Fenda's uber garage Engine Build

[Fendamonky]

Originally Posted by TitaniumTT

There's really no need for any of that anyway.

Oh, I realize that there isn't any real need for the fancy shmancy custom CR rotors and such (I was initially musing as something to consider several years down the road). At this point I'm just shooting to get the car running happily again.

Originally Posted by Brian

What is the ULTIMATE HP goal? Remembering that @ 469 you were basically dead even with the FC @ 375

I would like to be able to touch on/around 500whp whenever I want by upping the boost that the computer allows. HOWEVER, I'll still probably just drive around on WG pressure 95% of the time. 370whp is plenty for messing around on the street and having fun in twisties... bumping the boost up to make 430 and then 500 would really only be used to sort out arrogance on the highway

Originally Posted by Brian

No need for all this custom comp shit for what you're doing. Just find an S4 n/a rotor that's within a weight range of what you've got, send it to Chip and be done with it. Order new bearings... ALL THE BEARINGS... an eshaft, oil pump, blah blah blah and get it back together.... then ship it to me to wire in the LR and tune the bitch...

Oh, I agree. If I had everything else I needed already (and some spare cash) than it would be a no brainer... However, I'm sitting at $0 in my car fund (had to divert the $1,500 I had to a Lawyer to help fix how my command has been fucking me for the past few years) and before I can even consider the wiring harness I'm gunna need coils (thinking I'll go with the Sakebomb setup $510), the new CAS/Trigger kit from FFE ($225). And I'd *really* like to go with the FFE engine mounts this time ($420)..
Total for Engine associated bits: $1,155

Engine wise I need the new bearings ($90+/- for the rotor bearings), the rear stat gear bearing ($40-$50), the front stat gear ($120), the front stack (approx $100), the E-Shaft ($190ish), Oil control rings for one rotor ($170 +/-), lapping/nitrating of the center iron ($220), a new rotor ($100 est), machining/balancing of that rotor ($400 approx), I already have the soft seals... I'm probably missing something, but I think that's the main chunk of the internal engine.
Total for Internal engine: $1,440

Harness wise I'll need the wiring materials, connectors, boots, tubing, bulkhead connectors, etc., etc., etc.. I think we worked out the cost of raw materials to be somewhere in the $800-$1000 range, depending on how much we ended up using and quality.. That's not even touching on what I'll pay you for your time invested, tools required, and experience used to make it right from the start (this labor cost will be your call)...And I've still got to factor in the EGT sensors/modules, the second MAP sensor, the boost control solenoid, I'd *like* to have a Toucan display plugged in (somewhere in the ballpark of $800-$900 iirc) so I can monitor all the values I don't have gauges for and adjust settings on the fly).
Estimated total to make the brain-box work: $2,000


(Approximate) Grand total to get this bitch running where I want it: $4,600 (this is NOT taking into account tuning costs or labor for yours truly)

I'm currently sitting at $0 in the kitty for the car... I'll chip away at it little by little, but I'm thinking there is no way in hell I'll have this finished before October.

Originally Posted by Brian

With the amount of interest that has accrued, the FC, the 8, the XJ and the FC next year get washed... bitches

I'll have my CBR down there most likely, we can have Chris and Bawb pose on it for the car washing photo-op

[TitaniumTT]

Originally Posted by Fendamonky

Oh, I realize that there isn't any real need for the fancy shmancy custom CR rotors and such (I was initially musing as something to consider several years down the road). At this point I'm just shooting to get the car running happily again.

Than don't even consider it. For what you're looking to do, it's basically a no brainer at this point in time... KISS!

Originally Posted by Fendamonky

I would like to be able to touch on/around 500whp whenever I want by upping the boost that the computer allows. HOWEVER, I'll still probably just drive around on WG pressure 95% of the time. 370whp is plenty for messing around on the street and having fun in twisties... bumping the boost up to make 430 and then 500 would really only be used to sort out arrogance on the highway

Again, this is a no brainer. It can be done on a bone stock block with different apex seals (although not necessary - XLR8) and a PFC. I've done it. Do I like it? No, will it last a long time? No. Fuck... I tuned an REW with a PFC and an aquamist to 540rwhp on a BW @ 24psi and homeboy beat the FUCK out of it for 2 or 3 years, drag racing EVERY possible weekend, beat the shit out of it on the street until it finally started to loose compression. When it was torn down he had a small dent in a stock rotor, the Apex seals were worn to fuck, and the so were the housings... looked like he missed a few tanks of premix.... there's no need to get all fancy to make 500rwhp... as fucked as that sounds...


Ok.... here's what I would do If I were you..... take it as you will....

Originally Posted by Fendamonky

before I can even consider the wiring harness I'm gunna need coils (thinking I'll go with the Sakebomb setup $510),

Wait a few weeks until I get the IGN and D585 coils on the dyno, pick which one I say, and buy the coils, about $75/ea regardless of model.

Originally Posted by Fendamonky

CAS/Trigger kit from FFE ($225).

Yes

Originally Posted by Fendamonky

And I'd *really* like to go with the FFE engine mounts this time ($420)..

Do not need

Originally Posted by Fendamonky

Engine wise I need the new bearings ($90+/- for the rotor bearings), the rear stat gear bearing ($40-$50), the front stat gear ($120), the front stack (approx $100), the E-Shaft ($190ish), Oil control rings for one rotor ($170 +/-), lapping/nitrating of the center iron ($220), a new rotor ($100 est), machining/balancing of that rotor ($400 approx), I already have the soft seals... I'm probably missing something, but I think that's the main chunk of the internal engine.
Total for Internal engine: $1,440

All of that, plus new Apex seals... give me the old ones

Originally Posted by Fendamonky

Harness wise I'll need the wiring materials, connectors, boots, tubing, bulkhead connectors, etc., etc., etc.. I think we worked out the cost of raw materials to be somewhere in the $800-$1000 range, depending on how much we ended up using and quality.. That's not even touching on what I'll pay you for your time invested, tools required, and experience used to make it right from the start (this labor cost will be your call)...

Harness.... here's what's probably going to happen. Building the engine harness is only one aspect of it. You've still got to integrate it to the stock chassis harness, fuses and relays need to be mounted in the cabin. relocate the battery? Get rid of that click click click start FD bullshit... all of that. I'm telling you, it's going to be cheaper and easier by MONTHS if you just bring me the car, and 30 hours of labor later, pick it up to drive away and break it in. 30 hours for someone who has done this countless times will equate to 90-120 hours for a first-timer. If you look at some of the oldschool harness builders, their ENGINE harness' start at over $2k. You still need to integrate it to the chasss. There's a reason for that. How these rywire guys and whoever the other one is doing them for $700, I have NO idea....

At some point for Bawbs car I'm going to need to call Joe and say, send me a 50' spool of every single color and color combo you have of your 18' tefzel wire. Then I can bill you for the wire being used, and you don't have to buy an entire spool. The Raychem I always have on hand so you get billed per foot, etc etc... it's the cheapest way to do it and not for nothing, and I'm sorry if I sound like a dick here, this is me helping you, seriously, I'm not being a dick I've just seen this too many times in the past TOO MANY TIMES ... if you've never done wiring like this in the past, wired a car up like this, or built a harness like this before, it's going to get fucked up. Something is not going to work. The extent of the fuck up will determine if it all gets ripped out or repaired. We had a 2.5hr long conversation about wiring over my little Bluetooth so I could keep working and there are a lot of concepts related to wiring that were all new to you. The first thing you said was, their are 88 pins, if I do one wire at a time, I should be ok. Well.... while there might be 88 pins lets just add this up
Injectors - 8
Ignition - 16
MAP - 3
EMAP - 3
TPS - 3
AIT - 2
Charge Temp - 2
ECT - 2
Lambda - 5
Trig - 3
EGT - 6
OP - 3
OT - 2
FP - 3
Boost Control - 2
Tach - 1
CAN - 2
Wheel - 10
Trim - 3
Thermo fan - 1
Fuel/ign trigger 1
Knock - 4
P&G - 2

That's 87 wires and I've used 2 out of the how many of the aux outputs? How many of those wires are shared? Do some of the temp inputs need resistors or is the logic built into the ECU. MoTeC's is, but the PS1/2000 isn't. I didn't know that when I wired up MC's FB and had I heatshrunk the whole harness, I would've been fucked. Glenn told me about that little tidbit which was NO WHERE in the halltech destructions

There's SOOOOO much to it.... I'm willing to help but I think it would be best if you just brought me the car after I'm done with Bawbs. Throw an empty keg in there with the mani's and the turbo and bam, you can pick the car up and build the engine @ your leisure and everything will be plug and play from there. I can even build the mani and DP for you at the same time. It'll cost you about the same in materials that you just don't need (you buy a 50' spool of wire and use 10' of it) and tools that will be used once or twice afterwards. Remember, I've got about $800 in tooling alone.

I've done this MANY times. If you still want to do it, I'll draw up a schematic based off of the LR datasheet and then you can attempt it. But if it doesn't work.... troubleshooting it will become an exercise in anger management.

Originally Posted by Fendamonky

And I've still got to factor in the EGT sensors/modules,

$100

Originally Posted by Fendamonky

the second MAP sensor,

$75

Originally Posted by Fendamonky

the boost control solenoid,

I'll give you an old Apexi one I have, but if you do dual WG's, you should have dual solenoids.... go look at my build thread, the IR ones are like $70ea

Originally Posted by Fendamonky

I'd *like* to have a Toucan display plugged in (somewhere in the ballpark of $800-$900 iirc) so I can monitor all the values I don't have gauges for and adjust settings on the fly).
Estimated total to make the brain-box work: $2,000

I don't like that display at all. I would do one of the new AIM's for like $1000 or whatever they are.

Originally Posted by Fendamonky

(Approximate) Grand total to get this bitch running where I want it: $4,600 (this is NOT taking into account tuning costs or labor for yours truly)

I'm currently sitting at $0 in the kitty for the car... I'll chip away at it little by little, but I'm thinking there is no way in hell I'll have this finished before October.

I think the problem is the LR.... had you kept the PFC that's like $6-7k that could've been diverted.

Originally Posted by Fendamonky

I'll have my CBR down there most likely, we can have Chris and Bawb pose on it for the car washing photo-op

[Fendamonky]

Originally Posted by TitaniumTT

It can be done on a bone stock block with different apex seals (although not necessary - XLR8) and a PFC.

THAT ain't gunna happen, lol. Keeping the PFC in there to have everything done for DGRR instead of holding off and doing the break-in once I had a better ECU probably has as much to do with the engine loss as does the loosened oil fitting (because a better computer would have caught the dropping oil pressure and taken appropriate actions).

Originally Posted by Brian

Ok.... here's what I would do If I were you..... take it as you will....

You're preaching to the choir here bro I'm already planning on bringing the car up your way and (hopefully) getting back up there to help/learn as much as I can. I thought I had alluded to that in my tone (referencing how much you'd want for labor and such) if not by blatantly agreeing that it would be the smarter choice over the phone

Originally Posted by Brian

Wait a few weeks until I get the IGN and D585 coils on the dyno, pick which one I say, and buy the coils, about $75/ea regardless of model.

Yeah, I saw you had mentioned that elsewhere... I'm open to suggestions

Originally Posted by Brian

Do not need

Agreed. Need = no. Want = hell yeah!!

Originally Posted by Brian

All of that, plus new Apex seals... give me the old ones

Ha! Not gunna happen

Originally Posted by Brian

Harness.... here's what's probably going to happen. relocate the battery? Get rid of that click click click start FD bullshit... all of that.

Yup, I already have a battery as well (I picked it up for Jacks 8, but the terminals were on the wrong side so I kept it for the FD relocation).

Originally Posted by Brian

I'm telling you, it's going to be cheaper and easier by MONTHS if you just bring me the car, and 30 hours of labor later, pick it up to drive away and break it in.

Already my plan, I just don't want to move on it until I have the money in my hand to pay for what will be done up front. I'm not trying to burn a friendship over some car work. That's one of the main reasons I said I'm gunna shelf the project for a while, so that I can cover all the costs up front.

Originally Posted by Brian

It's the cheapest way to do it and not for nothing, and I'm sorry if I sound like a dick here, this is me helping you, seriously, I'm not being a dick I've just seen this too many times in the past TOO MANY TIMES ... if you've never done wiring like this in the past, wired a car up like this, or built a harness like this before, it's going to get fucked up.

Agreed. I'm smart enough to know what's above my head, and I'm honest enough to admit it Wiring is PFM mixed with Faggotry and Voodoo for me right now, if I can make it up to help you on it and figure out how it works then maybe I'll try to start on smaller solo projects.

Originally Posted by Brian

I've done this MANY times. If you still want to do it, I'll draw up a schematic based off of the LR datasheet and then you can attempt it.

I'm down with you doing it, I think the additional cost in labor is outweighed by the unspent cost in specialized tools (that I'll use once) and the high probability of fuck ups due to newb. Still though, I'd love to get as educated by this task as possible in the process..

I don't like that display at all. I would do one of the new AIM's for like $1000 or whatever they are.

I'm thinking the Toucan or this guys: http://www.autosportinternational.co...libEntryID=341

I'm not current on the new AIMs, but from what I've seen they all sorta replace the cluster, not really looking for that.

Originally Posted by Brian

I think the problem is the LR.... had you kept the PFC that's like $6-7k that could've been diverted.

Worse comes to worse I could always just buy another PFC, but I'd rather avoid putting that thing back in my car at ALL possible costs..

[JL1RX7]

http://www.aireco.com/

If they carry it let me know. Give me the cash and I will pick it up all day long. I can always ask my electricians for help on getting any wire from supply places at cost.