SSM RX7 Build

[Rotary Afterfire]

I see that you said that you are relocating your wastegates...any idea of what you are going to do to them? Just extend the runners rearward?

[josh18_2k]

Originally Posted by cturbo28

Good point but I do not have any "ducts" in or on my car. Also the cardboard was just used as a template (only good picture I had). The final design is 4 inches away from the IC. This means that the hood has a "vent". Rules say hoods are free. Also my hood is vented less than most after market bling bling ones. Thanks for the concern.

dont mean to call you out, this has been a confusing rule for me, and probably a pile of other people. They say no ducting after the radiator, but hood is free, so theres all kinds of room for interpretation there. isnt a fan shroud considered ducting? how far away from the rad/intercooler does the hood material have to be to not be considered ducting? i know you've been running with the big boys for a while, so maybe you've accumulated a clearer defination than i have.

[tomsn16]

Pics of the final hood vent. No issues with the big boys at Nationals this year that we know of.

[speedjunkie]

Originally Posted by cturbo28

Answers for speedjunkie:

Do you have fans mounted to the back of your oil coolers? Yes one 10" fan.

Do you have any problems with oil drainage from the turbo to the pan? Not at all, and I am using the front drain also. I believe I use -10AN on that one.

Did you get that exhaust flange from Racing Beat? Yes

Did you use 304 or 321 for that runner? 321 SS from Burns stainless. everything is 321 up to the 4". The 4" exhaust is 409 and it starts at about the rear of the transmission.

Are you running water/coolant to those wastegates? Not at this time. This is one of my next season projects because I have over heated the rear diaphragm twice at a race limiting my boost to 15psi which = slow. Also I might have to relocate the WG since it is close to the DP.

I can't believe you were able to route the WG dump back into the exhaust too, that's awesome. It was not easy, also in SSM we cannot run open WG's. All exhaust must exit rearward of the rear axles.

What brand IC core is that? Did you do the same size piping on both ends of the IC? the IC is a cheap ebay core, I was experimenting and did not want to spend big bucks on a IC if it did not work. Also it is 2.5" in and out. I think I have pretty good response if not too much sometimes. Bell IC cores would be my first choice too.

Have you ever used a different IC and different exhaust manifold with that turbo? If so, is there a noticeable difference in response between this setup and that one? I have not had anything different, I plan to change something this year if I have time. I went from a stock set up to this so with that it was a BIG difference.

Ok, I thought I might have seen evidence of that, but I thought maybe those things were just holding the screen on the back.

So glad to hear you don't have any issues with oil drainage. I'm kinda worried about the waste gate being heat soaked though, but I guess water cooling will help that. Have you thought about where you're going to get the water from and route it back to? Where are you thinking of relocating it to? Have you thought about making a heat shield for that WG?

Is there any concern welding the 321 to the 304? Mainly about cracking where the 321 meets the 304 flange? About the 4" though, is it not started at the back of the turbo? Or are you saying you started using 409 at the rear of the tranny and prior to that it's 321? That must have been pricy for all that 321 lol. So THAT'S why you plumbed them back into the exhaust. I wonder if there is some kind of quick disconnect for that piping to make it easier to connect.

Yeah I can understand using a cheap core for an experiment. Do you notice any drawbacks to that ebay core? I guess it's working for you if you're racing with it lol. I'm still wary of what size core to get, I'd rather experiment with a cheap core too but if it works I don't want to build another one with a name brand core. Although maybe it would still be worth it to try.

So as far as response, what would you say about how much difference there is between this and stock twins?

That fuel setup is crazy haha. I'd love to do something like that, I'm just not sure what all to do.

Thanks for the help!

[cturbo28]

Originally Posted by josh18_2k

dont mean to call you out, this has been a confusing rule for me, and probably a pile of other people. They say no ducting after the radiator, but hood is free, so theres all kinds of room for interpretation there. isnt a fan shroud considered ducting? how far away from the rad/intercooler does the hood material have to be to not be considered ducting? i know you've been running with the big boys for a while, so maybe you've accumulated a clearer defination than i have.

No problem, It is always good to get another opinion on the interpretation of the rules. They are confusing. I have not received a clearer definition but my competition has not had an issue with it. They even ask why I did not run the opening all the way up to the IC.....

[Rotary Afterfire]

guess my posts dont show up or something

[cturbo28]

Originally Posted by Rotary Afterfire

I see that you said that you are relocating your wastegates...any idea of what you are going to do to them? Just extend the runners rearward?

Yea, I missed the question.

First I am going to water cool them and see if that helps. I currently have the rear wastegate wrapped with heat shielding but it still melts the diaphragm. My plan is to pull the engine soon for a swap and investigate what I can do to help the issue. I really do not have a good fix at this time nor do I want to re make the manifold or DP.

[cturbo28]

Originally Posted by speedjunkie

Have you thought about where you're going to get the water from and route it back to? Where are you thinking of relocating it to? Have you thought about making a heat shield for that WG?

Is there any concern welding the 321 to the 304? Mainly about cracking where the 321 meets the 304 flange? About the 4" though, is it not started at the back of the turbo? Or are you saying you started using 409 at the rear of the tranny and prior to that it's 321? That must have been pricy for all that 321 lol.

Do you notice any drawbacks to that ebay core? I guess it's working for you if you're racing with it lol. I'm still wary of what size core to get, I'd rather experiment with a cheap core too but if it works I don't want to build another one with a name brand core.

So as far as response, what would you say about how much difference there is between this and stock twins?

See above post on WG answer. On the exhaust, I really do not know if welding the two different types hurt anything but I have not had any problems so far. the breakdown of the material is this.

1. Manifold 321ss
2. 3" vband 304ss
4. 3" to 3.5 transition 321ss
5. DP 3'5" 321ss
6. flex joint 304 ss
7. 3.5 to 4" transition 321ss
8. 4" straight section 26"s, 321ss (removable to be straight or Magna flow)
9. 4" from #8 back to Magna flow in rear 409ss

My plan was to run 20 ga. 321 all the way back but it was hard to justify the cost to material advantage.

On the IC, my intake temps get a little high. 145F-175F range during a race on a 90+ degree days. Not sure if it is the IC or the nature of the beast. I usually run 19-21psi so the intake temps get up there. The example I pulled up happened to be a little cooler day might have been 80 degrees at the most. not really sure.

The stock twins are no comparison to the single I have on it now. Best way I can explain it is it would be the difference in a C6 Z06 compared to a stock RX-8.

[Rotary Afterfire]

Originally Posted by cturbo28

Yea, I missed the question.

First I am going to water cool them and see if that helps. I currently have the rear wastegate wrapped with heat shielding but it still melts the diaphragm. My plan is to pull the engine soon for a swap and investigate what I can do to help the issue. I really do not have a good fix at this time nor do I want to re make the manifold or DP.

ok, since Im going to be fabricating kind of based on what you have, I was interested in what you were going to do to remedy the diaphragm problem. Perhaps bringing the front w/g forward off the runner towards the headlights and extending the dump-to-dp pipe to the same location and extending the rear w/g rearward and have it dump further down in the dp. Hopefully water-cooling will help and I can copy that too lol. Good luck.

[speedjunkie]

Originally Posted by cturbo28

See above post on WG answer. On the exhaust, I really do not know if welding the two different types hurt anything but I have not had any problems so far. the breakdown of the material is this.

1. Manifold 321ss
2. 3" vband 304ss
4. 3" to 3.5 transition 321ss
5. DP 3'5" 321ss
6. flex joint 304 ss
7. 3.5 to 4" transition 321ss
8. 4" straight section 26"s, 321ss (removable to be straight or Magna flow)
9. 4" from #8 back to Magna flow in rear 409ss

My plan was to run 20 ga. 321 all the way back but it was hard to justify the cost to material advantage.

On the IC, my intake temps get a little high. 145F-175F range during a race on a 90+ degree days. Not sure if it is the IC or the nature of the beast. I usually run 19-21psi so the intake temps get up there. The example I pulled up happened to be a little cooler day might have been 80 degrees at the most. not really sure.

The stock twins are no comparison to the single I have on it now. Best way I can explain it is it would be the difference in a C6 Z06 compared to a stock RX-8.

OK gotcha, so you already made a heat shield and still doesn't help. Well, shit. I guess water and/or relocation is the only choice then. Have you ever wrapped the DP as well to try to help with that or is it against the rules?

I'm not sure how you kept all those materials and locations straight in your mind haha, but thanks for the info! I thought you went straight from the Vband on the turbo to a 4" DP. Gotcha. And I can completely understand not doing the whole thing in 321ss, not worth the benefit vs cost. Was there a specific reason you got an RB flange? Someone else suggested getting that one too but I don't yet know why. I'll get it anyway though, no biggie.

As far as the cooling efficiency of the IC, I've never measured my temps so I wouldn't know how they compare to yours, but I know current VMIC works pretty well as far as cooling. I just think I might be able to get less pressure drop with something with smoother flowing end tanks. Then comes the problem of the air moving too fast to be cooled efficiently...and for that I was going to use 2.75" exit and 3" entrance piping. But flow/CFM is where I'm stuck right now. Not that it really matters, I'm not racing, just trying to give my all to build my favorite street car haha. MAYBE it'll see the track someday, but I've never paid attention to rules and regulations so I'm so far past it now and it's not worth going back.

So you're saying the single responds faster than the stock twins? Or are you talking just about the power it delivers? I didn't think any single would respond as fast as the twins. I was hoping short runners and an efficient IC would help though.

Sorry for all the questions, but thanks for responding anyway.

Originally Posted by Rotary Afterfire

ok, since Im going to be fabricating kind of based on what you have, I was interested in what you were going to do to remedy the diaphragm problem. Perhaps bringing the front w/g forward off the runner towards the headlights and extending the dump-to-dp pipe to the same location and extending the rear w/g rearward and have it dump further down in the dp. Hopefully water-cooling will help and I can copy that too lol. Good luck.

I think only the rear WG was being affected though, since he mentioned it being close to the DP. I'm curious how the front is working too though.

[cturbo28]

Originally Posted by Rotary Afterfire

ok, since Im going to be fabricating kind of based on what you have, I was interested in what you were going to do to remedy the diaphragm problem. Perhaps bringing the front w/g forward off the runner towards the headlights and extending the dump-to-dp pipe to the same location and extending the rear w/g rearward and have it dump further down in the dp. Hopefully water-cooling will help and I can copy that too lol. Good luck.

Cool, glad to see another fabricator. just stay tuned to the thread and I will let you know how the relocation goes and or the cooling. My racing season starts in March so I need to do something before then.

Originally Posted by speedjunkie

OK gotcha, so you already made a heat shield and still doesn't help. Well, shit. I guess water and/or relocation is the only choice then. Have you ever wrapped the DP as well to try to help with that or is it against the rules?

I'm not sure how you kept all those materials and locations straight in your mind haha, but thanks for the info! I thought you went straight from the Vband on the turbo to a 4" DP. Gotcha. And I can completely understand not doing the whole thing in 321ss, not worth the benefit vs cost. Was there a specific reason you got an RB flange? Someone else suggested getting that one too but I don't yet know why. I'll get it anyway though, no biggie.

As far as the cooling efficiency of the IC, I've never measured my temps so I wouldn't know how they compare to yours, but I know current VMIC works pretty well as far as cooling. I just think I might be able to get less pressure drop with something with smoother flowing end tanks. Then comes the problem of the air moving too fast to be cooled efficiently...and for that I was going to use 2.75" exit and 3" entrance piping. But flow/CFM is where I'm stuck right now. Not that it really matters, I'm not racing, just trying to give my all to build my favorite street car haha. MAYBE it'll see the track someday, but I've never paid attention to rules and regulations so I'm so far past it now and it's not worth going back.

So you're saying the single responds faster than the stock twins? Or are you talking just about the power it delivers? I didn't think any single would respond as fast as the twins. I was hoping short runners and an efficient IC would help though.

Sorry for all the questions, but thanks for responding anyway.

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I think only the rear WG was being affected though, since he mentioned it being close to the DP. I'm curious how the front is working too though.

I was planning to do 3.5" all the way back but I changed my mind half way through the project. No reason, that is just the way it turned out. Also I would not bother with over thinking the IC, we are not building F1 cars. Just get what fits and build it. Over analyzing things will just slow you down.

I will post my dyno chart and let you figure out if the twins are better. Although for a street car I would get a bigger turbo like a GT35 or so. The street is another world compared to auto crossing.

[speedjunkie]

I was on the computer at work when I responded last so I didn't even see the graph you posted then lol. I'm eager to see how you remedy the WG issue, and the routing of the cooling lines as well.

I hear ya. I've thought about that myself, especially since I probably won't even plan to race it anymore haha.

I have a 500R-SP currently, and I'm putting in a BW EFR 7670 when I get home. That's what this manifold will be for.

Thanks!

[Brent]

Originally Posted by cturbo28

Also I would not bother with over thinking the IC, we are not building F1 cars. Just get what fits and build it. Over analyzing things will just slow you down.

Truer words have never been spoken

[speedjunkie]

^I agree, but I also don't want to end up going with a different design and end up with worse results, know what I mean? I'm trying to move forward here, not backwards LOL.

[cturbo28]

I have started my engine swap on the FD. I will be doing this in stages so I can make the races I plan to attend. I am trying not to get too many projects going at once.

Stage 1:

Engine swap, built by David Jerome.
Excessive LIM ( Thanks Jeff Kiesel)
Newer transmission from 36K donor car (Thanks tomsn16)
Swap diffs (I was planning on testing out some things for the first race)
Addition of EGT probes so I can log the exhaust temp. (Thanks Ludwig)
Addition of back pressure sensor to log pressure in manifold. (Thanks Ludwig)
Fix damaged fender ( Thanks to my body shop dude and Brent for the donation!)
Dyno tune ( Ludwig)

Stage 2:

Electric water pump controlled via Ludwig installed Haltech
Electric power steering pump from S2000
Relocate Alternator. ( not yet decided)
Maybe play with different exhaust housing based on the data from stage 1 results.


Also here are some pictures of the damage I did last Sunday.