N/A to TII rear end swap

My5ABaby · 01-13-2013, 08:56 PM

I have a turboed 6 port and I'm looking at swapping in the more reliable TII diff/half-shafts. I've found some conflicting information on this.

I get the diff/half-shafts/driveshaft/tranny matching scenario. However, does the subframe (carrier?) have to match the diff/half-shafts? In other words, if I bought a TII diff/HSs, I could keep my existing N/A subframe and it would all go together like Legos?

I'd love for this to be yes as that will save a ton of hassle with shipping or what not.

JustJeff · 01-13-2013, 10:24 PM

I believe the answer is that you can use any subframe. Many years ago I had a shop in Indy do my JDM TII swap. With that swap, I had them put a S4 TII diff and half-shafts in. More recently I swapped the same drivetrain into a different n/a convertible. At that time I swapped subframes and differentials as complete units.

***TitaniumTT*** · 01-14-2013, 04:55 PM

The subframes and rear hubs are all the same, swap shafts and go.

If I may add a suggestion, ditch the S4 clutch pack diff in lieu of an S5 or better yet, a Torsen....

My5ABaby · 01-14-2013, 05:18 PM

I'm probably going to go with whatever TII diff/shafts I can get a hold of... Stupid overpriced diffs. People want too much money for a used 25 year old differential.

RETed · 01-14-2013, 05:56 PM

I wouldn't run that viscous LSD either...
The viscous LSD basically mimics and open diff at very low deltas.

http://fc3spro.com/TECH/MODS/DT/lsd.htm

The stock clutch-type LSD's are all basically worn out by now.
Most of them operate like an open diff due to the high mileage.
I believe the clutch discs are all "NLA" from Mazda?

-Ted

My5ABaby · 01-14-2013, 06:26 PM

What would be a good recommendation for road racing/auto cross? I think what I'm seeing from you guys is the clutch is better but worn out, and the viscous is not worn out but sucks.

P.S. I can't get your site to work Ted.

***TitaniumTT*** · 01-14-2013, 06:41 PM

My choice from least favorite to favorite is as follows.... S4, S5, Torsen.... Most FD guys will trade thier torsen plus cash for your S4 TII clutch type diff. You don't want a clutch pack for auto-x, Torsen is the way to go IMNSHO

My5ABaby · 01-14-2013, 06:47 PM

So I can put the FD torsen into the FC housing?

***TitaniumTT*** · 01-14-2013, 07:33 PM

You can put the FD Torsen into the TII housing. You need S4 stub shafts though and Turbo shafts.

My5ABaby · 01-14-2013, 08:09 PM

Good to know. Anyone know if I need the early 87 or mid 87-88 stub shafts to do the FD swap? Apparently Mazda decided to change things... :-/ http://www.mazdatrix.com/G8DiffMnt.HTM

RETed · 01-15-2013, 03:02 AM

Sorry, just keep trying...
My ISP has only a 90% uptime rate. :P

For the beginners...
It's advantageous to go with a Torsen cause it's predictable.
The other advantage is that there is nothing to wear, so it's maintenance-free.
Downside for a Torsen is that it's relatively delicate - due to it's design and all the little spider gears.
The FD Torsen LSD is good to about 300hp or so - above 400hp is pushing it.
This is also very dependent on your driving style.
You could run 500hp through a Torsen if you're very delicate with your throttle control.
I'm talking worst case which is drag-style launches.

Clutch-pack LSD's can be a handful, because beginners will have hard time with the on / off engagement; this is where the Torsen is superior.
The clutch LSD is stronger by design.
This is why your drag "posi's" and aftermarket LSD's are almost always clutch-type.
For advance drivers, you can use the on / off point of the LSD engagement to your advantage.
Also, the clutch packs can be tuned to change on / off engagement points and also the rate of engagement...
Last, but not least, one big disadvantage is that the clutch discs will wear.

Viscous LSD's only advantage is that they are basically maintenance-free.

Yes, the FD stock Torsen LSD will swap into any FC turbo rear diff with the right stub shafts.
This is basically what the Infini VI FC3S in Japan was running...

-Ted

My5ABaby · 01-15-2013, 10:28 AM

Good info, thanks Ted. It looks like I'll try to get my hands on a low mileage clutch, or just swap a torsen in. My goal is under 400 eventually, really only around 250 for now. I also don't have any plans to drag race or launch with it, not really my thing.

***TitaniumTT*** · 01-15-2013, 11:09 AM

I've been pushing 400 for quite some time now with the same Torsen with repeated HARD launchs.

That being said, I did just cryo treat a torsen just yesterday because I suspect in the coming year to be breaking a lot more drivetrain parts

My5ABaby · 01-15-2013, 11:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TitaniumTT

I've been pushing 400 for quite some time now with the same Torsen with repeated HARD launchs.

That being said, I did just cryo treat a torsen just yesterday because I suspect in the coming year to be breaking a lot more drivetrain parts

Good to know. Which half-shafts are you using? They had the vin split with early and late S4s.

My5ABaby · 01-21-2013, 04:40 PM

Also, has anyone used an RX-8 diff in the S4 TII diff?

01-13-2013, 08:56 PM	#1
My5ABaby Sigh..... Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Murfreesboro, TN iTrader: (6) Posts: 2,377 Rep Power: 19	N/A to TII rear end swap I have a turboed 6 port and I'm looking at swapping in the more reliable TII diff/half-shafts. I've found some conflicting information on this. I get the diff/half-shafts/driveshaft/tranny matching scenario. However, does the subframe (carrier?) have to match the diff/half-shafts? In other words, if I bought a TII diff/HSs, I could keep my existing N/A subframe and it would all go together like Legos? I'd love for this to be yes as that will save a ton of hassle with shipping or what not. __________________ 1986 Sport: 132k miles, 5A (Sapphire Blue Metallic), Tokico Blues, Racing Beat Springs, Custom LED tailights (only S4 LED tails in the world), SSR Mark II, Racing Beat exhaust, S5 black interior, Rotary Resurrection rebuild at 120k miles Community Service Manual RotorWiki "Imagination costs nothing; we could build square locomotives or fly to Mars" - Felix Wankel Yesterday is history, tomorrow is a mystery, but today is a gift. That is why it is called the "present."

01-14-2013, 04:55 PM	#3
*TitaniumTT* Test Whore - Admin Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Right Behind you son iTrader: (4) Posts: 4,581 Rep Power: 10	The subframes and rear hubs are all the same, swap shafts and go. If I may add a suggestion, ditch the S4 clutch pack diff in lieu of an S5 or better yet, a Torsen.... __________________ -The Angry Stig- DGRR 2009, 2011, 2012 & 2013 - Best FC DEALS GAP!! WOOHOOOO!!!!! 2015 Audi S4 - Samantha - Zero Brap S4 2004 RX8 - Jocelyn - 196rwhp, 19mpg fuel to noise converter 2000 Jeep Cherokee Sport - Wifey mobile - Now with 2.5" OME lift and 30" BFG AT KO's! So it begins 1998 Jeep Cherokee - 5 spd, 4" lift, 33" BFG's - Rotary Tow Vehicle 1988 'Vert - In progress 1988 FC Coupe - Gretchen -The attention whore BEAST! I'm a sick individual, what's wrong with you? I'm pure Evil I'm still insane, in the best possible way. I think Brian's idea of romance is using lube. Your rage caused the meteor strike in Russia. The Antichrist would be proud of his minion. You win with your thread. Most everything It's a truck with a steel gate on the back. Just a statement of fact Motec M820, AIM dash, ported 13B-RE Cosmo, 6-spd trans, 4.3 Torsen, custom twin wg fully divided mani, Custom 4" split into 2x 3" exhaust, Custom HMIC, Custom custom custom custom I like to welder stuff.... No Bolt-ons allowed. Dyno'ed @ Speed1 Tuned by me - 405rwhp on WG.... WM50 cuming soon. *-Angry Motherfcker Mode ENGAGED-**

01-14-2013, 05:18 PM	#4
My5ABaby Sigh..... Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Murfreesboro, TN iTrader: (6) Posts: 2,377 Rep Power: 19	I'm probably going to go with whatever TII diff/shafts I can get a hold of... Stupid overpriced diffs. People want too much money for a used 25 year old differential. __________________ 1986 Sport: 132k miles, 5A (Sapphire Blue Metallic), Tokico Blues, Racing Beat Springs, Custom LED tailights (only S4 LED tails in the world), SSR Mark II, Racing Beat exhaust, S5 black interior, Rotary Resurrection rebuild at 120k miles Community Service Manual RotorWiki "Imagination costs nothing; we could build square locomotives or fly to Mars" - Felix Wankel Yesterday is history, tomorrow is a mystery, but today is a gift. That is why it is called the "present."

01-14-2013, 06:26 PM	#6
My5ABaby Sigh..... Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Murfreesboro, TN iTrader: (6) Posts: 2,377 Rep Power: 19	What would be a good recommendation for road racing/auto cross? I think what I'm seeing from you guys is the clutch is better but worn out, and the viscous is not worn out but sucks. P.S. I can't get your site to work Ted. __________________ 1986 Sport: 132k miles, 5A (Sapphire Blue Metallic), Tokico Blues, Racing Beat Springs, Custom LED tailights (only S4 LED tails in the world), SSR Mark II, Racing Beat exhaust, S5 black interior, Rotary Resurrection rebuild at 120k miles Community Service Manual RotorWiki "Imagination costs nothing; we could build square locomotives or fly to Mars" - Felix Wankel Yesterday is history, tomorrow is a mystery, but today is a gift. That is why it is called the "present."

01-14-2013, 06:41 PM	#7
*TitaniumTT* Test Whore - Admin Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Right Behind you son iTrader: (4) Posts: 4,581 Rep Power: 10	My choice from least favorite to favorite is as follows.... S4, S5, Torsen.... Most FD guys will trade thier torsen plus cash for your S4 TII clutch type diff. You don't want a clutch pack for auto-x, Torsen is the way to go IMNSHO __________________ -The Angry Stig- DGRR 2009, 2011, 2012 & 2013 - Best FC DEALS GAP!! WOOHOOOO!!!!! 2015 Audi S4 - Samantha - Zero Brap S4 2004 RX8 - Jocelyn - 196rwhp, 19mpg fuel to noise converter 2000 Jeep Cherokee Sport - Wifey mobile - Now with 2.5" OME lift and 30" BFG AT KO's! So it begins 1998 Jeep Cherokee - 5 spd, 4" lift, 33" BFG's - Rotary Tow Vehicle 1988 'Vert - In progress 1988 FC Coupe - Gretchen -The attention whore BEAST! I'm a sick individual, what's wrong with you? I'm pure Evil I'm still insane, in the best possible way. I think Brian's idea of romance is using lube. Your rage caused the meteor strike in Russia. The Antichrist would be proud of his minion. You win with your thread. Most everything It's a truck with a steel gate on the back. Just a statement of fact Motec M820, AIM dash, ported 13B-RE Cosmo, 6-spd trans, 4.3 Torsen, custom twin wg fully divided mani, Custom 4" split into 2x 3" exhaust, Custom HMIC, Custom custom custom custom I like to welder stuff.... No Bolt-ons allowed. Dyno'ed @ Speed1 Tuned by me - 405rwhp on WG.... WM50 cuming soon. *-Angry Motherfcker Mode ENGAGED-**

01-14-2013, 06:47 PM	#8
My5ABaby Sigh..... Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Murfreesboro, TN iTrader: (6) Posts: 2,377 Rep Power: 19	So I can put the FD torsen into the FC housing? __________________ 1986 Sport: 132k miles, 5A (Sapphire Blue Metallic), Tokico Blues, Racing Beat Springs, Custom LED tailights (only S4 LED tails in the world), SSR Mark II, Racing Beat exhaust, S5 black interior, Rotary Resurrection rebuild at 120k miles Community Service Manual RotorWiki "Imagination costs nothing; we could build square locomotives or fly to Mars" - Felix Wankel Yesterday is history, tomorrow is a mystery, but today is a gift. That is why it is called the "present."

01-14-2013, 07:33 PM	#9
*TitaniumTT* Test Whore - Admin Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Right Behind you son iTrader: (4) Posts: 4,581 Rep Power: 10	You can put the FD Torsen into the TII housing. You need S4 stub shafts though and Turbo shafts. __________________ -The Angry Stig- DGRR 2009, 2011, 2012 & 2013 - Best FC DEALS GAP!! WOOHOOOO!!!!! 2015 Audi S4 - Samantha - Zero Brap S4 2004 RX8 - Jocelyn - 196rwhp, 19mpg fuel to noise converter 2000 Jeep Cherokee Sport - Wifey mobile - Now with 2.5" OME lift and 30" BFG AT KO's! So it begins 1998 Jeep Cherokee - 5 spd, 4" lift, 33" BFG's - Rotary Tow Vehicle 1988 'Vert - In progress 1988 FC Coupe - Gretchen -The attention whore BEAST! I'm a sick individual, what's wrong with you? I'm pure Evil I'm still insane, in the best possible way. I think Brian's idea of romance is using lube. Your rage caused the meteor strike in Russia. The Antichrist would be proud of his minion. You win with your thread. Most everything It's a truck with a steel gate on the back. Just a statement of fact Motec M820, AIM dash, ported 13B-RE Cosmo, 6-spd trans, 4.3 Torsen, custom twin wg fully divided mani, Custom 4" split into 2x 3" exhaust, Custom HMIC, Custom custom custom custom I like to welder stuff.... No Bolt-ons allowed. Dyno'ed @ Speed1 Tuned by me - 405rwhp on WG.... WM50 cuming soon. *-Angry Motherfcker Mode ENGAGED-**

01-14-2013, 08:09 PM	#10
My5ABaby Sigh..... Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Murfreesboro, TN iTrader: (6) Posts: 2,377 Rep Power: 19	Good to know. Anyone know if I need the early 87 or mid 87-88 stub shafts to do the FD swap? Apparently Mazda decided to change things... :-/ http://www.mazdatrix.com/G8DiffMnt.HTM __________________ 1986 Sport: 132k miles, 5A (Sapphire Blue Metallic), Tokico Blues, Racing Beat Springs, Custom LED tailights (only S4 LED tails in the world), SSR Mark II, Racing Beat exhaust, S5 black interior, Rotary Resurrection rebuild at 120k miles Community Service Manual RotorWiki "Imagination costs nothing; we could build square locomotives or fly to Mars" - Felix Wankel Yesterday is history, tomorrow is a mystery, but today is a gift. That is why it is called the "present."

01-15-2013, 10:28 AM	#12
My5ABaby Sigh..... Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Murfreesboro, TN iTrader: (6) Posts: 2,377 Rep Power: 19	Good info, thanks Ted. It looks like I'll try to get my hands on a low mileage clutch, or just swap a torsen in. My goal is under 400 eventually, really only around 250 for now. I also don't have any plans to drag race or launch with it, not really my thing. __________________ 1986 Sport: 132k miles, 5A (Sapphire Blue Metallic), Tokico Blues, Racing Beat Springs, Custom LED tailights (only S4 LED tails in the world), SSR Mark II, Racing Beat exhaust, S5 black interior, Rotary Resurrection rebuild at 120k miles Community Service Manual RotorWiki "Imagination costs nothing; we could build square locomotives or fly to Mars" - Felix Wankel Yesterday is history, tomorrow is a mystery, but today is a gift. That is why it is called the "present."

01-15-2013, 11:09 AM	#13
*TitaniumTT* Test Whore - Admin Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Right Behind you son iTrader: (4) Posts: 4,581 Rep Power: 10	I've been pushing 400 for quite some time now with the same Torsen with repeated HARD launchs. That being said, I did just cryo treat a torsen just yesterday because I suspect in the coming year to be breaking a lot more drivetrain parts __________________ -The Angry Stig- DGRR 2009, 2011, 2012 & 2013 - Best FC DEALS GAP!! WOOHOOOO!!!!! 2015 Audi S4 - Samantha - Zero Brap S4 2004 RX8 - Jocelyn - 196rwhp, 19mpg fuel to noise converter 2000 Jeep Cherokee Sport - Wifey mobile - Now with 2.5" OME lift and 30" BFG AT KO's! So it begins 1998 Jeep Cherokee - 5 spd, 4" lift, 33" BFG's - Rotary Tow Vehicle 1988 'Vert - In progress 1988 FC Coupe - Gretchen -The attention whore BEAST! I'm a sick individual, what's wrong with you? I'm pure Evil I'm still insane, in the best possible way. I think Brian's idea of romance is using lube. Your rage caused the meteor strike in Russia. The Antichrist would be proud of his minion. You win with your thread. Most everything It's a truck with a steel gate on the back. Just a statement of fact Motec M820, AIM dash, ported 13B-RE Cosmo, 6-spd trans, 4.3 Torsen, custom twin wg fully divided mani, Custom 4" split into 2x 3" exhaust, Custom HMIC, Custom custom custom custom I like to welder stuff.... No Bolt-ons allowed. Dyno'ed @ Speed1 Tuned by me - 405rwhp on WG.... WM50 cuming soon. *-Angry Motherfcker Mode ENGAGED-**

01-21-2013, 04:40 PM	#15
My5ABaby Sigh..... Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Murfreesboro, TN iTrader: (6) Posts: 2,377 Rep Power: 19	Also, has anyone used an RX-8 diff in the S4 TII diff? __________________ 1986 Sport: 132k miles, 5A (Sapphire Blue Metallic), Tokico Blues, Racing Beat Springs, Custom LED tailights (only S4 LED tails in the world), SSR Mark II, Racing Beat exhaust, S5 black interior, Rotary Resurrection rebuild at 120k miles Community Service Manual RotorWiki "Imagination costs nothing; we could build square locomotives or fly to Mars" - Felix Wankel Yesterday is history, tomorrow is a mystery, but today is a gift. That is why it is called the "present."