Post-Rebuild, hasn't started since it was put together...

JDriftM · 04-28-2011, 01:19 AM

So, much to my dismay, the motor that I recently built still has not started since I put it into the car.

The car is an 88 Turbo II, it is a DE-EMISSION'D motor (RAN THIS WAY BEFORE THE REBUILD AS AN ACTUAL TURBO'D CAR), it has a 87 harness (low imp.) that was modified for high impedence injectors (car ran with that setup). Engine has 4 port turbo irons (stock port), turbo rotor housings, turbo eccentric shaft, turbo counterweights, S4 NA 9.4-1 comp. rotors, RA apex seals, Atkins solid corner seals, FD corner seal springs, OE side seals, new apex seal springs, new side seal springs, new oil control springs, viton oil control o-rings, RA water and combustion seals. Engine was built with crisco, and petroleum jelly, and rtv in the appropriate areas. That should do it for those interested and to help responses.

Here's the ailments,

-car has spark on Leading and trailing
-car has fuel to front and rear rotors
-car is getting air and reacts to TB movement
-will not catch and start
-tried push starting
-tried starter-starting
-Engine just floods
-will clear engine, clean spark plugs, and try to start again, but engine only floods.
-timing is as per the FSM
-TPS, IAT, AFM, Water Temp, Oil Pressure Sender, all are plugged in
-butterfly's inside the TB are opening
-starter has enough juice (Auto-NA starter= extra turning powah)
-fully charged Optima battery

I need help. Why is it just continually flooding? And not the too much fuel to start a normal motor, but pouring fuel out the exhaust...LITERALLY.

Thanks for the help guys. (Not a newbie, just need the right guidance. Yes, I've searched.)

-Tim

tweiss3 · 04-28-2011, 06:29 AM

I wouldn't think it would need rebuilt again, since its a fresh rebuild. It does almost sound to me like an injector is stuck open

vex · 04-28-2011, 01:45 PM

Sounds like your injectors are getting stuck on. Did you get them cleaned while your engine was apart? You could also double check compression just to be on the safe side. Beyond that I think you know what your issue is: Fuel.

Could it be that the injectors are being grounded out against the body some how? That would cause them to just dump fuel.

rxspeed7 · 04-28-2011, 03:51 PM

put some gear oil in the chambers and try pull starting it then. id put about 10cc into each face and then hand turn it a few times then try starting it. if it is down a lil on compression this should help to bring it up to get started.

I was also take out each inj and verify they are not stuck open, you can do this by disconnecting the fuel pump(by fuse or plug) and releive the fuel lines of any excess pressure. once you do that grab another cas and plug it in to the harness and turn it over by hand and verify each inj is "clicking" any that don't click are either stuck open or closed

JustJeff · 04-28-2011, 04:03 PM

-subscribed-

Looking for info if my first rebuild doesn't want to turn over or any other related problems

Gregory Casimir · 07-21-2011, 05:53 AM

ever get this solved?

FRED · 07-21-2011, 01:20 PM

Nah. Went out and bought some more crayolas. Project in work........I'm sure. See the POLL for my crayola remark.

Max777 · 07-28-2011, 08:27 PM

I had a hell of a time getting my engine started. Go buy a syringe and a quart of Marvel Mystery oil. Deflood the engine and inject a bunch of oil in there. Crank the engine over with a 19mm socket and a 1/2 ratchet, then let it sit for 30 min. Then try starting it again. Dont press the gas pedal until it catches, and then rev it up and keep it between 2 and 3K rpm for the first couple minutes. (pulse the revs)

jfaplanet · 07-28-2011, 11:43 PM

I know it sounds crazy but I had the same problem with an 85 GSL-SE, fuel injected. The sensor on the back of the water pump housing, wiring had a short and was telling the computer that it was sub zero temp. That was dumping fuel wide open. I could pull the fuel line loose and the car would start and run till it ran out of fuel in the chambers. Hooked the fuel lines up and would flood instantly. Ended up changing the harness and fixed the problem.

Good luck hope this helps.

NoDOHC · 08-03-2011, 11:30 PM

You could try clearing the flood and installing a switch on the fuel pump so that you can regulate the fuel to a lower level. Starting from the lean side is the way to go, as it doesn't foul the spark plugs (I am guessing that you are still using the stock ignition - the leading plugs foul very easily on the stock ignition, as it is wasted spark). I have not had a problem with fouled plugs since I installed the LS2 coils on mine, but occasionally had fouled plugs when starting on a cold day with the stock ignition.

My guess is low compression. You need to have the fueling pretty close to get a freshly-rebuilt rotary to start. (The obvious exception to this is re-using the same seals and rotors in the same housings - which will start right up like a fully broken-in engine).

If the compression is low, you will need to use some very viscous oil or assembly grease to bridge the large, post-assembly, gaps.

The pull starting should have worked though, this makes me suspect something other than low compression (hence the fuel cut switch).

View Poll Results: What should I do?
Keep trying to make it run, eventually end up rocking myself in the corner eating crayons.	4	66.67%
Pull it out, rebuild it, still end up rocking myself in the corner eating crayons.	0	0%
Blow it up.	0	0%
Need more crayons.	2	33.33%
Voters: 6. You may not vote on this poll

04-28-2011, 01:19 AM	#1
JDriftM Dedicated Rotorhead Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Cincinnati, OH iTrader: (1) Posts: 92 Rep Power: 17	Post-Rebuild, hasn't started since it was put together... So, much to my dismay, the motor that I recently built still has not started since I put it into the car. The car is an 88 Turbo II, it is a DE-EMISSION'D motor (RAN THIS WAY BEFORE THE REBUILD AS AN ACTUAL TURBO'D CAR), it has a 87 harness (low imp.) that was modified for high impedence injectors (car ran with that setup). Engine has 4 port turbo irons (stock port), turbo rotor housings, turbo eccentric shaft, turbo counterweights, S4 NA 9.4-1 comp. rotors, RA apex seals, Atkins solid corner seals, FD corner seal springs, OE side seals, new apex seal springs, new side seal springs, new oil control springs, viton oil control o-rings, RA water and combustion seals. Engine was built with crisco, and petroleum jelly, and rtv in the appropriate areas. That should do it for those interested and to help responses. Here's the ailments, -car has spark on Leading and trailing -car has fuel to front and rear rotors -car is getting air and reacts to TB movement -will not catch and start -tried push starting -tried starter-starting -Engine just floods -will clear engine, clean spark plugs, and try to start again, but engine only floods. -timing is as per the FSM -TPS, IAT, AFM, Water Temp, Oil Pressure Sender, all are plugged in -butterfly's inside the TB are opening -starter has enough juice (Auto-NA starter= extra turning powah) -fully charged Optima battery I need help. Why is it just continually flooding? And not the too much fuel to start a normal motor, but pouring fuel out the exhaust...LITERALLY. Thanks for the help guys. (Not a newbie, just need the right guidance. Yes, I've searched.) -Tim __________________ DGRR 2013.

04-28-2011, 06:29 AM	#2
tweiss3 Mazda Lover Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Akron, Ohio iTrader: (0) Posts: 319 Rep Power: 15	I wouldn't think it would need rebuilt again, since its a fresh rebuild. It does almost sound to me like an injector is stuck open __________________ 2004 Mazda6 V6 5-spd - still waiting on money for a motor 1991 Mazda RX7 NA 5-spd - my new DD with 145,000 miles

04-28-2011, 01:45 PM	#3
vex RCC Loves Me Not You Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Influx. iTrader: (6) Posts: 2,113 Rep Power: 19	Sounds like your injectors are getting stuck on. Did you get them cleaned while your engine was apart? You could also double check compression just to be on the safe side. Beyond that I think you know what your issue is: Fuel. Could it be that the injectors are being grounded out against the body some how? That would cause them to just dump fuel. __________________ The Official FC Radiator Thread My Project Thread: Cerberus CCVT Virginia Rotary Group

07-28-2011, 08:27 PM	#8
Max777 Pirate Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Central IL iTrader: (5) Posts: 1,323 Rep Power: 18	I had a hell of a time getting my engine started. Go buy a syringe and a quart of Marvel Mystery oil. Deflood the engine and inject a bunch of oil in there. Crank the engine over with a 19mm socket and a 1/2 ratchet, then let it sit for 30 min. Then try starting it again. Dont press the gas pedal until it catches, and then rev it up and keep it between 2 and 3K rpm for the first couple minutes. (pulse the revs) __________________ Rotaries:They are NOT that complicated!

07-21-2011, 05:53 AM	#6
Gregory Casimir Rotary Fanatic Join Date: Jan 2010 iTrader: (0) Posts: 253 Rep Power: 16	ever get this solved?

07-21-2011, 01:20 PM	#7
FRED Rotary Fan in Training Join Date: Mar 2011 iTrader: (0) Posts: 73 Rep Power: 14	Nah. Went out and bought some more crayolas. Project in work........I'm sure. See the POLL for my crayola remark.

07-28-2011, 11:43 PM	#9
jfaplanet Rotary Fanatic Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Smyrna, TN iTrader: (0) Posts: 134 Rep Power: 17	I know it sounds crazy but I had the same problem with an 85 GSL-SE, fuel injected. The sensor on the back of the water pump housing, wiring had a short and was telling the computer that it was sub zero temp. That was dumping fuel wide open. I could pull the fuel line loose and the car would start and run till it ran out of fuel in the chambers. Hooked the fuel lines up and would flood instantly. Ended up changing the harness and fixed the problem. Good luck hope this helps.

08-03-2011, 11:30 PM	#10
NoDOHC The quest for more torque Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Sheboygan, Wisconsin iTrader: (1) Posts: 855 Rep Power: 17	You could try clearing the flood and installing a switch on the fuel pump so that you can regulate the fuel to a lower level. Starting from the lean side is the way to go, as it doesn't foul the spark plugs (I am guessing that you are still using the stock ignition - the leading plugs foul very easily on the stock ignition, as it is wasted spark). I have not had a problem with fouled plugs since I installed the LS2 coils on mine, but occasionally had fouled plugs when starting on a cold day with the stock ignition. My guess is low compression. You need to have the fueling pretty close to get a freshly-rebuilt rotary to start. (The obvious exception to this is re-using the same seals and rotors in the same housings - which will start right up like a fully broken-in engine). If the compression is low, you will need to use some very viscous oil or assembly grease to bridge the large, post-assembly, gaps. The pull starting should have worked though, this makes me suspect something other than low compression (hence the fuel cut switch). __________________ 1986 GXL ('87 4-port NA - Haltech E8, LS2 Coils. Defined Autoworks Headers, Dual 2.5" Exhaust (Dual Superflow, dBX mufflers) 1991 Coupe (KYB AGX Shocks, Eibach lowering springs, RB exhaust, Stock and Automatic)