How much airflow Stock TMIC??

Raksj04 · 12-07-2011, 09:50 PM

I was wondering about how much air will flow thru the TMIC with the stock TII hood at 60 mph. Basic what CFM fan I would need to equal that. I have some Ideas but I am not sure if they will be worth it. I would just give it the old college try. In theory it could help with heat sink when idling. I have an Idea but I am not sure if it has enough CFM to do the job.

Pete_89T2 · 12-08-2011, 08:19 AM

I don't know the answer to your question, but if the intent is to stick an e-fan in there to draw cool air over the stock IC, in its top mount location to hold off or limit heat soak while idling or when stuck in slow moving traffic, I think you'll be fighting a futile battle. IMHO, your efforts and $ would be better spent converting to a FMIC or V-mount setup. Besides, where would you find room for the fan? There's zero room under the stock TMIC, and if you put it on top somehow, it would probably end up looking like some ricer took a

on your hood.

Raksj04 · 12-08-2011, 12:33 PM

Well I was looking onto a blower style fan from a boat. they either 3in or 4in, and are designed be how ducting on them. how ever the 4in on avg flow about 230 CFM, and you could mount them on the firewall. Redesigning the under tray would be hard with out a welder. I also had the idea of computer fans but their flow rate is normally less then 100cfm for a 200mm fan.

djmtsu · 12-08-2011, 12:43 PM

You are wasting you time, and resources by trying this.

The money is better spent elsewhere.

FerociousP · 12-08-2011, 02:33 PM

the best way to prevent heaksoak is to move it from the top of the motor.... ie a FMIC.

There is a picture floating on the internets showing a high pressure area where the inlet for the duct sits on the hood. So while moving, no fan could keep up... For being stopped, you'd prob be better off just taking it for a short easy drive to remove some heat.

My5ABaby · 12-08-2011, 05:56 PM

Options:
1. Get a 400CFM fan that flows probably about 1/50th of the 60mph airflow.
2. Get a vented hood.
3. Get a FMIC.

2 and 3 sound good to me.

***TitaniumTT*** · 12-08-2011, 06:27 PM

VMIC or HMIC is the only way to go....

Lets take an intercooler, then stack an oil cooler behind that, then lets stack a condenser behind that, then lets put the rad there... then lets watch things over heat

Have you ever put yourt hand infront of one of those bilge blowers? You can stall it out with ease. They're not meant to move any air with pressure behind it, pressure is what's going to be required to force its way through the intercooler and actually remove some of the heat generated.

88turboii · 12-08-2011, 07:47 PM

i believe the stock tmic gets plenty of flow when you are moving at any reasonable speed. ive logged intake temps and they get pretty hot during boost, but then cool back down extremely quickly, within a couple seconds. I have the heat shield removed on mine though. but this tells me its not a flow problem, but more the stock IC does not have enough surface area to keep cool. im thinking increasing flow through the IC will not help as much as trying to increase the size the the intercooler. look at what REamemiya did with welding two cores together

RICE RACING · 12-08-2011, 09:04 PM

About 20 years ago I data logged all these sorts of question through my Autronic ECU in the first gen RX7, I was running a S5 motor with a 20B intercooler up front, I tested all kinds of things, and found out what my mate with the outrageous signature size is saying!

I still have the logs and software to see them, I need to take pics and post them up. I increased the efficiency of the intercooler a metric arse load by encasing it in a really sic scoop that hung out the front of the car, ( I have a track photo from 1994 showing the scoop!) this brought down the IC charge temp by over 20 deg C, the theory was the mass flow of air at pressure was being forced through the IC and not over and around it..... math is simple basic mass flow of air is acting to transfer heat from the IC core, higher flow rate of air and greater density = far greater heat exchange between the two.

TO give you an idea I went from 70 deg C charge temp to under 50 deg C (despite running more boost! and running in ambient conditions that were 15 deg C hotter!) at 240kmh in the top of 4th gear.

The stock top mount IC's can work good but you need a good hood scoop and a sealed bonnet at minimum. A water spray system helps no end as well cause at power levels over 400bhp (engine power) the charge temp will always be too hot as its just too small when air is the cooling medium. If you encase it in a water jacket then its a different story

but that is a whole nother question and level of complexity.

RICE RACING · 12-08-2011, 09:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 88turboii

i believe the stock tmic gets plenty of flow when you are moving at any reasonable speed. ive logged intake temps and they get pretty hot during boost, but then cool back down extremely quickly, within a couple seconds. I have the heat shield removed on mine though. but this tells me its not a flow problem, but more the stock IC does not have enough surface area to keep cool. im thinking increasing flow through the IC will not help as much as trying to increase the size the the intercooler. look at what REamemiya did with welding two cores together

On my water injection page the silver 1st gen RX7 (440rwhp vid) has an intercooler like that I made personally which consisted of two S5 intercoolers welded end on end and front mounted. It could take 26psi boost not a problem.

Raksj04 · 12-09-2011, 12:08 AM

HMIC?? Maybe I will just go V-mount. When I started reading the flow rates of the blower motors had weak CFM. using this website http://www.comairrotron.com/airflow_calc.shtml
It is about 2740.83 CFM at 60 mph. If the fins are left out to keep it simple. 11.5 x 6.5.
The 400 CFM the blower would give me would equal about 9 mph. It would be cheaper to build a water sprayer system, duct the scoop to the TMIC on my CF hood. maybe try to angle the IC a little and have better ducting out the back. I want to run a VMIC when I get the funds.

12-07-2011, 09:50 PM	#1
Raksj04 I have Ultra power in me. Join Date: Sep 2011 iTrader: (2) Posts: 457 Rep Power: 14	How much airflow Stock TMIC?? I was wondering about how much air will flow thru the TMIC with the stock TII hood at 60 mph. Basic what CFM fan I would need to equal that. I have some Ideas but I am not sure if they will be worth it. I would just give it the old college try. In theory it could help with heat sink when idling. I have an Idea but I am not sure if it has enough CFM to do the job.

12-08-2011, 12:43 PM	#4
djmtsu My minds tellin' me no... Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Murfreesboro, TN iTrader: (10) Posts: 4,043 Rep Power: 21	You are wasting you time, and resources by trying this. The money is better spent elsewhere. __________________ 1976 Mazda Cosmo RX-5 1976 Mazda Cosmo RX-5 2003 Toyota Tundra TRD 2015 Toyota 4Runner SR5

12-08-2011, 02:33 PM	#5
FerociousP I-had-a-bad-experience... Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: M'boro iTrader: (2) Posts: 1,046 Rep Power: 18	the best way to prevent heaksoak is to move it from the top of the motor.... ie a FMIC. There is a picture floating on the internets showing a high pressure area where the inlet for the duct sits on the hood. So while moving, no fan could keep up... For being stopped, you'd prob be better off just taking it for a short easy drive to remove some heat. __________________ '15 Juke Nismo '06 MX-5 GT SOLD '04 S Silver RX-8 GT Track Day Use SOLD '90 Black TII vert w/ Sprint RE stock port/turbo DD dyno (242.6whp@5500rpm @12psi 8psi@redline) and (250ftlbtq@4800rpm @13psi) SOLD '89 GTUs 6p TII SOLD, '87 sport SOLD, '79 SA stock SOLD '91 B2600i 4x4 w/ Rx-8 LSD SOLD

12-08-2011, 05:56 PM	#6
My5ABaby Sigh..... Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Murfreesboro, TN iTrader: (6) Posts: 2,377 Rep Power: 19	Options: 1. Get a 400CFM fan that flows probably about 1/50th of the 60mph airflow. 2. Get a vented hood. 3. Get a FMIC. 2 and 3 sound good to me. __________________ 1986 Sport: 132k miles, 5A (Sapphire Blue Metallic), Tokico Blues, Racing Beat Springs, Custom LED tailights (only S4 LED tails in the world), SSR Mark II, Racing Beat exhaust, S5 black interior, Rotary Resurrection rebuild at 120k miles Community Service Manual RotorWiki "Imagination costs nothing; we could build square locomotives or fly to Mars" - Felix Wankel Yesterday is history, tomorrow is a mystery, but today is a gift. That is why it is called the "present."

12-08-2011, 06:27 PM	#7
*TitaniumTT* Test Whore - Admin Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Right Behind you son iTrader: (4) Posts: 4,581 Rep Power: 10	VMIC or HMIC is the only way to go.... Lets take an intercooler, then stack an oil cooler behind that, then lets stack a condenser behind that, then lets put the rad there... then lets watch things over heat Have you ever put yourt hand infront of one of those bilge blowers? You can stall it out with ease. They're not meant to move any air with pressure behind it, pressure is what's going to be required to force its way through the intercooler and actually remove some of the heat generated. __________________ -The Angry Stig- DGRR 2009, 2011, 2012 & 2013 - Best FC DEALS GAP!! WOOHOOOO!!!!! 2015 Audi S4 - Samantha - Zero Brap S4 2004 RX8 - Jocelyn - 196rwhp, 19mpg fuel to noise converter 2000 Jeep Cherokee Sport - Wifey mobile - Now with 2.5" OME lift and 30" BFG AT KO's! So it begins 1998 Jeep Cherokee - 5 spd, 4" lift, 33" BFG's - Rotary Tow Vehicle 1988 'Vert - In progress 1988 FC Coupe - Gretchen -The attention whore BEAST! I'm a sick individual, what's wrong with you? I'm pure Evil I'm still insane, in the best possible way. I think Brian's idea of romance is using lube. Your rage caused the meteor strike in Russia. The Antichrist would be proud of his minion. You win with your thread. Most everything It's a truck with a steel gate on the back. Just a statement of fact Motec M820, AIM dash, ported 13B-RE Cosmo, 6-spd trans, 4.3 Torsen, custom twin wg fully divided mani, Custom 4" split into 2x 3" exhaust, Custom HMIC, Custom custom custom custom I like to welder stuff.... No Bolt-ons allowed. Dyno'ed @ Speed1 Tuned by me - 405rwhp on WG.... WM50 cuming soon. *-Angry Motherfcker Mode ENGAGED-**

12-08-2011, 08:19 AM	#2
Pete_89T2 Lifetime Rotorhead Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Elkton, MD iTrader: (1) Posts: 874 Rep Power: 15	I don't know the answer to your question, but if the intent is to stick an e-fan in there to draw cool air over the stock IC, in its top mount location to hold off or limit heat soak while idling or when stuck in slow moving traffic, I think you'll be fighting a futile battle. IMHO, your efforts and $ would be better spent converting to a FMIC or V-mount setup. Besides, where would you find room for the fan? There's zero room under the stock TMIC, and if you put it on top somehow, it would probably end up looking like some ricer took a on your hood.

12-08-2011, 12:33 PM	#3
Raksj04 I have Ultra power in me. Join Date: Sep 2011 iTrader: (2) Posts: 457 Rep Power: 14	Well I was looking onto a blower style fan from a boat. they either 3in or 4in, and are designed be how ducting on them. how ever the 4in on avg flow about 230 CFM, and you could mount them on the firewall. Redesigning the under tray would be hard with out a welder. I also had the idea of computer fans but their flow rate is normally less then 100cfm for a 200mm fan.

12-08-2011, 07:47 PM	#8
88turboii destroy, rebuild, repeat Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Charleston, SC iTrader: (0) Posts: 395 Rep Power: 17	i believe the stock tmic gets plenty of flow when you are moving at any reasonable speed. ive logged intake temps and they get pretty hot during boost, but then cool back down extremely quickly, within a couple seconds. I have the heat shield removed on mine though. but this tells me its not a flow problem, but more the stock IC does not have enough surface area to keep cool. im thinking increasing flow through the IC will not help as much as trying to increase the size the the intercooler. look at what REamemiya did with welding two cores together __________________ 1993 RX-7 Touring MB, stockport 13B-REW, 9.4CR rotors, T04S 60-1/p-trim single turbo 1986 RX-7 Base project track beast Last edited by 88turboii; 12-08-2011 at 07:50 PM..

12-08-2011, 09:04 PM	#9
RICE RACING Don Mega Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Utopia iTrader: (0) Posts: 1,688 Rep Power: 18	About 20 years ago I data logged all these sorts of question through my Autronic ECU in the first gen RX7, I was running a S5 motor with a 20B intercooler up front, I tested all kinds of things, and found out what my mate with the outrageous signature size is saying! I still have the logs and software to see them, I need to take pics and post them up. I increased the efficiency of the intercooler a metric arse load by encasing it in a really sic scoop that hung out the front of the car, ( I have a track photo from 1994 showing the scoop!) this brought down the IC charge temp by over 20 deg C, the theory was the mass flow of air at pressure was being forced through the IC and not over and around it..... math is simple basic mass flow of air is acting to transfer heat from the IC core, higher flow rate of air and greater density = far greater heat exchange between the two. TO give you an idea I went from 70 deg C charge temp to under 50 deg C (despite running more boost! and running in ambient conditions that were 15 deg C hotter!) at 240kmh in the top of 4th gear. The stock top mount IC's can work good but you need a good hood scoop and a sealed bonnet at minimum. A water spray system helps no end as well cause at power levels over 400bhp (engine power) the charge temp will always be too hot as its just too small when air is the cooling medium. If you encase it in a water jacket then its a different story but that is a whole nother question and level of complexity. __________________ www.riceracing.com.au Worlds best Apex Seals Coil on Plug Water Injection ECU Calibration

12-09-2011, 12:08 AM	#11
Raksj04 I have Ultra power in me. Join Date: Sep 2011 iTrader: (2) Posts: 457 Rep Power: 14	HMIC?? Maybe I will just go V-mount. When I started reading the flow rates of the blower motors had weak CFM. using this website http://www.comairrotron.com/airflow_calc.shtml It is about 2740.83 CFM at 60 mph. If the fins are left out to keep it simple. 11.5 x 6.5. The 400 CFM the blower would give me would equal about 9 mph. It would be cheaper to build a water sprayer system, duct the scoop to the TMIC on my CF hood. maybe try to angle the IC a little and have better ducting out the back. I want to run a VMIC when I get the funds.