Engine Wiring 101

[Kontakt]

Originally Posted by RICE RACING

For Autosport connecorts
AS series high density micro sized pins I can tell you that soldering them is fine and in some cases prefereable to crimpind with DCM crimpers (which I also have).

Soldering them correctly though is hard and technically its a monkey ability job to do it with the correct DCM mandrel/positioner, but can still be fucked up.

The soldering method needs a jig and angle plate, a fine tip, but the result is amazing and will pass an flexture test and tensile tests and the wire will fail well past anywhere to do with the solder joint! I know I have tested it!

The beauty of the soldering as the pins are very expensive is you can reuse them if need be! not that this is a big point if you can afford the item that these connect too LOL let alone the connectors ! but I prefer this method as the joint is PERFECTION and its sealed and it will not oxidize over time, and its a perfect joint, and it is reuable, and its smooth, and the pin is not work harndened, and its the best joint despite what is written in the Duetsch manual about not soldering them!

That is my expereince, I have done thousands of these joints and never had a problem!

Nothing wrong with soldering, but its operator skill, where as with crimpers any fuckwit can use them and do an accpetable job so long as they are calibrated and tested to conform to the correct level of crush for the gauge of wire you are inserting in the pin!

Soldering is a good option.

Bring on the hate mail!

I'm with you on soldering. Personally I will solder just about anything if I have the time, and am at my workstation. If I'm not or I don't, then I'm going to crimp.

I've also basically been soldering since my balls dropped, and fear almost no soldering task. 0402 (metric... 0402 standard is no big deal) is something I don't really look forward to, but that's really about it.

I don't have a $4,000 professional soldering station, but I'm not exactly using a radio shack pencil either. I use a temp controlled 5 wire with Hakko element on a box that also has a hot air rework gun and a decent adjustable bench power supply.

Some of the most important things that I can tell soldering noobs are as such:

1) Large or small, there is no job that the correct soldering tip is a pointy cone. Chisel, and angle cut cylindrical are my favorites. I also make a lot of my own tips to maximize contact area and heat transfer for specific shapes of components. The contact area for heat transfer, and the mass for heat capacity are the largest factors in tip selection.

2) Too much solder is a BAD thing in pretty much every way. It makes the joint bulky, hard to heat, and is likely just masking a cold joint. If you find yourself having to use a lot of solder to complete joints, then see item 3. You are likely needing to use so much solder to get enough flux to finally clean the contacts so that the solder can spread. Flux is what makes the solder wick through the wires. Also note that sometimes wicking is something you want to fight, especially in automotive use. You don't want it to wick up the wire creating a hard flex point where the wire will fail in time due to vibration.

3) CLEAN surfaces solder well. The tip as well as the prepped surfaces should both be clean. Flux as needed where appropriate. If the tip of your soldering iron only seems to melt solder at a very specific point, and the solder beads up on it like a waxed car in the rain, then you have work to do. Sometimes the only way to recover a tip like this is to file off the surface, and tin it *immediately*. Treat your tips with care.

4) Use small diameter multicore flux or rosin core solder. Only use large diameter solder for very large jobs.

5) If you're even going to CONSIDER soldering on your car, buy a Hakko FX-888 or similar, and practice for a very long time. Just do it. You will regret not getting a real soldering iron with temp control that actually heats up and reacts quickly.

Still, despite having just said all of that. I generally recommend you just crimp your harness. Unless you have some other need or desire to learn how to perform very high quality soldering, it'd be a waste of time. Crimping works great and is retard repeatable.

I may put together another set of tips specific to automotive soldering such as how to solder to specific pins, how to solder crimp connections, how to support and protect your work, etc.

[TitaniumTT]

Originally Posted by Kontakt

I keep rolls of 33+ and 88 around for different purposes. They're rarely used on wire though. 88 (heavy duty 8.5 mil) and 22 (extra heavy duty 10 mil) work a bit better for a lot of the things I actually use electrical tape for than 33+. It gets used like stretchy duct tape for things like keeping window a/c units from rattling so much. I can't say that I've ever wrapped a harness with them, though.

Originally Posted by Kontakt

I really think you'll be fairly well impressed at the price point. The crimpers by themselves with just the PP jaws and no case are only $40, but they're no lightweights.

We'll have to do some side-by-side testing vs the "official" tools.

I wanna see I wanna see!!!

Originally Posted by C. Ludwig

Thanks for saving me the time.

Cheers!

I've come across a few of your harnesses @ S1, nicely done.... the only problem I had was with JRP installed it and picked the wrong wire for the IGN hot... nightmare chasing that one...

Originally Posted by C. Ludwig

For wire, I use mil-spec M22759/16 for just about everything that's being made from scratch and not using a manufacturer's flying lead. It's commonly referred to as Tefzel. Raychem Spec 44 and Spec 55 would be the next step up. There are shielded and twisted pairs of all three available. Just depends on how anal you want to get with everything. Like everything, there is hobby level that performs well and won't require a 2nd mortgage and then there is LMP spec that is complete overkill for most anything this side of La Sarthe.

I yes... forgot the shielded wire... if it's not already in the flying loom, Pacific coast Avionics is where I buy all my 2-4 core shielded wire...

Originally Posted by C. Ludwig

www.prowireusa.com has a great selection of Tefzel, Deutsch DT* connectors, mil-spec and Deutsch Autosport connectors, shrink boots and transitions, DR25, etc. Prices are hard to beat as well. If you don't see it on the website or it says out of stock, give Joe a call and he'll hook you up.

I love Joe, he's awesome

Originally Posted by C. Ludwig

If you need any of the stock Mazda connectors, we keep a lot of those in stock.

Truff... you've hooked me up a few times when I've needed them...

Originally Posted by C. Ludwig

I don't even use electrical tape to bundle wires for a harness. Leaves too much residue and bulks up under the shrink. I use Kapton tape. Holds well and leaves no residue.

Here is a good write up on harness construction. http://www.rbracing-rsr.com/sq6wiringloom.html

I use it by taping the tape to itself so it doesn't transfer any adhesive... and I take it out of the harness before shrinking it....

Originally Posted by RICE RACING

Agree's fuck that! no need for anything more than some scotch locks, soldering iron and a Microwreck and some 5$ spark plugs and dildo coils of some V8 kuuunts from a forum univeristy site LOL using 16 ECU's in the wrong mode to control an air o plane jelly submarine car.

Australias #1 LOL Good enough for 8's good enough for Formula 1

Originally Posted by RICE RACING

(rbracing)So Bob is a friend of mine, he lists some cool stuff on his site and he has done more then any of the pretenders on the internest can dream about, inc racing at Le-Mans. We are both Pectel ECU runners

I agree with Ted though, some of the stuff seen there is just way over the top and nothing to do with this poor blokes thread.

Levi just wants to be baller

Originally Posted by RICE RACING

LOTS of good wiring can be done for a fraction of the price and no need to go to Raychem boots or DR heat shrink etc etc etc .......

There's no need for raychem boots, the same can be accomplised with some good 4:1 adhesive shrink and a pair of needle nose pliers.... but they look so damn nice....

Originally Posted by RICE RACING

And fuck me all jesting aside there is nothing wrong with soldering so long as you know how to fucking use one!

And I am not the best, hence I ALWAYS crimp... don't want to chance a cold joint....

Originally Posted by RICE RACING

I think people just get way carried away with this must be Autosport connectors, cryton dildo tape, mil spec tefzel wire, fucken DCM crimpers blah blah blah blah................ nice if you are rich but not everyone is, so no need to say this is what it is and the rest is shit.

There is stuff you can do for a 1/10th of the price and for the layman hobbiest its going to last you a fucking life time!

I love the connectors I put on the firewall... makes things much easier for me.... and they look pretty as well

Originally Posted by Rotary Evolution

from $3k+ and several month harness builds, to scotch locks, this thread covers it all.

The last time I clocked myself installing a halltech, it was 27 or 28 hours to wire EVERYTHING including the stock dash, turning the overheat exhaust into a check engine light etc etc etc.... several months?

Originally Posted by RICE RACING

For Autosport connecorts
AS series high density micro sized pins I can tell you that soldering them is fine and in some cases prefereable to crimpind with DCM crimpers (which I also have).

solder solder solder...


Nothing wrong with soldering, but its operator skill, where as with crimpers any fuckwit can use them and do an accpetable job so long as they are calibrated and tested to conform to the correct level of crush for the gauge of wire you are inserting in the pin!

MOTHERFUCKING THAT

Originally Posted by RICE RACING

Soldering is a good option.

Bring on the hate mail!

For the right person... I would rather crimp, quicker and less chance of a fuck up....

Originally Posted by RICE RACING

It is totally fine to do it to a wiring harness so long as the joint is then supported against vibration and stresses and strains, this is common sense, glue type heat shrink you will see used by lots of people to reinforce these sodlered joints.

Again, goes towards the level of the user....

Originally Posted by RICE RACING

FFS just look at how planes were wired in WW2 or how race cars won LeMans, they did all of this before XYZ "best practise" was pushed down your throat by layman 'experts' ................ its just pure common sense, problem is in the internet dildo phone youtube age its no longer common

I just hatre layman bdc fagwadwhore selfproclaimed non loosers....

Originally Posted by Kontakt

I'm with you on soldering. Personally I will solder just about anything if I have the time, and am at my workstation. If I'm not or I don't, then I'm going to crimp.

I still haven't redone the solder repair job on my 8... it's on the list but not a priority because I know it will hold just fine