Help!!!!

Nicole · 05-18-2015, 03:06 AM

Hi folks, I'm Nicole and I have joined in order to get some educated advice about what to do with my RX8. A little backstory.....

My first car was an '81 RX7, and it was the automobile love of my life. It was reliable and lasted forever. I drove it until it just wouldn't drive anymore, many years.

Fast forward to 2014 - I'm a mother of 2 great girls, 20 & 18, and my 18 year old totaled my car (a dependable motherly Saturn Vue). I'm 44 now, and with my kids leaving the nest, I felt like maybe it was time to get the car I always wanted for myself - a beautiful black RX8. I assumed (yes, we all know what happens when we assume things) that the RX8 would be like my RX7, only better! Newer! More features! The backseat! I was relieved that one of my kids survived their first accident unscathed, and I thought it was a sign for me to move on with my independent life. And like I said, I thought it was the best of both worlds because not only is it gorgeous, but I thought, practical too, given my history with the RX7. Win-win.

Approximately 2 months after I purchased it, it began....not working. I took it to a local highly regarded garage, and after $700 of work (new battery, new starter, new wiring etc), it still didn't work. It would fire up beautifully, and then just not start after turning it off. The last time I drove it, it went dead on me while I was actually driving it. Like it just fell asleep. Nice.

I realized what you all already know I am sure, that rotary engines HAVE to be worked on by people that know rotaries. So I took it to the Mazda dealer, and was told it was severely flooded, hence the issues. They fixed that, and it drove great again. However, while it was there, I asked and paid for a compression check.

Low compression.

Here is what I would like to know: It would cost as much as I paid for the car to have a new Mazda engine installed at the dealer (or anywhere else for that matter), so that isn't an option. Do I (gulp) sell my beautiful dream car for parts/scrap it, or is it feasible to put a regular used engine in it? After doing research, I've found that many people have retrofitted RX8s with standard engines, and the cost would be far less. I'm worried, however, that it would open up a whole new host of problems, electrical systems not being compatible, etc.

I'm a single woman, and about the only thing I can do myself is change a tire. I'm afraid that even if I get a new engine for it, the RX8 is so high tech and finicky that I will always be faced with small problems that I can't fix myself. I sort of feel maybe this car belongs in the hands of a person that knows cars, rotary engines specifically, and can work on it themselves whenever something little goes wrong. It's been very discouraging to say the least, and it kind of broke my heart.

Help? LOL

Nicole · 05-18-2015, 03:54 AM

Beautiful shiny black giant paperweight.

RICE RACING · 05-18-2015, 04:10 AM

Fix the engine as sell it as a runner Nicole.
That way you will regain most money.

As a side note: ROTARIES have always equaled financial destruction, unless you can work on it yourself or boyfriend or are rich it is 99.9% going to end in tears. They are gold medal shit boxes.

Nicole · 05-18-2015, 05:31 AM

You'll have to excuse my ignorance, but what is a "runner"? And do you think I would make more money that way rather than selling it as is for parts? I don't really have 5 grand laying around to put in a new rotary engine.....lol It is a 2004 and while the rest of it in mint condition, I can't imagine it being worth more than 6 or 7 grand with a new engine.

RICE RACING · 05-18-2015, 06:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nicole

You'll have to excuse my ignorance, but what is a "runner"? And do you think I would make more money that way rather than selling it as is for parts? I don't really have 5 grand laying around to put in a new rotary engine.....lol It is a 2004 and while the rest of it in mint condition, I can't imagine it being worth more than 6 or 7 grand with a new engine.

'runner' means running engine.
there would be lots of people around who will rebuild your engine so it has good compression to allow you to sell the car.
get some quotes and go from there.

Fendamonky · 05-18-2015, 07:05 AM

Hi Nicole, welcome to the forum!!! It's good to have you here, though the situation that brought you is unfortunate...

I would def say try to have the engine rebuilt by a reputable person/shop, also have them go over everything as your car may have things wrong with it that are NOT apparent to the standard Mazda Tech (sadly most Mazda dealerships don't know fuck-all about rotaries). How many miles is on the car?

Where about in the country are you? Sometimes it is ABSOLUTELY worth it to drive (or tow) hundred(s) of miles for a good rotary shop.

Hopefully we can help you get your car situation figured out, and you're welcome to stick around for the punch and pie afterwards

Cheers,

Levi

Pete_89T2 · 05-18-2015, 07:31 AM

Hi Nicole, welcome to RCC!

A few more details on your RX8 might help get you clearer advice here - for starters, what year is it, and how many miles are on it? FYI, the earlier RX8s had a number of issues that Mazda corrected on the later models and by doing recalls & TSBs (Tech Service Bulletins). Also, if you have the service history on it, tell us which of the Mazda TSBs and/or recalls were done on it. Ditto on location - folks here can likely point you to a reputable rotary specialist that hopefully is a reasonable distance away.

Other than the fact that Mazda dealer found the engine has low compression, what else is going wrong with it now? Does it not start (when hot or cold)? Run poorly? (i.e., feels low on power/hesitates or otherwise runs like crap).

Pete

Nicole · 05-18-2015, 07:54 AM

For starters, thank you so much for all the feedback so far. As you can tell, I am so far out of my element here.

The car is a 2004, with approx 98K miles on it. I was sick when I realized I missed the extended warranty on the engine that was offered back in 2008 by one year (10 yrs 100K). Anyway, I don't know what recalls have been done on it, coincidentally I just received a recall notice for a potentially faulty airbag yesterday - guess I'll have that taken care of.

I had no idea the engine could be rebuilt - I thought my only options were to install a totally new engine or junk the whole thing. The car runs absolutely beautifully - when it runs. As of right now, it fires right up and drives like a dream, not sluggish, not anything. The problem is that sometimes, you can drive it down the road no problem and it just dies - while driving. Also, sometimes it just flat out won't start. I was told it can get flooded very easily, if it is started and turned off a lot within a short period of time (like when it was at the mechanic's, they probably turned it on, drove it into the garage, turned it off, turned it back on to check something, turned it off, etc etc). I do know that once the Mazda dealer dealt with the flooded engine (because at that point it wouldn't run at all), it drove great again. But the underlying problem remains, that something is making it die without warning (not exactly safe!) and something is keeping it from firing up randomly. But to answer the question about it's running state, it drives beautifully. I just assumed that since there was low compression on the engine it was inevitable the engine would have to go.

I live in Greenville SC, and currently it is at my brother's house about 3 hrs away down in Charleston SC.

Any idea how much it would cost to have a reputable rotary mechanic rebuild it? If it was just a few thousand than it would definitely be worth doing to sell. I just simply cannot sink 5k into it just to sell it for 6 (or whatever it would be worth).

Thanks again!

Pete_89T2 · 05-18-2015, 08:38 AM

That's actually good news - the engine dying intermittently at random sounds spark/electrical related to me. Chances are it does NOT need a rebuild yet; get the electrical gremlins exorcised and it will run/last a long time, even with low compression.

I'm not too familiar with the RX8's, but I recall hearing somewhere on here that they are known to have issues with the coils/ignitors going bad, and I want to say there was a TSB/part # change to deal with that. A failing coil would cause your engine to die at random. Someone else more knowlegable about the RX8's can probably elaborate.

On the service history, you can either call Mazda's customer service # or stop at any Mazda dealer service dept with you VIN # to have them look up your car's service history. At least that would get you a record of any service that was done at Mazda dealerships, and tell you which of the recalls/TSBs were done on your car. If you still have the original coils after 11 years & 98K miles, it probably won't hurt (other than $) to just replace them and see if it solves your problem.

Fendamonky · 05-18-2015, 08:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nicole

I live in Greenville SC, and currently it is at my brother's house about 3 hrs away down in Charleston SC.

Hmm... djseven is in Nashville, TN. He can get a rebuild done on a budget, not sure how involved he is in doing rebuilds anymore though. Also, allrotor93 does a lot of FD RX-7 car flipping, he ALWAYS rebuilds the motors before selling the cars though, so he should def be able capable of rebuilding an rx-8 motor for ya, he's in Cary, NC.

I know both those guys are active over on the rx7club forum, though they may have accounts over here as well. I'll try to point them this direction for ya..

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nicole

For starters, thank you so much for all the feedback so far. As you can tell, I am so far out of my element here.

It's all good. You made a good call by coming to a forum of enthusiasts instead of JUST giving the dealership money to replace parts instead of diagnosing the problems.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nicole

I had no idea the engine could be rebuilt - I thought my only options were to install a totally new engine or junk the whole thing. The car runs absolutely beautifully - when it runs. As of right now, it fires right up and drives like a dream, not sluggish, not anything. The problem is that sometimes, you can drive it down the road no problem and it just dies - while driving. Also, sometimes it just flat out won't start.

But the underlying problem remains, that something is making it die without warning (not exactly safe!) and something is keeping it from firing up randomly. But to answer the question about it's running state, it drives beautifully. I just assumed that since there was low compression on the engine it was inevitable the engine would have to go.

I don't own an rx-8, so I'm not completely familiar with a lot of the specific foibles of the 13B-MSP (the 13B rotary Multiple Side Port engine in your RX-8) and it's support systems. Honestly I bet you could get the car running fine without necessarily needing a rebuild. It sounds like you've got a decent motor but some of your support systems are getting wonky, or you've got a wiring issue

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nicole

Any idea how much it would cost to have a reputable rotary mechanic rebuild it? If it was just a few thousand than it would definitely be worth doing to sell. I just simply cannot sink 5k into it just to sell it for 6 (or whatever it would be worth).

Thanks again!

A full rebuild will typically run between $3k and $5k depending on what all needs replacing. The breakdown of those costs are usually $1,000 to remove and reinstall the engine, a soft seal kit from Mazda (all your O-rings and soft seals) is about $900, add more if you need new apex/side/corner seals. The remainder of the rebuilding cost will go towards labor, and the rebuild cost can go up if there is significant replacement/refurbishment of engine parts that are out of spec.

"Reman" or remanufactured engines (motors rebuilt by Mazda) can usually be had for significantly less than a new engine and are often just as good for the average commuter, you've just got to know where to ask for them.

I would suggest contacting Ray Crowe (703-490-5296) at Malloy Mazda (in Woodbridge, Va) for ANY Mazda OEM rx-8 parts that you're looking to buy/replace. His prices are SIGNIFICANTLY better than your local dealership and he's got shipping parts (even engines) down to a fine art. Hell, he used to ship me parts to England all the time when I was stationed out there...

Just some food for thought as a starter. Hopefully the RX-8 savvy guys will pop in to help you out (and/or correct me

).

Nicole · 05-18-2015, 08:48 AM

Well that is encouraging news! I forgot to mention, though, that I have already replaced the spark plugs, if that factors into any of this. They were not Mazda spark plugs, but when I took the car to the Mazda dealer I asked him to make sure they were good quality and if not, to replace them with Mazda plugs - I've been told that there is a marked difference. I was told the plugs were quality and did not need to be replaced. Also - not related to what we are talking about at the moment, the initial garage I took this too told me (after they ran out of ideas) that I needed a new catalytic convertor and was about to charge me $500 for one. That's when I took it to the dealer, they checked it, and told me it was totally fine.

So let me make sure I am getting this straight, it is possible this is some sort of electrical issue and it is still drivable for a while on low compression? I think I would still like to sell it for obvious reasons (I am not cut out for working on this car no matter how pretty it is!) but once the issue is addressed it would be ethical to sell it as is? It really does run beautifully. I fell in love with it when I test drove it. It is SCARY fast, and the pick up is amazing. I don't know if this is a standard feature on RX8s, but mine is automatic with a "paddle" to opt to drive it manually. Other than this issue this car looks brand new, inside and out.

Nicole · 05-18-2015, 08:50 AM

And again - you guys are so awesome! I am literally a damsel in distress here. lol

JL1RX7 · 05-18-2015, 08:57 AM

Kevin Landers (Rotary Resurection) in Morristown Tennessee. He is the home of budget rebuilds. Stand up dude who will work with you on budget. But 2 to 3k would be about were it falls. Almost always the 8 destroys the housings. Finding good used one's is all but impossible.

First and foremost how old are the plugs and coils. If they are over 20k replace them. You can do this yourself and save some money. If you go OEM parts make sure they are the C model. Going O'Riley's/Advanced/Auto Zone will be cheaper and you can get a lifetime warranty on them depending on where you buy them. Plugs are the same way. Only one company makes them so NGK is the same whether OEM or not.

Fendamonky · 05-18-2015, 09:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JL1RX7

Kevin Landers (Rotary Resurection) in Morristown Tennessee. He is the home of budget rebuilds. Stand up dude who will work with you on budget.

Shit, thanks Jack. I was mixing him and djseven up

Nicole · 05-18-2015, 09:00 AM

I can't believe I didn't think to include this pic - the "dealer" (crook) I bought this car from obviously either had it sitting somewhere for a while or got it from someone that had. Which explains why it looks new - but while it had been sitting, evidently rats made themselves at home inside and that would totally explain the electrical issues. I already paid $300 for misc wiring to be replaced, but that was at the garage that didn't really know what they were doing. I'm getting a strong feeling now I need a rotary expert to examine the wiring to diagnose. Take a look at this pic the garage snapped for me. I'm not a total idiot lol, this was not readily seen when I checked under the hood before purchasing. I was shocked when I saw the picture.

The icing on the cake was that when I contacted the jerk that sold it to me and showed him the picture, he insisted that must have happened in the 2 months AFTER I bought the car. What a JERK.

I hope you all can see this, I didn't know how to add this picture to the original thread.

05-18-2015, 03:06 AM	#1
Nicole The Newbie Join Date: Mar 2015 iTrader: (0) Posts: 29 Rep Power: 0	Help!!!! Hi folks, I'm Nicole and I have joined in order to get some educated advice about what to do with my RX8. A little backstory..... My first car was an '81 RX7, and it was the automobile love of my life. It was reliable and lasted forever. I drove it until it just wouldn't drive anymore, many years. Fast forward to 2014 - I'm a mother of 2 great girls, 20 & 18, and my 18 year old totaled my car (a dependable motherly Saturn Vue). I'm 44 now, and with my kids leaving the nest, I felt like maybe it was time to get the car I always wanted for myself - a beautiful black RX8. I assumed (yes, we all know what happens when we assume things) that the RX8 would be like my RX7, only better! Newer! More features! The backseat! I was relieved that one of my kids survived their first accident unscathed, and I thought it was a sign for me to move on with my independent life. And like I said, I thought it was the best of both worlds because not only is it gorgeous, but I thought, practical too, given my history with the RX7. Win-win. Approximately 2 months after I purchased it, it began....not working. I took it to a local highly regarded garage, and after $700 of work (new battery, new starter, new wiring etc), it still didn't work. It would fire up beautifully, and then just not start after turning it off. The last time I drove it, it went dead on me while I was actually driving it. Like it just fell asleep. Nice. I realized what you all already know I am sure, that rotary engines HAVE to be worked on by people that know rotaries. So I took it to the Mazda dealer, and was told it was severely flooded, hence the issues. They fixed that, and it drove great again. However, while it was there, I asked and paid for a compression check. Low compression. Here is what I would like to know: It would cost as much as I paid for the car to have a new Mazda engine installed at the dealer (or anywhere else for that matter), so that isn't an option. Do I (gulp) sell my beautiful dream car for parts/scrap it, or is it feasible to put a regular used engine in it? After doing research, I've found that many people have retrofitted RX8s with standard engines, and the cost would be far less. I'm worried, however, that it would open up a whole new host of problems, electrical systems not being compatible, etc. I'm a single woman, and about the only thing I can do myself is change a tire. I'm afraid that even if I get a new engine for it, the RX8 is so high tech and finicky that I will always be faced with small problems that I can't fix myself. I sort of feel maybe this car belongs in the hands of a person that knows cars, rotary engines specifically, and can work on it themselves whenever something little goes wrong. It's been very discouraging to say the least, and it kind of broke my heart. Help? LOL Last edited by Nicole; 05-18-2015 at 03:09 AM.. Reason: add text

05-18-2015, 04:10 AM	#3
RICE RACING Don Mega Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Utopia iTrader: (0) Posts: 1,688 Rep Power: 18	Fix the engine as sell it as a runner Nicole. That way you will regain most money. As a side note: ROTARIES have always equaled financial destruction, unless you can work on it yourself or boyfriend or are rich it is 99.9% going to end in tears. They are gold medal shit boxes. __________________ www.riceracing.com.au Worlds best Apex Seals Coil on Plug Water Injection ECU Calibration

05-18-2015, 08:38 AM	#9
Pete_89T2 Lifetime Rotorhead Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Elkton, MD iTrader: (1) Posts: 874 Rep Power: 15	That's actually good news - the engine dying intermittently at random sounds spark/electrical related to me. Chances are it does NOT need a rebuild yet; get the electrical gremlins exorcised and it will run/last a long time, even with low compression. I'm not too familiar with the RX8's, but I recall hearing somewhere on here that they are known to have issues with the coils/ignitors going bad, and I want to say there was a TSB/part # change to deal with that. A failing coil would cause your engine to die at random. Someone else more knowlegable about the RX8's can probably elaborate. On the service history, you can either call Mazda's customer service # or stop at any Mazda dealer service dept with you VIN # to have them look up your car's service history. At least that would get you a record of any service that was done at Mazda dealerships, and tell you which of the recalls/TSBs were done on your car. If you still have the original coils after 11 years & 98K miles, it probably won't hurt (other than $) to just replace them and see if it solves your problem. Last edited by Pete_89T2; 05-18-2015 at 08:41 AM..

05-18-2015, 05:31 AM	#4
Nicole The Newbie Join Date: Mar 2015 iTrader: (0) Posts: 29 Rep Power: 0	You'll have to excuse my ignorance, but what is a "runner"? And do you think I would make more money that way rather than selling it as is for parts? I don't really have 5 grand laying around to put in a new rotary engine.....lol It is a 2004 and while the rest of it in mint condition, I can't imagine it being worth more than 6 or 7 grand with a new engine.

05-18-2015, 07:31 AM	#7
Pete_89T2 Lifetime Rotorhead Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Elkton, MD iTrader: (1) Posts: 874 Rep Power: 15	Hi Nicole, welcome to RCC! A few more details on your RX8 might help get you clearer advice here - for starters, what year is it, and how many miles are on it? FYI, the earlier RX8s had a number of issues that Mazda corrected on the later models and by doing recalls & TSBs (Tech Service Bulletins). Also, if you have the service history on it, tell us which of the Mazda TSBs and/or recalls were done on it. Ditto on location - folks here can likely point you to a reputable rotary specialist that hopefully is a reasonable distance away. Other than the fact that Mazda dealer found the engine has low compression, what else is going wrong with it now? Does it not start (when hot or cold)? Run poorly? (i.e., feels low on power/hesitates or otherwise runs like crap). Pete

05-18-2015, 07:54 AM	#8
Nicole The Newbie Join Date: Mar 2015 iTrader: (0) Posts: 29 Rep Power: 0	For starters, thank you so much for all the feedback so far. As you can tell, I am so far out of my element here. The car is a 2004, with approx 98K miles on it. I was sick when I realized I missed the extended warranty on the engine that was offered back in 2008 by one year (10 yrs 100K). Anyway, I don't know what recalls have been done on it, coincidentally I just received a recall notice for a potentially faulty airbag yesterday - guess I'll have that taken care of. I had no idea the engine could be rebuilt - I thought my only options were to install a totally new engine or junk the whole thing. The car runs absolutely beautifully - when it runs. As of right now, it fires right up and drives like a dream, not sluggish, not anything. The problem is that sometimes, you can drive it down the road no problem and it just dies - while driving. Also, sometimes it just flat out won't start. I was told it can get flooded very easily, if it is started and turned off a lot within a short period of time (like when it was at the mechanic's, they probably turned it on, drove it into the garage, turned it off, turned it back on to check something, turned it off, etc etc). I do know that once the Mazda dealer dealt with the flooded engine (because at that point it wouldn't run at all), it drove great again. But the underlying problem remains, that something is making it die without warning (not exactly safe!) and something is keeping it from firing up randomly. But to answer the question about it's running state, it drives beautifully. I just assumed that since there was low compression on the engine it was inevitable the engine would have to go. I live in Greenville SC, and currently it is at my brother's house about 3 hrs away down in Charleston SC. Any idea how much it would cost to have a reputable rotary mechanic rebuild it? If it was just a few thousand than it would definitely be worth doing to sell. I just simply cannot sink 5k into it just to sell it for 6 (or whatever it would be worth). Thanks again!

05-18-2015, 08:48 AM	#11
Nicole The Newbie Join Date: Mar 2015 iTrader: (0) Posts: 29 Rep Power: 0	Well that is encouraging news! I forgot to mention, though, that I have already replaced the spark plugs, if that factors into any of this. They were not Mazda spark plugs, but when I took the car to the Mazda dealer I asked him to make sure they were good quality and if not, to replace them with Mazda plugs - I've been told that there is a marked difference. I was told the plugs were quality and did not need to be replaced. Also - not related to what we are talking about at the moment, the initial garage I took this too told me (after they ran out of ideas) that I needed a new catalytic convertor and was about to charge me $500 for one. That's when I took it to the dealer, they checked it, and told me it was totally fine. So let me make sure I am getting this straight, it is possible this is some sort of electrical issue and it is still drivable for a while on low compression? I think I would still like to sell it for obvious reasons (I am not cut out for working on this car no matter how pretty it is!) but once the issue is addressed it would be ethical to sell it as is? It really does run beautifully. I fell in love with it when I test drove it. It is SCARY fast, and the pick up is amazing. I don't know if this is a standard feature on RX8s, but mine is automatic with a "paddle" to opt to drive it manually. Other than this issue this car looks brand new, inside and out.

05-18-2015, 08:50 AM	#12
Nicole The Newbie Join Date: Mar 2015 iTrader: (0) Posts: 29 Rep Power: 0	And again - you guys are so awesome! I am literally a damsel in distress here. lol

05-18-2015, 08:57 AM	#13
JL1RX7 Rotary Fanatic Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Front Royal, VA iTrader: (1) Posts: 487 Rep Power: 17	Kevin Landers (Rotary Resurection) in Morristown Tennessee. He is the home of budget rebuilds. Stand up dude who will work with you on budget. But 2 to 3k would be about were it falls. Almost always the 8 destroys the housings. Finding good used one's is all but impossible. First and foremost how old are the plugs and coils. If they are over 20k replace them. You can do this yourself and save some money. If you go OEM parts make sure they are the C model. Going O'Riley's/Advanced/Auto Zone will be cheaper and you can get a lifetime warranty on them depending on where you buy them. Plugs are the same way. Only one company makes them so NGK is the same whether OEM or not.