn't mean it couldnt to other things I've mentioned above..

To_Slow · 07-17-2008, 11:28 AM

After building 3 turn key 3 rotors, 2 for my customers and one for me.

I can tell you its not cheap. Right now i have over 30k in my latest 3 rotor set up and its not even in the car.

So if you have the cash, do it if you have to save up for it there are better things to do with you time and money.

Hope that helps

warwickben · 07-17-2008, 05:34 PM

thanks for the advice guys. the comment i made about starting na then the thing about turbo is my fault i should of explain a little better.

the na comment what i should of said is after i go tho all the work of just getting it in the car and if i could convert it to carb to see if i could get it run right on a carb. then i would go turbo. if i couldn't go carb with it most likely id just keep it stock and be happy with it till i fully understand how to tune the ecu's ect.

sorry if i pissed any one off i did not mean to. i just wanted to know info. if i do deiced to go 20b it wount be for a few year's. id probly get the motor and slowly build it over years when i have money.

i deiced for now ill just stay with a 2 rotor

BLK FC3S · 07-23-2008, 05:56 AM

It's less work and less money to get a 20b to run turbo'd than setup a whole N/A 20b. It involves rebuilding the motor with different rotors, custom manifolds, replumbing just about everything. Why bother if you're going to eventually go turbo anyways. What I did is just start out with the motor and get it running good with the twins before going all out. When you get it running good and all the bugs fixed with the stock motor, then you can start going big.
I see too many people dump tons of cash into a big project either to find out they didn't have too or that they still can't get the thing to run right after hours of tuning. I don't know the exact percentages, but most projects get scrapped before they even start.
If you do go through with the swap, think about how much money you think you're going to spend and then triple it. Thats how much you should have in your bank before you even pull so much as a spark plug wire off your existing motor.

vincentrx7 · 07-23-2008, 07:51 PM

This conversation is exactly why so many people have 3 rotor projects and only a few have running cars. On the other hand, I absolutely love mine. I did a 2 mile road course, an autocross and tomorrow night I'm going to an 1/8 mile drag strip. It is way more car than I can drive to its potential...but I was looking for a rotary with good hp that I could make reliable. I think I accomplished that...at least the engine anyway. I'm trying to beef up the drivetrain now....more money....and I need a 99 spec front end and a vented hood to help with the water temps.
I think you made a wise choice going with a 2 rotor.

07-10-2008, 07:05 PM	#1
warwickben sa rat rod Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: tewksbury ma iTrader: (4) Posts: 408 Rep Power: 17	20b advice hey guys, iam really thinking about trying to find a 20b and trans to put in to my sa. if i do, do it id go na at frist. i was wondering what i would have to do to put a carb on it. i know different custom intake but besides that what would i have to do to the motor to run it with out a ecu. i know it mite sound silly but iam a 12a guy.

07-14-2008, 03:58 PM	#2
*Herblenny* Founder/Administrator/Internet Pitbull :) Join Date: Jan 2008 iTrader: (11) Posts: 644 Rep Power: 10	There is quite a bit for you to run it carb'd... First, you would have to rebuild the engine and use higher compression rotors... Then track down a distributor for 20B (kind of hard)... Then setting up the 3 rotor carb.. I'm guessing around 5k-10K job. __________________ DGRR 2013 - Year of 13B www.DealsGapRotaryRally.com http://www.facebook.com/Herblenny

07-16-2008, 06:50 PM	#7
warwickben sa rat rod Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: tewksbury ma iTrader: (4) Posts: 408 Rep Power: 17	thanks, ok ok you guys are twisting my arm now making me want to go 20b lol. i guess ill just save up and do it. keep it stock till i under stand tunning. heck even if i went with turboing my 12a or a TII swap it would cost me about the same. Last edited by warwickben; 07-16-2008 at 06:53 PM..

07-17-2008, 10:01 AM	#11
*Herblenny* Founder/Administrator/Internet Pitbull :) Join Date: Jan 2008 iTrader: (11) Posts: 644 Rep Power: 10	I hear ya Todd!! You are the type of person, I want to see 3 rotor rotary car.. About my comment above.. Don't get me wrong... I'm sure almost all of us on this forum would LOVE to go 3 rotor.. I think in some ways its a wet dream.... LOL! But the thing is that, I've heard and seen young kids talk about doing 3 rotors or lying about having one in their car... When I start to ask specific questions.. I'm not trying to kill anyone's dream.. And I guess I'll be pissed to if someone killed mine but realistically, its not as easy as some think.... Sure, you might get it in, go na or turbo, and it will move... But is that all you look for in building a car???? The thing i starting to realize is its SO much harder to build all around car. Car that you could take it to a 12 turn track, run the drag, and drive on the street without killing your back... Its so much easier to build a car to do one thing... but to do all, it take time and learning... I on the other hand from the start told everyone that my 20B project is for a show... But I also believe just show doesn't mean it couldnt to other things I've mentioned above.. __________________ DGRR 2013 - Year of 13B www.DealsGapRotaryRally.com http://www.facebook.com/Herblenny Last edited by Herblenny; 07-17-2008 at 01:16 PM..

07-23-2008, 05:56 AM	#14
BLK FC3S C088 Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Mount Dora, FL (no its not a mountian) iTrader: (0) Posts: 112 Rep Power: 17	It's less work and less money to get a 20b to run turbo'd than setup a whole N/A 20b. It involves rebuilding the motor with different rotors, custom manifolds, replumbing just about everything. Why bother if you're going to eventually go turbo anyways. What I did is just start out with the motor and get it running good with the twins before going all out. When you get it running good and all the bugs fixed with the stock motor, then you can start going big. I see too many people dump tons of cash into a big project either to find out they didn't have too or that they still can't get the thing to run right after hours of tuning. I don't know the exact percentages, but most projects get scrapped before they even start. If you do go through with the swap, think about how much money you think you're going to spend and then triple it. Thats how much you should have in your bank before you even pull so much as a spark plug wire off your existing motor. __________________

07-16-2008, 12:30 AM	#3
jtbshaw ORD - Old Rotary Dude Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Pelham, AL iTrader: (3) Posts: 319 Rep Power: 17	Twin Weber IDAs FTW!

07-16-2008, 06:04 PM	#4
warwickben sa rat rod Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: tewksbury ma iTrader: (4) Posts: 408 Rep Power: 17	i was going to boost it if i did go with a 20b. but my main thing i could not get my head around was the distributor. i wish i new about ecu's ect other wise id go that way. heck i wish i could find a place that sells the motor, trans, ecu ect in stead of having to buy a whole clip id just run that stock in my sa till i learned how to tune a ecu. all i have been able to find on the net is complete motors and trans without the ecu or complete front clips with the ecu nolimitind i would probably do that or twin o.e.r side drafts.

07-16-2008, 06:21 PM	#5
jtbshaw ORD - Old Rotary Dude Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Pelham, AL iTrader: (3) Posts: 319 Rep Power: 17	There were two complete units for sale on ebay today for $4500.....like this one: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Parts...3286.m14.l1318

07-16-2008, 06:25 PM	#6
jtbshaw ORD - Old Rotary Dude Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Pelham, AL iTrader: (3) Posts: 319 Rep Power: 17	Here's the other one: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Parts...3286.m14.l1318

07-17-2008, 09:38 AM	#10
jtbshaw ORD - Old Rotary Dude Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Pelham, AL iTrader: (3) Posts: 319 Rep Power: 17	Well said, 85SE! Phil is right. In my case, I've been working on these things since the mid 80s. I've had every combination of 12As and 13Bs, except a peripheral port. I've wanted to go 20B for a while now, and Phil can even vouch for me on that. I began talking with him over 2 years ago about a 3 rotor setup and I still haven't pulled the trigger on the project yet. A 3 rotor setup is a huge undertaking, especially if you don't understand how everything works with each other (and part of that is tuning). As Phil also mentioned, you may want to go a different route. You stated that for about the same $$$ as those ebay auctions I showed you, you would spend in turbo'ing a 12A or 13B. There's many different ways to go about turbo'ing a 2 rotor without having to spend $5k. Yes, you will spend a couple of grand, but not all of $5k.

07-17-2008, 11:28 AM	#12
To_Slow Rotary Fanatic Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Shelby Twp MI. iTrader: (1) Posts: 315 Rep Power: 17	After building 3 turn key 3 rotors, 2 for my customers and one for me. I can tell you its not cheap. Right now i have over 30k in my latest 3 rotor set up and its not even in the car. So if you have the cash, do it if you have to save up for it there are better things to do with you time and money. Hope that helps

07-17-2008, 05:34 PM	#13
warwickben sa rat rod Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: tewksbury ma iTrader: (4) Posts: 408 Rep Power: 17	thanks for the advice guys. the comment i made about starting na then the thing about turbo is my fault i should of explain a little better. the na comment what i should of said is after i go tho all the work of just getting it in the car and if i could convert it to carb to see if i could get it run right on a carb. then i would go turbo. if i couldn't go carb with it most likely id just keep it stock and be happy with it till i fully understand how to tune the ecu's ect. sorry if i pissed any one off i did not mean to. i just wanted to know info. if i do deiced to go 20b it wount be for a few year's. id probly get the motor and slowly build it over years when i have money. i deiced for now ill just stay with a 2 rotor

07-23-2008, 07:51 PM	#15
vincentrx7 20b FD Join Date: Apr 2008 iTrader: (0) Posts: 105 Rep Power: 17	This conversation is exactly why so many people have 3 rotor projects and only a few have running cars. On the other hand, I absolutely love mine. I did a 2 mile road course, an autocross and tomorrow night I'm going to an 1/8 mile drag strip. It is way more car than I can drive to its potential...but I was looking for a rotary with good hp that I could make reliable. I think I accomplished that...at least the engine anyway. I'm trying to beef up the drivetrain now....more money....and I need a 99 spec front end and a vented hood to help with the water temps. I think you made a wise choice going with a 2 rotor.