JhnRX7's Weekend Track Toy Build

[RX SE7EN]

How does the Radium tank work, is there a pump in it, after it? or does it just fill up after the intake pumps and retain the pressure?

[JhnRX7]

Originally Posted by RX SE7EN

How does the Radium tank work, is there a pump in it, after it? or does it just fill up after the intake pumps and retain the pressure?

There is a pump (or two) in the surge tank. The Pump in the main fuel tank feeds the surge tank filling it with fuel. Then the pump(s) in the surge tank feed the fuel rails. Fuel from the rails returns to the surge tank ensuring the level inside the tank never drops. Excess fuel in the surge tank returns to the main fuel tank. This allows you to run your fuel level down to 1.5 liters (the volume of the surge tank) without any fuel starvation issues.


http://radiumauto.com/media/techarti...e-Tank-work-79

[RX SE7EN]

But what if the 2 (or 3) pumps in the surge tank outflow the in tank pump? I know it would take a while for it to deplete especially with the fuel return going to the surge tank.

But what about in a scenario like the texas mile, not saying I want to do it, but could this potentially starve if you are flat out for a long period of time?

[JhnRX7]

Originally Posted by RX SE7EN

But what if the 2 (or 3) pumps in the surge tank outflow the in tank pump? I know it would take a while for it to deplete especially with the fuel return going to the surge tank.

But what about in a scenario like the texas mile, not saying I want to do it, but could this potentially starve if you are flat out for a long period of time?

I believe once the surge tank is full, the return flow from the injectors going back to the surge tank combined with the tank pump pumping from the main tank is enough to keep the surge tank full so you do not need to match your in tank pump to your surge tank pump. If you had some extreme requirements (like the Texas mile) they sell larger surge tanks.

[TitaniumTT]

Originally Posted by JhnRX7

Yeah, I was running Hurley 3mm seals. The OMP system is stock. I did not start premixing until a few years ago. However I have always changed my oil religiously.

I wonder how much of that was because of insuffiecent OMP injection or the seals or the 3mm. I had to tear down my engine after about 15k because of a broken exhaust sleeve. I had been running the RA seals with the RA adapter for 2 stroke and about 1/3oz/gal in the tank. After about 15k miles I had chatter marks. When I put it back together I doubled the premix in the tank. and mixed 128:1 in the tank. After about another 15k miles I tore the engine down again and the chatter mark were gone. Now I just mix ~75:1 in the tank and call it good.

Originally Posted by JhnRX7

TBD

You know my rec

Originally Posted by JhnRX7

This is a valid concern. One I had not really considered... The flex fuel sensor also measures fuel temperature, I will have to monitor fuel temp to see how it is affected as the car warms up. Worst case, that is an easy line to re-do.

I wonder what the difference would be between the temp at the sensor and the temp in the rail? Do you have the ability to trim based on fuel temp and can you put another sensor in the fuel rail? More for curiosity than anything else.

Originally Posted by JhnRX7

This is part of the reason I did not finish off the rear of the car. I am seriously considering a radium surge tank or the setup Ambrosio has (just not welded in the tank). I want to mount it under the car to maintain a stock appearance.

Originally Posted by RXtacy

The Radium surge tank is a sexy piece.

I know.... so when are we going to finish up designing our variant and get one cut?

Originally Posted by RX SE7EN

How does the Radium tank work, is there a pump in it, after it? or does it just fill up after the intake pumps and retain the pressure?

Like John said, it works exactly like the surge tank I built into the fuel cell that I built.

Originally Posted by RX SE7EN

But what if the 2 (or 3) pumps in the surge tank outflow the in tank pump? I know it would take a while for it to deplete especially with the fuel return going to the surge tank.

But what about in a scenario like the texas mile, not saying I want to do it, but could this potentially starve if you are flat out for a long period of time?

An Aeromotive 340 is rated at 340lph @ 3B. When operating as a lift pump there is basically zero pressure and the flow will be ALOT more. On the order of 450-500lph I would assume. So unless you're running some MONSTER fuel system, the 340 as a lift pump should run just fine.

EDIT... after finding the flow chart and extrapolating the curve with my calculating eye, it looks like ~ 450/lph

[RX SE7EN]

Ok cool, didn't think about the pressurized vs. no pressure difference. I have the hyperion baffle installed, so if my car ever runs and it doesn't work all that well I may make the switch.

[RXtacy]

Originally Posted by TitaniumTT

I know.... so when are we going to finish up designing our variant and get one cut?

Because I showed you

Have you even looked at the model I sent you?

[TitaniumTT]

Originally Posted by RX SE7EN

Ok cool, didn't think about the pressurized vs. no pressure difference. I have the hyperion baffle installed, so if my car ever runs and it doesn't work all that well I may make the switch.

Kewl.... It's my strong belief and recommendation that every turbo rotary regardless of street or track needs some kind of surge tank. Be it the traditional type or something like the Radium

Originally Posted by RXtacy

Because I showed you

Have you even looked at the model I sent you?

Of course I have!

[JhnRX7]

Originally Posted by TitaniumTT

I wonder what the difference would be between the temp at the sensor and the temp in the rail? Do you have the ability to trim based on fuel temp and can you put another sensor in the fuel rail? More for curiosity than anything else.

I can, and will do this. I can also trim for fuel temp.

So drilling and tapping the secondary rail is easy enough, however the Flex Fuel sensor will already be in the return line so I will have that temp. I need to know the DeltaT so I will get one of those AN to AN adapters with 1/8th NPT in the middle. I'll install that at the engine before the primary rail. I have the extra 1/8th NPT sensor I was planning on using for the Diff already, I'll just borrow that.

looking forward to test this out... I like data.

[TitaniumTT]

Originally Posted by JhnRX7

I can, and will do this. I can also trim for fuel temp.

Very cool. I'm waiting on Aaron and Jayson @ FFE to come out with their new rails before I dive into redoing the fuel system and adding the fuel temp. I'm not going to get the DeltaT just the temp in the rails.

I would also like to add a pressure sender before the filter, pulling a log will let me know when it's starting to clog up.

Originally Posted by JhnRX7

So drilling and tapping the secondary rail is easy enough, however the Flex Fuel sensor will already be in the return line so I will have that temp. I need to know the DeltaT so I will get one of those AN to AN adapters with 1/8th NPT in the middle. I'll install that at the engine before the primary rail. I have the extra 1/8th NPT sensor I was planning on using for the Diff already, I'll just borrow that.

What temp sensors are you using that are 1/8" NPT? Most of the temp sensors that I'm seeing are 1/4 or 3/8" NPT?

Diff temp you say? Intrigued I am.... I may have to borrow this idea and put a sender in my tranny

Originally Posted by JhnRX7

looking forward to test this out... I like data.

Indeed... I'm putting a PS2000 in my vert... I have so many inputs that I need to move the to a CAN EGT setup and I might even look into the CAN I/O Expander

[JhnRX7]

Originally Posted by TitaniumTT

I would also like to add a pressure sender before the filter, pulling a log will let me know when it's starting to clog up.

Funny you mention that...

This is the fuel filter I am getting. I want a stainless element for E85, and dont want some BS 40 micron filter. This is one of the nicest filters (with the most filtration area) I can find with a 10 micron SS filter.

http://www.foreinnovations.com/product_p/16-900.htm

They give you the option to purchase mechanical pressure gauges for the inlet and outlet. I will be doing this. No need to use up inputs for something you can just check every once in a while (I'm aware there is the small possibility for it to clog quickly in rare instances, my fuel pressure protection will protect me from damage if this happens though).

Does your ECU have the capability to set a warning for pressure drop across two pressure inputs? I could setup a math channel to monitor it and have it displayed on a race dash such as the AIM MXL (I really want the new MXL2 or color dash BTW Have you seen these?) But for now checking mechanical gauges will be sufficient. Once I see a pressure drop I can pull the filter element and clean it.

Originally Posted by TitaniumTT

What temp sensors are you using that are 1/8" NPT? Most of the temp sensors that I'm seeing are 1/4 or 3/8" NPT?

I have a bunch of these AEM sensors.

http://www.aemelectronics.com/Images...%2030-2012.pdf

Originally Posted by TitaniumTT

Diff temp you say? Intrigued I am.... I may have to borrow this idea and put a sender in my tranny

When I re-worked my harness for the new ECU I included wiring for Trans and Diff temps. I got all the sensors, however I was waiting until I needed to change fluids to install them... never got around to it. Will over the winter though.

I REALLY want to get a baseline for both because I plan on adding a cooler (or 2) but don't want to just add a cooler for the sake of adding a cooler. Need to get the data first to justify it. I suspect it will definitely be necessary for the trans though.

[RENESISFD]

I know my trans and diff temps :-).

Unfortunately no track data yet just street cruising.

Max trans temp was 175 degrees F on a 800 mile drive in 62 degree F ambient day.

Diff was about 180 degrees F on the sme day.


Those hardlines look sexy.

[JhnRX7]

Originally Posted by RENESISFD

I know my trans and diff temps :-)

So how hot does the trans get on track?

[RENESISFD]

^ Ninja edit above


:'( very funny John

[JhnRX7]

Originally Posted by RENESISFD

^ Ninja edit above


:'( very funny John

Just motivation to get you back on track with us

Although this year you may be back on track before me.