TitaniumTT's I hope I make it to DGRR '09 Build

[FC3S Murray]

Yeah I toggle it. I had it like that originally to prevent flooding with the OEM ECU and injectors.

[TitaniumTT]

Gotcha. I actually have a 3 position toggle switch set up on mine as well. On - controlled by the Motec, Off - so I can depressureize it if need be, and On - connected to grnd so I can prime the fuel system, check for leaks. I think what I'm going to do over the winter is either move it to the the rear hatch area where it can't be messed with, or put one of those Air Craft stle safety switch covers over it. I had a bad feeling about it tripping or a passenger hitting it while driving.

Someone actually did that with the starter toggle that I had all set up back in the day. Engaged the starter while on the highway - Hey, what's this switch do? Dumbass

[FC3S Murray]

Originally Posted by TitaniumTT

Someone actually did that with the starter toggle that I had all set up back in the day. Engaged the starter while on the highway - Hey, what's this switch do? Dumbass

lol that had to sound great. Yeah tha toggle has come in handy to depressurize the system and leak checks too.

[Max777]

/\ Shit... my sister just messed up my dad's truck in a simmilar way... took all the teeth off the flywheel and the starter... guess who has to fix the damn thing now?

I'm glad you finally got the car sorted, more or less. It's amazing, but even with a build like this, people still run into irratating snags along the way, like how I'm doing right now with my build!

[TitaniumTT]

Originally Posted by FC3S Murray

lol that had to sound great. Yeah tha toggle has come in handy to depressurize the system and leak checks too.

yeah, I made some asshole comment like it sounds exactely like what his teeth would sound like crushing against a steel pipe if he ever did that again.

My MoTeC guy and I had an interesting conversation about the toggle when we were trying to troublshoot why the damn thing would never turn off when I first wired it. I tried to explain why I liked having it, to pressure check it, to prime it, to let the engine turn over for a few seconds without the pump going to get a little heat in the plugs etc etc etc. He had an answer for everything - cycle the key three times, input a negative value in the relay (although the output for the FP also activates the IGN as well so that wouldn't work) He had no easy solution to the depressurizing though. Over the winter I'm going to move the toggle to the rear of the car under an aircraft style saftey switch. Harder to get at, which isn't a bad thing. I'd hate to see the damn thing accidentaly flipped while driving. That could easily chip a seal or at worst pop an engine. Although Dave whitnesses a 13B race car pop a fuel pump fuse on the dyno at full boost. He described the noises it made, I cringed, he said they fixed the short and the thing fired right up and ran fine. No damage. Pretty much the story that sold me on the RA Super Seals.

Originally Posted by Max777

/\ Shit... my sister just messed up my dad's truck in a simmilar way... took all the teeth off the flywheel and the starter... guess who has to fix the damn thing now?

I'm glad you finally got the car sorted, more or less. It's amazing, but even with a build like this, people still run into irratating snags along the way, like how I'm doing right now with my build!

OUCH! How does that happen in a car with a key'ed ignition? Every time one of my dumbass brothers does something like that, I'm always the one that has to fix it as well...

The little things never seem to end. I still have a short list of things that I want to fix as well. Oh well. Projects like ours are never done. It's a fact that I've come to accept.

[Max777]

The IAC was busted... i told her to rev the engine cause it dies when it's cold on the truck. She cranked it, held the key in the start position, and THEN revved it.... which made on hell of a nice "crunch"!

[TitaniumTT]

Owie..... oh well

Alrighty Gents - I'm offto an impromtu dyno session. I'll have my camera and should have my laptop up and running this evening so I can finally hopefully, God willing, post some dyno charts and datalogs

[TitaniumTT]

Alright, well, I guess I better update this.

Finally had a clean dyno session. No fuel pressure problems at all. Started off by running on WG and fartin' around with the various valves and solenoids. For those of you not familiar with the Sequentials, here's a rundown of whats involved.

Turbo Control Valve - TCV located in the exhaust Mani - allows the full exhaust of the rear rotor into the 2ndary turbo
Charge Control Valve - CCV - Located after the 2ndaries compressor to keep the primary from backspooling the 2ndary
Charge Relief Valve - CRV - Vents the 2ndaries boost until it's ready to come online.
Pre-Spool Valve - PSV - works like a wastegate to send exhaust energy to the 2ndary to start spooling it up.

First thing I did was take my spare 2Bar MAP sensor and instal it after the 2ndary compressor and before the CCV so we could log what boost the 2ndary was producing. The only problem is that becuase of a slight pressure drop and us eventually running 14 lbs, I kept "overrunning" that MAP sensor and throwing an error, Oh well, just had to reset the errors between pulls. Started off with the transition occuring @3800 RPM's We made about 20 pulls on Tuesday and got the transition down to almost nothing - .15-.25s of nothing. On the street it feels interesting. Response is instant. The car just wants to take off! I was running ~55 on the highway, ~2700 rpms, blip the throttle to pass someone on the right and BAM! 15lbs of boost and the car just takes off. I'm making 250ft'/lbs by ~3200 rpms and I bet that would be lower. Dave was launching @ 3k on the dyno. In other words, the car goes from vac to 15lbs in ~200-400 RPM! From one log
Time = 5:07.448
TP = 40%
MAP = 90kpa
RPM = 2867
Time = 5:08.583
TP = 100%
MAP = 175kpa
RPM = 3226

So in the time of 1.13 seconds I gained over "12psi" (quoted becuase some of that is vac) in ~350 RPM's. Boost falls a little as the PSV opens to spin the 2ndary, the transistion is a blip and then hold on, torque just takes off.

Since the dyno I've moved the transition to 4000 and started messing around with the valves a little. In the discussions before we even started, Dave and I both came to the realization that the roller is going to slow everything down to the point where it would need to be dialed in on the street. It was great however to get the fuel map dialed in which was almost spot on. Even though we were venturing into areas of the map where we've never been before, our math and logic was almost spot on. A good feeling actually.

So we played with the CCV, opening it earlier or later proved to make the biggest difference in the reponse. We would either get a HUGE surge in torque, which just felt odd, or a slight dip during the transistion and then boost built again. This is what we opted for. After 21 runs (and 101 runs total) it seemed like we were chasing our tails and not getting anywhere, so we decided to call it for the night and head back after some street tuning.

What I discovered on the street was a little dissappointing at first. The dyno puts such a load on the engine that it would actually spool the primary faster. So while on the dyno we were seeing 11+lbs of boost, on the street, in the lower gears, I was seeing about half that. Easy fix, reduce the duty of the PSV becuase it works basically like a WG and viola, 12-15lbs on the primary.

I also incorporated something else that was pretty interesting, WG duty = TP vs RPM. So the more I open the throttle, the more the WG solenoid increases the boost. That made the single biggest difference in the way the car drives. She's MUCH less twitchy on me which is really nice. Much more driveable. She feels like a high-strung V8. No problems rolling through stop signs in high gears and 2k RPMs. Not at all like the previous rotaries that I have driven, this one is DRIVABLE

So the weather is not cooperating with me tonight or I would be out there tonight testing my new idea of surging the 2ndary a little more by PWM'ing the CRV to build more boost in the 2ndary and lessening the transition dip.

Something to try out tomorrow night if the weather, and Alex cooperate. We're heading North to go pick up his LS1.

So there it is, the car is done, and in 10 days or so she'll be stripped down and tossed on a rotisserie Just like I predicted in May.... Oh well.

FWIW though, I am glad I stuck with it despite what everyone said on the evil forum about the twins. They were all wrong, with the exceptions of a few who understood why two smaller turbo's > one large single.

I need to find some GT35R dyno sheets - what everyone told me to do, and compare them to mine and post them up. Show me one single that makes 250ft/lbs by 3200RPM's

[TitaniumTT]

What looks like the NICEST GT35R dyno sheet that I can find




What Dave did. I checked the logs and the last run, run 101 was about 14lbs falling off to about 13


So @ 3200 RPM, I'm making TWICE the torque of a T3 GT35R with an equal length runner mani

By ~46-4700 RPM, the GT35R has caught up. At the end of the run the GT35R is making 25hp more (than my best 405 run with more boost, we never got back into the high 70% duties that we were running before, instead we stopped at 64 - it was after 6 o'clock.) and only ~15ft/lbs more than my best. I like my twins. That is all.

[Nismo]

Someday our cars will meet and they will fornicate, hopefully producing smaller, yet more powerful offspring.

My car with be the giver not the pillow biter.

[EJayCe996]

*High energy orchestra music*
A CHALLENGER APPEARS!

[FC3S Murray]

Well played sir, well played

I am stoked for you Brian. Determination is a mother fucker and you my friend have that, patience and....a deep pocket book Congrats!!

[Nismo]

Originally Posted by EJayCe996

*High energy orchestra music*
A CHALLENGER APPEARS!

Well I don't know about a challenger, Brian is very talented, and I could never match his attention to detail, mine will be much less complicated compared to his twin set up.

[WE3RX7]

Originally Posted by TitaniumTT

I need to find some GT35R dyno sheets - what everyone told me to do, and compare them to mine and post them up. Show me one single that makes 250ft/lbs by 3200RPM's

Sounds like a good challenge to me. I'll take that bet


Congrats man - sorry I missed out on all the fun at Dave's. In the spring when my engine is in the car and ready to roll, I'll probably abuse Dave's dyno as well. We will definitely need to compare notes and I'll need some Motec schooling while we're at it

[WE3RX7]

Originally Posted by Nismo

Someday our cars will meet and they will fornicate, hopefully producing smaller, yet more powerful offspring.

My car with be the giver not the pillow biter.

Wow - thats a scary image. DGRR 2011 it is then, 3 RE FCs in the ultimate circle jerk of power...

In all reality, my setup will be more similar to yours than Brian's with one unique difference