Rear camber adjustment

Ender · 02-05-2009, 11:23 AM

My TII has terrible negative camber in the rear, and I believe it's uneven as well (one side has more negative camber than the other). I had this problem even before I lowered the car, so that ultimately isn't the cause. I see Racing Beat and RotorSports offer rear camber adjusters, but I'd like to know how they work and what their products can do to solve my problem. For now I'd like to just return the car's alignment to factory spec, that's what Intrax suggested for street/track use.

From what I can tell, Racing Beat's rear camber adjuster ($116) replaces one fixed length link near the middle of the rear subframe. It's item 14008. "The immediate range of adjustment is .60 degrees less negative camber to .77 degrees more negative camber. With careful inspection and possibly some minor dimpling of the floor pan, this range can be nearly doubled." First off, I don't know if I can reach factory spec using that, and I also don't know if it will even out the camber between both rear wheels. That's one reason RotorSport's solution sounds better at first glance.

RotorSport's camber adjusters, you need two: AWR E015R/L ($175/pair). "Locking adjuster to facilitate positive camber adjustments. Control camber individually for both rear wheels." What I don't get is where you install them...

I'm also curious about other options, I just haven't seen other adjusters yet.

Turbovert · 02-05-2009, 11:34 AM

Well the racing beat one just pulls up on the subframe to make the camber go positive. If i had to do it over again i would get the individual camber adjusters. The most i could get out of my camber bar was about a degree. Both my rear tires are still at -2 or so, which i would like to fix. As for where they install, i wouldnt know.

Roen · 02-05-2009, 12:05 PM

The individual camber adjusters replace the stock camber links on the rear control arms of the car. They're good when used with stock bushings (because of the slop) or spherical bearings, but if you're thinking of using polyurethane or some other stiffer bushings (delrin, UHMW, etc.), then you can't adjust a large armount with the individual adjusters, at the risk of suspension binding.

Actually both adjusters work, by altering the angle of the suspension, which leads to the side effect of a lot of bushing twisting. The individual adjusters will twist the control arm bushing, while the center link will twist the subframe bushings.

The best thing to do, IMHO, is to get both the center adjuster link (I wouldn't get the racing beat, if I remember correctly, you have to take the link off the car, adjust it then put it back on. I'd look at Mazdatrix's link instead.) and the individual adjusters. (I don't know much about Rotorsports, if they're reselling the AWR links, then I'd get the Mazdatrix links since they are modified AWR links with zirc fittings for street use)

You would then use the center adjust link to remove the majority of your negative rear camber and then use the individual adjusters to fine-tune your camber. That way, you could run a car with stiffer bushings, proper camber specs and a low risk of binding. Just make sure you use stock subframe bushings.

Ender · 02-05-2009, 12:27 PM

Sweet, good to know. Could you explain suspension binding? And spherical bearings??

classicauto · 02-05-2009, 12:42 PM

If you look at the cam bolt holding the outer arm of the rear trailing arm, that's where the AWR bearings would go.

As you can imagine, the "wish bone" trailing armspivot on both the cam'd bolt point, and the point where the adjustable links go. When you put the adjustable links up or down, you're twisting the other joint. At a certain point, that joint will bind because it wasn't meant to turn in such a way. The spherical bearings allow it to do so.

That said, I run the individual adjusters on my car, and dial'd out quite a bit of the camber, just enough so the outer joint still works smoothly. Any more and I'd need the AWR bearings.

Ender · 02-23-2009, 04:53 PM

Ok, I think I'm gonna go ahead and fix this in the next couple weeks so I can travel with the '7 without destroying more tires, and so I can get better grip. I think I'll buy all three of these products:
http://www.awrracing.com/store/produ...products_id=80
http://www.awrracing.com/store/produ...products_id=86
http://www.awrracing.com/store/produ...roducts_id=475

I could buy the the adjusters and/or the camber rod from Mazdatrix and the spherical bearings from AWR, but that will incur another shipping charge and the totals without shipping differ by only $15. How necessary would the zirc fittings be that Mazdatrix supposedly puts on the adjusters?

Another question is: will a shop be able to competently align the car with these aftermarket parts installed? The whole point of this now is getting the alignment set up properly while avoiding suspension binding. I understand the principles here, I just don't feel I have the proper resources to fine tune it myself. Perhaps, if I knew how to quantify the adjustments. Can you set up camber very well with a level if the car sits 'perfectly' flat? After I install these parts could I put the rear on my ramps and adjust the camber myself? I'm thinking I could, but confirmation would be good.

Max777 · 02-23-2009, 06:15 PM

hmm, together that would add up to quite a lot of $$$, almost $600 with shipping!

josh18_2k · 02-23-2009, 07:21 PM

such is the nature of a lowered FC...
my recommendation- get the individual adjusters only, then go get your alignment. fair warning, they will poke a hole in the bottom of your storage bin (not a big deal really). if you manage to max out these adjusters, then buy a center bar. it shouldnt happen tho- the indiv adjusters have a pretty decent range.

binding is only an issue w/ the indivs if you have poly control arm bushings. stock is fine, but if you wanna upgrade, go spherical bearing (another 220 bucks)

also, if this is just a street car without too much power, i wouldnt bother with the control arm bushings/bearings. they only deflect under hard acceleration, and would only really be noticable on sticky tires with a good amount of force (ie, slicks and lots of power).
when it does deflect, it will just toe in, essentially giving you more stability.
thats probably the last part i would throw at the rear suspension.

Ender · 02-23-2009, 08:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Max777

hmm, together that would add up to quite a lot of $$$, almost $600 with shipping!

I'm aware of that. I want to fix it right though. I'll take Josh's suggestion and get the individual adjusters and see where they get me.

Max777 · 02-23-2009, 09:47 PM

Yeah, I was going to get the bar myself, but after reading this, the individuals just make more sense.

firzen · 02-24-2009, 12:38 PM

Ideally in a good economic situation, you'd have both the individuals and the bar. I never lowered my car so didn't have a need for the individual adjusters.

In case you're looking at the AWR links, there are also a set from MMR. They're pretty new in the catalogue and I haven't heard anybody run them yet but maybe somebody here wants to give them a shot and let the rest of us know?
http://mmr-direct.com/catalog1/RX7FC/index.htm

I happen to have a spare camber bar sitting around in case anybody's interested...

josh18_2k · 02-24-2009, 12:48 PM

those links are not adjustable on the car. it would be a real pain in the ass to set camber. go with AWR

02-05-2009, 11:34 AM	#2
Turbovert The Newbie Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Nebraska iTrader: (0) Posts: 10 Rep Power: 0	Well the racing beat one just pulls up on the subframe to make the camber go positive. If i had to do it over again i would get the individual camber adjusters. The most i could get out of my camber bar was about a degree. Both my rear tires are still at -2 or so, which i would like to fix. As for where they install, i wouldnt know. __________________ Skyler '90 Vert Turbo. 3in, streetport, profec 2, ACT clutch and Flywheel, Apexi Power FC, BNR Stage 4, RC 750cc Primaries 1600cc secondaries, Coolingmist WI, Tanabe GF210's, Tokico Struts, 361rwhp and 288ft lb on 15.6lbs, no IC. Steve Kan tuned

02-23-2009, 06:15 PM	#7
Max777 Pirate Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Central IL iTrader: (5) Posts: 1,323 Rep Power: 18	hmm, together that would add up to quite a lot of $$$, almost $600 with shipping! __________________ Rotaries:They are NOT that complicated!

02-23-2009, 07:21 PM	#8
josh18_2k Rotary Fanatic Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Gresham, OR iTrader: (0) Posts: 473 Rep Power: 17	such is the nature of a lowered FC... my recommendation- get the individual adjusters only, then go get your alignment. fair warning, they will poke a hole in the bottom of your storage bin (not a big deal really). if you manage to max out these adjusters, then buy a center bar. it shouldnt happen tho- the indiv adjusters have a pretty decent range. binding is only an issue w/ the indivs if you have poly control arm bushings. stock is fine, but if you wanna upgrade, go spherical bearing (another 220 bucks) also, if this is just a street car without too much power, i wouldnt bother with the control arm bushings/bearings. they only deflect under hard acceleration, and would only really be noticable on sticky tires with a good amount of force (ie, slicks and lots of power). when it does deflect, it will just toe in, essentially giving you more stability. thats probably the last part i would throw at the rear suspension. __________________ Last edited by josh18_2k; 02-23-2009 at 07:26 PM..

02-23-2009, 09:47 PM	#10
Max777 Pirate Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Central IL iTrader: (5) Posts: 1,323 Rep Power: 18	Yeah, I was going to get the bar myself, but after reading this, the individuals just make more sense. __________________ Rotaries:They are NOT that complicated!

02-24-2009, 12:48 PM	#12
josh18_2k Rotary Fanatic Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Gresham, OR iTrader: (0) Posts: 473 Rep Power: 17	those links are not adjustable on the car. it would be a real pain in the ass to set camber. go with AWR __________________

02-05-2009, 12:05 PM	#3
Roen Evil Club Mod Join Date: Feb 2008 iTrader: (0) Posts: 183 Rep Power: 17	The individual camber adjusters replace the stock camber links on the rear control arms of the car. They're good when used with stock bushings (because of the slop) or spherical bearings, but if you're thinking of using polyurethane or some other stiffer bushings (delrin, UHMW, etc.), then you can't adjust a large armount with the individual adjusters, at the risk of suspension binding. Actually both adjusters work, by altering the angle of the suspension, which leads to the side effect of a lot of bushing twisting. The individual adjusters will twist the control arm bushing, while the center link will twist the subframe bushings. The best thing to do, IMHO, is to get both the center adjuster link (I wouldn't get the racing beat, if I remember correctly, you have to take the link off the car, adjust it then put it back on. I'd look at Mazdatrix's link instead.) and the individual adjusters. (I don't know much about Rotorsports, if they're reselling the AWR links, then I'd get the Mazdatrix links since they are modified AWR links with zirc fittings for street use) You would then use the center adjust link to remove the majority of your negative rear camber and then use the individual adjusters to fine-tune your camber. That way, you could run a car with stiffer bushings, proper camber specs and a low risk of binding. Just make sure you use stock subframe bushings.

02-24-2009, 12:38 PM	#11
firzen Rotary Fanatic Join Date: Mar 2008 iTrader: (2) Posts: 231 Rep Power: 17	Ideally in a good economic situation, you'd have both the individuals and the bar. I never lowered my car so didn't have a need for the individual adjusters. In case you're looking at the AWR links, there are also a set from MMR. They're pretty new in the catalogue and I haven't heard anybody run them yet but maybe somebody here wants to give them a shot and let the rest of us know? http://mmr-direct.com/catalog1/RX7FC/index.htm I happen to have a spare camber bar sitting around in case anybody's interested...