20b Installs

[Herblenny]

Originally Posted by classicauto

You won't be disappointed Phil, they do great stuff. Can't say enough about those guys!!

I know! I'm very impressed with engineering/custom work that goes into designing those pieces and Logan's knowledge on things.

I can't wait to get their kit!! I'll post it up once I get them

[TitaniumTT]

Originally Posted by Bryan@BNR

Titanium.

You should turn the Jspec engine to TDC and then pour ATF in it and let it set. Then after a few days, rotate it and add ATF. After a rotation or so, that should loosen up the seals and break down the carbon build up.

I bought about 25 complete T2 engines that were low compression from a place in california and about 75% of them were carbon locked.

Bryan

Bryan, it's Brian! 13B-RE, sew REW's, I bought a cartridge from you, we talk all the time, we got WAY back I thought about snagging a second motor and trying that trick, but rebuilding it was easier. The first one that was carbon locked popped in Febuary and took out the front rotor and housing. All my seals came in for engine #4 though

Originally Posted by GtoRx7

Titanium, if I was at DGRR I would have voted for your FC too. That is a nice ass car you have there! Finding 385rwhp on seq. twins is a bit of a pain though. 360rwhp is the best power we have gotten out of a seq. twin setup. Your RE engine, depending on your port size, is mis-matched for making high power out of stock REW twins. So its going to be a up-hill battle.

Thanks! I appreciate it. I think the port sizing that I went with is pretty spot on. So far the numbers are 313RWHP on wastegate but creeping to about 9psi @ 7000, and 346 @ 4800 before the fuel issue took over. I think 380's @ 8k are possible on stockers.

You should go to DGRR next year. It was by far, the best show, gathering, anything that I've EVER been to.

Originally Posted by Herblenny

Titanium, I agree.. And I was there and I voted for you You put great deal of work on that car!

Thanks Phil You put your heart and soul into DGRR and it shows. The absolute highlight of my year. I can't wait to get back to next years. I tell everyone that if there is one show to get to, this is the one, without a doubt.

Originally Posted by vex

Yeah B, The megasquirt is a hell of a machine. The software is opensource so what you get is not necessarily what it has to be. If you were so inclined or had connections you could have individuals reprogram the software to be better suited/more user friendly/out of this world program ability, etc. It all depends on the LOE (level of effort), and aforementioned knowledge. I have enough knowledge to sit down and do it... but time is a biggggg factor for me. I don't have the time to sit down and solder the components together and then re-program the machine code and datalogging software, trouble shoot the bugs, etc. and still have my car together in time for my internship and/or school.

The benefit of the Megasquirt is that it's only limited by ones knowledge and ability to alter the hardware and software.

There's my problem right there. I don't have the time or the knowledge to do all of that. I'm a finance/mechanical guy. All that electronic crap is something that I'm just not interested in. Regardless, if it works for you, great, if its the route you want to take, all the better for you. I still, and I know I'm sounding like a prick from a pedastal, but to me there is just no comparision between a MS and a Motec, sorry. Yes the MS in this very thread has surprised me, I'll admit it, but back to back comparisions..........

Edit - Logan - I'm big into doing my own fabrication, I can't think of one part that's under my hood that I didn't build, and HOT DAMN that kit is a work of art. Beautiful, just beauutiful

[GtoRx7]

Originally Posted by TitaniumTT

Thanks! I appreciate it. I think the port sizing that I went with is pretty spot on. So far the numbers are 313RWHP on wastegate but creeping to about 9psi @ 7000, and 346 @ 4800 before the fuel issue took over. I think 380's @ 8k are possible on stockers.

Through alot of testing, n/a and turbo, we have found the RE intake to have a peak torque occurring higher in the rpm band (around 7-8k). The FD intake shows most in the mid-range. The factory twins will only have their time to shine in the 5500-6500 rpm range for peak torque. After that the airflow and heat of the twins will have a hard time going further. Torque will fall like a rock. I still think 380's will be within your grasp, but it may possibly take a FD intake to get there. Who knows for sure, it will be fun either way right?

Originally Posted by TitaniumTT

You should go to DGRR next year. It was by far, the best show, gathering, anything that I've EVER been to.

I am planning on making it next year for sure, even if it means selling all my internal organs

Originally Posted by TitaniumTT

Edit - Logan - I'm big into doing my own fabrication, I can't think of one part that's under my hood that I didn't build, and HOT DAMN that kit is a work of art. Beautiful, just beauutiful

Thanks! We are very happy to hear comments like that!

[charlies7]

I dont really understand how so many people can spend upwards of 30k on there 20b swaps unless a shop is doing ALL the work.

If your smart and shop around you can easily have a killer NA setup for under 10k. However I am fortunate to use the resources at my university and from the local help with tuning and wiring.

Here is my break down if anyone is interested.

20b shortblock -- 1500 shipped, yeah I know I found a deal

20b rebuild -- all the goodies, heavy porting, balancing etc 4500-5000

(3) 13b housings -- price to be determined (prolly around 800)

Haltech platinum sport 2000 -- 1500

lS1 coils "smart coils" -- 150 bucks

Header -- 500 bucks in material (I did the fab work on it)

20b stock subframe mounts -- 100 bucks (again I did the fab work)

Electric meizere 55gpm waterpump refurbished -- 150 bucks

ITB's (untested) 250 bucks in material (again fabbed by me)

Misc. electronics, wiring, sensors -- 800

That is pretty much what I have into the car as it sits now. Its actually less than 10k more like 9k and everything is basically brand new. All the 13b related stuff I sold off almost covered the cost of the entire build so I pretty much broke even on a setup that will be more reliable, sound awesome, and make great power. I cant complain.

[War Eagle]

Originally Posted by charlies7

I dont really understand how so many people can spend upwards of 30k on there 20b swaps unless a shop is doing ALL the work.

Those are some good prices and I look forward to seeing how it turns out. What are you doing for your subframe? The Defined kit looks pretty good. I used the Pettit/Rotary Specialties frame and it works well but it does require modified spindles. Either way, you'll need to add in the $1,500 or so cost for that also. And how about tuning? One the cheap side that would be $500. I've also heard the 13B new housings have shot up in price recently so I would be surprised if they would be under $500 a piece (Ray at Malloy quoted me $750 recently but I am sure they can be had for less). I'm missing a bunch of little things also but you get the point. It adds up quickly.

Now if you can do it all yourself, you'll end up at the $15,000 mark I'm confident. Factor in though selling off all the 13B parts and you'll knock off $6,000 or so from the price. The $30K you see frequently quoted is for the vast majority of us that can't do the work themselves. This is for a turbo setup which adds $5,000 easy into the mix. Most of us have spent way more than the $30K figure but I believe with proper planning, the job can be done for the $30K figure.

[Herblenny]

I agree with David... It does add up. Just recent months I've spent few grand and I'm still not even close to being done.. It just adds up...

I've now given up on the NA 20B idea for the RX3 and decided to build another FI engine to have it as a spare for the Cosmo... and maybe go with BNR's upgraded twins for it. I've heard from some AU/NZ guys that BNR's turbo is making great power and great response for the Cosmo.

[Bryan@BNR]

Originally Posted by Herblenny

I agree with David... It does add up. Just recent months I've spent few grand and I'm still not even close to being done.. It just adds up...

I've now given up on the NA 20B idea for the RX3 and decided to build another FI engine to have it as a spare for the Cosmo... and maybe go with BNR's upgraded twins for it. I've heard from some AU/NZ guys that BNR's turbo is making great power and great response for the Cosmo.

Thats funny b/c I don't hear from those guys. I am glad that the upgrades are working out for them . I hook you up!

[charlies7]

I am using the stock subframe, its very similar to logans kit. I did my own modifications to the steering rack etc. As far as tuning my buddy who tunes is amazing and is going to hook me up. I just paid for 3 T2 housings for a killer deal, so the price has been up a little bit.

The mounting the of the 20b only cost me 200 bucks in material. I bought some 3" aluminum round stock for the actual mounts and turned them down on the lathe and used some 1/4 mild steel plate for the mount brackets.

If anyone needs mounts let me know

Originally Posted by War Eagle

Those are some good prices and I look forward to seeing how it turns out. What are you doing for your subframe? The Defined kit looks pretty good. I used the Pettit/Rotary Specialties frame and it works well but it does require modified spindles. Either way, you'll need to add in the $1,500 or so cost for that also. And how about tuning? One the cheap side that would be $500. I've also heard the 13B new housings have shot up in price recently so I would be surprised if they would be under $500 a piece (Ray at Malloy quoted me $750 recently but I am sure they can be had for less). I'm missing a bunch of little things also but you get the point. It adds up quickly.

Now if you can do it all yourself, you'll end up at the $15,000 mark I'm confident. Factor in though selling off all the 13B parts and you'll knock off $6,000 or so from the price. The $30K you see frequently quoted is for the vast majority of us that can't do the work themselves. This is for a turbo setup which adds $5,000 easy into the mix. Most of us have spent way more than the $30K figure but I believe with proper planning, the job can be done for the $30K figure.

[War Eagle]

Originally Posted by charlies7

I am using the stock subframe, its very similar to logans kit. I did my own modifications to the steering rack etc. As far as tuning my buddy who tunes is amazing and is going to hook me up. I just paid for 3 T2 housings for a killer deal, so the price has been up a little bit.

The mounting the of the 20b only cost me 200 bucks in material. I bought some 3" aluminum round stock for the actual mounts and turned them down on the lathe and used some 1/4 mild steel plate for the mount brackets.

If anyone needs mounts let me know

Maybe you are on to developing the next 20B conversion kit Keep the updates coming.

[charlies7]

Lol nah...

Logan has much more R&D into than me..I am just keeping it simple and making it work with what I want..I dont have PS, AC or anything. However look out for a universal (interchangeable) intake setup..Models to come soon I hope.

[gmonsen]

I will be very curious to see how this works out. I spent what I thought was a fair amount of money building my NA 20b. However, I paid a shop to do it. Even so, if you get this up and running and producing good power at these prices, you should sell a manual and video and everyone will be running them.

Your expected total costs are less than many 13b rebuilds...

Gordon

[RETed]

Originally Posted by charlies7

Here is my break down if anyone is interested.

20b shortblock -- 1500 shipped, yeah I know I found a deal
20b rebuild -- all the goodies, heavy porting, balancing etc 4500-5000
(3) 13b housings -- price to be determined (prolly around 800)
Haltech platinum sport 2000 -- 1500
lS1 coils "smart coils" -- 150 bucks
Header -- 500 bucks in material (I did the fab work on it)
20b stock subframe mounts -- 100 bucks (again I did the fab work)
Electric meizere 55gpm waterpump refurbished -- 150 bucks
ITB's (untested) 250 bucks in material (again fabbed by me)
Misc. electronics, wiring, sensors -- 800

You're missing...
Clutch
Radiator
Possibly oil cooler(s)

On the street, you might get away with "stock" parts, but throw this car on the track, and it's going to overheat.
That adds an easy grand...if not more like couple grand more on the budget.


-Ted

[gmonsen]

I remember how many friends have shown me their build sheets estimating what their builds would cost. I generally found that multiplying by three worked out pretty well. Sometimes four.

I will also admit that when I was first doing this stuff, I made that same mistake. At least a mistake in hindsight. Others may be much more capable than I and my friends have been.

Gordon

[zayrx7]

A full 20b install will run about $25,000 over here at www.rx7store.net. That price include single turbo, ported motor, clutch, fuel, computer and etc.
FYI! here is a teaser pic of a motor I'm working on right now, this will be one badass motor. I should have it done in about a week.

[alvaspeed]

Wow! peripheral ports X2? details please. Is it going in a NA and is it a 3rotor? I can't imagine the intake that is going to be put into this. Very nice monster bridge too.