I need your old fucntioning stock coils

[C. Ludwig]

Originally Posted by TitaniumTT

Yeah the marine world mark-up is outrageous. I have wholesale accts setup though so if you can give me an application or an OEM partnumber, wait.... are you sending me the coils?

No.

339-883778A01 220/225/250 3.0 DFI

[2gslse]

Brian, I am the one that was talking to billy (WE3RX7) about the coils Ludwig gave me a link to them I will buy a set for testing purposes if you want to do it.

[C. Ludwig]

I was just going to say the same thing. If you can get a decent deal worked out I need a set of 6 for a 20B anyway.

[2gslse]

Hmmmm... wholesale hookup???

[TitaniumTT]

Yeah what the hell, I'll test em out.

However, still looking for a set of D510C's so if anyone is looking to do the Yukon LS2 upgrade, buy the D510C's as they are a better coil anyway and we can test those too, however, I think that's about it though. That's a LOT of extra dynoing, I've already logged 101 pulls on this car

[TitaniumTT]

Originally Posted by 2gslse

Brian, I am the one that was talking to billy (WE3RX7) about the coils Ludwig gave me a link to them I will buy a set for testing purposes if you want to do it.

Yeah I remember all that, Bill sent me the link from you from Ludwig, I thought Ludwig was going to send them to me from you etc etc.... just got a wee bit confused though, happens when you're oldER and sleep deprived

Cool though, it'll be interesting for sure for a few reasons, pure 2-stroke, has to fire some nasty shit fuel etc etc.... I'm really curious about these Bosch coils though, they are supposed to be an upgrade from 2nd Gen + MSD6. Crazy right?

[2gslse]

OK I will order a set when are you planning to do testing? I can get the coils back at DGRR. I will need you to PM me your Address so I can ship them to ya.

[NoDOHC]

Wow! I get lost for a few months and Brian has a coil test under way. Great Job Brian!

By the way, in your original post you seemed surprised that you were getting power gains at leaner AFRs, this is completely expected. If you do combustion research, you will see that 0.85-0.90 lambda is optimum for spark-ignited applications. This is independant of boost (although higher chamber temperatures will skew the curve slightly to the rich side). With the cooling you have on that beast, I would expect 12.8-13.2:1 to be your optimal AFR.

Keep up the good work! It will be very useful to the rotary world to have a dyno-proven comparison between the leading ignition solutions.

Like you said, the whole 'my new ignition feels really fast' thing doesn't really prove a thing. Case in point: I was firmly convinced that wiring the 6PI ports open on my '86 was a major improvement in power. Timing it with the G-Tech indicated a significant decrease in low end that resulted is a slower 0-60 time. I was wrong about the major improvement, no mater how sure I was about it.

[TitaniumTT]

Originally Posted by 2gslse

OK I will order a set when are you planning to do testing? I can get the coils back at DGRR. I will need you to PM me your Address so I can ship them to ya.

Sorry I missed this.

Planning on doing the testing in the early pary of April.
I'll definately bring them to DGRRX
I'll PM ya in a bit with the shipping addy. Also going to need whatever connectors are needed to feed them power, gnd, and signal. Do you know what plug wire ends they use? Please say LSX

Originally Posted by NoDOHC

Wow! I get lost for a few months and Brian has a coil test under way. Great Job Brian!

By the way, in your original post you seemed surprised that you were getting power gains at leaner AFRs, this is completely expected. If you do combustion research, you will see that 0.85-0.90 lambda is optimum for spark-ignited applications. This is independant of boost (although higher chamber temperatures will skew the curve slightly to the rich side). With the cooling you have on that beast, I would expect 12.8-13.2:1 to be your optimal AFR.

Yeah I know, but in the pig rich arena, like low .7L's or 10-10.5, when we went up a touch from there, we made big gains in power. More so than other turbo rotary's would have jumped up. Dave and I went to a few other dyno sheets from other cars and my jumps were much more than thiers when making similar changes to L

I think 13.2 (.9L) is really pushing it on pump with no AI on a turbo. @ 13.6 (.92L) without adjusting the timing we warped a few Apex seals. .85L is about as high as I'm willing to go.

Originally Posted by NoDOHC

Keep up the good work! It will be very useful to the rotary world to have a dyno-proven comparison between the leading ignition solutions.

Thanks man, I agree, we need something like this across the board. I've seen some RX8 to other coil comparisions, but I think this will be interesting to say the least.

Originally Posted by NoDOHC

Like you said, the whole 'my new ignition feels really fast' thing doesn't really prove a thing. Case in point: I was firmly convinced that wiring the 6PI ports open on my '86 was a major improvement in power. Timing it with the G-Tech indicated a significant decrease in low end that resulted is a slower 0-60 time. I was wrong about the major improvement, no mater how sure I was about it.

Been there too. I want a G-tech, what do you think of that little thing? Accurate, repeatable?

About the only thing that I would listen to objectively would be idle quality/stability and ease of starting. I'm really looking forward to testing the Bosch coils, the D510C's and the stock FC with the MSD box. I'm not sure where I want to put my money on that one.

[TitaniumTT]

In speaking with my MoTeC contact I mentioned this little experiment and he offered to loan me his M&W CDI box with 4 quicksiler coils

so now we have -

Stock FC Coils
Stock FC Coils with an MSD 6Al box
Stock FD Coils
Stock RX8 Coils
D580 Coils
D585/D510C coils
QuickSilver coils
QuickSilver coils with an M&W CDI box
and of course, the top secret Bosch Coils



Damn that's going to be a long day, I better get a hotel in PA

[C. Ludwig]

Very interested to see the results!

Not to discredit what you are doing but it would seem you have well more than one days work before you. To interpret results from each would require the time to optimize for each setup. Also, at your current power/boost level the true benefits of a CDI probably aren't going to be noticed over a good inductive coil. Just my .02.

[TitaniumTT]

Well, I want to get all the dyno's done in one day to keep the conditions the same. The interpretations can be done later on. I'm also of the mind that the tests should be done citeris paribus - all other things being equal meaning that the fuel/spark curves shouldn't be altered at all. Whichever setup comes out on top (or if there are two that are within 1.5-2% of each other) we'll spend the time to optimize a little. I really think I'm giving up a little on top for a few reasons, I want to get the coils out of the equation first.

I actually kinda hope its NOT the M&W setup though, I don't wanna spend that coin ontop of the bosch coils I agree though that the torque levels that I'm out aren't really a requirement of a CDI system. Not to mention the internal dynamics of the rotary are also more conducive to an inductive spark, but that's my theory.

[C. Ludwig]

Originally Posted by TitaniumTT

Not to mention the internal dynamics of the rotary are also more conducive to an inductive spark, but that's my theory.

Mine too! Hope to see it proven out.

[2gslse]

Brian I recieved the merc marine coils that ludwig likes to use just let me know when you want me to ship them to ya for the torture the FC coil dyno day.

[C. Ludwig]

Originally Posted by 2gslse

Brian I recieved the merc marine coils that ludwig likes to use just let me know when you want me to ship them to ya for the torture the FC coil dyno day.

Working with a GT35R FD right now that is running these coils with a PFC. The PFC means we have no choice but to run wastespark, making this an ideal candidate for the Merc coils. Car has been running the coils for about 2 years with a 16 psi pump gas tune. We installed an FJO water injection system and we currently have the car running 20-21 psi spraying 50/50 water/meth at a max rate off 800cc total flow and the ignition has peformed flawlessly at anything leaner than 10:1. When I first started roughing the high boost tune in it was pig rich and we had bad breakup. As soon as we leaned it out enough to get the wideband actually reading 10+ it cleaned up and ran great. Hope to have the final tune and dyno numbers this week.

Programmed charge time on the coils is 3mS up to 4000 rpm. The next break point in the PFC is 8000 and I have the charge time ramped up to 3.5 there.

This is the first experience I've had with these coils and any amount of water injection. We've run cars to around 24 psi with straight meth on these but I was very curious to see how they would react with the water. I'm very pleased to say the least.