what aftermarket apex seal would you choose?

[dvrx7]

Will the stock springs work with the RA or should you get their "racing" springs?

[dvrx7]

While I'm at it I should ask where i can get an N/A housing and rotor? I saw Goopy does refurbishing but probably not to the extent the housing and rotor are in. Any suggestions?

[GoopyPerformance]

Originally Posted by Rotary Evolution

there is no indestructable apex, side or corner seal. if they hold up then you will crack an iron, if you pin the engine the seals will warp or eat a side/corner seal. there is no way to build an engine to handle detonation more than in short bursts.

well said Ben..

Although parts and tuning has come a long way, when you improve in one area you will have to improve in the other..

Also keep in mind when building 2MM engines to always use authentic OEM Mazda FD 93-94 Apex seal springs, side seal springs and corner seal springs. They are able to withstand higher temps for longer periods of time.
All others that i have seen will loose deflection with one or two passes down the 1/4

[730RWHP12A]

well Rice, i have a set of RA seals that look like bananas.. they didnt even make it out of my buddy's shop.. they heat cycled the motor 8 times, put it on the dyno, after the first pull,done.. low compression .. half throttle pull, stock turbos, stock boost.. strange spoke with the owner at RA and he said they are designed to do that... He is very nice tho..

[RICE RACING]

Originally Posted by 730RWHP12A

well Rice, i have a set of RA seals that look like bananas.. they didnt even make it out of my buddy's shop.. they heat cycled the motor 8 times, put it on the dyno, after the first pull,done.. low compression .. half throttle pull, stock turbos, stock boost.. strange spoke with the owner at RA and he said they are designed to do that... He is very nice tho..

All Apex seals are fucking shit! this is why rotaries failed in life and are not made by anyone or run in anything of significance, its only a battler scene full of excuses and part truths........ honestly a shittier engine you will not find

No such problems with a cylinder and a piston and simple rings.

[730RWHP12A]

Rice there is hope.. beer injection, half will be injected into the engine, the other half will be injected into the driver, additionally premix will be placed in the butt-crack of driver, not sure how it will work but i will post results with pics asap

as far as apex seals go, piston rings, rods, it seems a good tuner is key in the life of any internal combustion engines life..

[RICE RACING]

Originally Posted by 730RWHP12A

Rice there is hope.. beer injection, half will be injected into the engine, the other half will be injected into the driver, additionally premix will be placed in the butt-crack of driver, not sure how it will work but i will post results with pics asap

as far as apex seals go, piston rings, rods, it seems a good tuner is key in the life of any internal combustion engines life..

No variables, the fact never changes that rotaries are shit.

You cant concur the world when your men are made of shit, and rotaries are that, you know why Mazda went NA 3 rotor then 4 rotor in Group C don't you??? its not because they did not know how to make apex seals out of fence posts LOL......

its cause as an engineering fact it wont work in the same condition a reciprocating engine will............ its as simple as that.

[RICE RACING]

Show me a turbo 13B that can wine Pikes Peak and I will be impressed with its Apex Seal *any manufacturer*

Till then its all shit in my books

[diabolical1]

Originally Posted by 730RWHP12A

what apex seal would you choose?

choices? below, and why you would choose them.. thanks

Atkins seals

ALS seals

RA super seals

Goopy seals

PTS seals

Hurley seals (not sure if Emmon is still selling them)

here are the specifics....

on a budget, poor tuner so there will be a possibility of lean conditions/ detonation during tune, cheap pre-mix, rotor housings are not the best, boosted application, race gas, 30 pounds of boost, drag racing, not daily driven, not trying to go 100,000 miles before rebuild

Goopy.

I have not tried them yet in any of my engines, but I've been able to talk rotaries with Jonathan and I have laid eyes on his work and the products that he sells. I have also seen some of his other customers (significant ones, not regular Joe-Schmoes like me) and it was enough to inspire enough confidence in him and his parts. I plan to build my next engine using his stuff.

[PSI]

I finally pulled down an engine running RA seals that had done some hard work. It was the temporary engine from our own car that was built with fairly average used parts (but new apex seals/springs). It must have done at least 50 passes down the 1/4mile (9.1 on pump petrol best E.T with this engine) plus 100 or more dyno pulls, some dirt drags and burnouts, and a bunch of street driving. I know it suffered some decent detonation too.

The apex seals themselves looked good and were all dead straight with fairly minimal wear. A couple were a little shorter on one end than the other, probably because the spring would would have been closer to the shallow end.

The housings themselves looked good considering the basic semi-synthetic 2 stroke we were running (and not enough of it). They have scratches as you would expect, but they are not as bad as I thought they would be and would sand out easily.

If we were running the polyol ester 2 stroke oil we run now, and at the amount we run now, then I'm sure the housings would look even better. All in all I'm happy with the RA's and see no reason to change at this point.

We run them in our current engine which makes 740rwhp on 93 pump with WI and the compression never seems to change. Even with this engine we've had some decent detonation getting to this point but somehow the seals take it in their stride. For whatever reason they don't break and don't bend. The current engine has done a season of low 9's and high 8's plus street driving, and it seems fine so we'll run it again next season without pulling it down. Hopefully we can crack the 800hp mark on pump petrol, but I'm not holding my breath.

[730RWHP12A]

Originally Posted by RICE RACING

Show me a turbo 13B that can wine Pikes Peak and I will be impressed with its Apex Seal *any manufacturer*

Till then its all shit in my books

Millen won pikes peak in his awd first gen turbo rx7 , i believe...

[RICE RACING]

Originally Posted by 730RWHP12A

Millen won pikes peak in his awd first gen turbo rx7 , i believe...

What he did do is move on to a much more powerful and reliable engine that was/is much faster with 300+bhp more ............ the 3SGTE.

He tried with a Peripheral Port 13B turbo made by Racing Beat which nearly send him broke, then he in a attempt to make it more reliable went 20B, in the year he was smashed by the 205T16 Peugeot.

Sad but true the rotary turbo is a piece of shit in a real race (not drug race).

[730RWHP12A]

http://www.speedhunters.com/2012/11/...s-group-b-rx7/


not the fastest car he has had, but the mazda is his favorite

[Whizbang]

how about NA PP applications? Since I am of the camp that things mixing rotaries and turbos is like mixing oil and water.

[RICE RACING]

Originally Posted by Whizbang

how about NA PP applications? Since I am of the camp that things mixing rotaries and turbos is like mixing oil and water.

I owned and daily drove one in the early 1990's for a length of 6 years as a daily driver. They are a fucking night mare, too sensitive to any exhaust system back pressure, too loud, too much fuel and POOR power in street trim.

As a racing engine they are weak in power, sad but true. On a level playing field (and even on when where they have weight breaks to the rotary favor and also no restrictors) they are still a very shit motor.

You can watch a 4 rotor NA PP being lapped like a back marker in this race, "too much fuel use" & "low in power" says it all.



That is why rotaries are not made any more.