Dyno?

[RETed]

Originally Posted by Grizzly

I just watched the Video a cupple of times and at around 4500 the afr drops from upper 10's to aprox 10.2 afr is that what should be tuned out so it stays solid at for example 10.7 whilst your hitting peak boost? or wouldn't that make much of a diffrence?

It was either going to be too much fuel or not enough fuel...
Either or would cause that dip.
Going with the AFR's you mentioned, it sure sounds like too much fuel...

I wouldn't get critical of the AFR's (and also total ignition advance) until you start to get close to maximum torque.
Looking at your graph, it looks to be right under 6k RPM (if that dip wasn't there).
Running in the 10's that far away from peak torque is just way too much fuel, especially when it's on the lower RPM side of the peak.

With the car on the dyno, that's all you really need in terms of "tools."
(I can argue EGT gauge at this point, but most of you are already tired of that. )
Just adjust fuel as long as power keeps going up - simple.
People get too caught up with AFR's, etc. to understand the dynamics of tuning.


-Ted

[TitaniumTT]

Originally Posted by Grizzly

The car was set up to 1.1bar of Boost and it does run 50/50 Meth Water mix but through a 0.6mm Jet by the Throttles and comes on at 0.7 bar, the only thing i can say is the Meth/Water mix is sending it rich maybe? Could it have been set like this to keep it on the rich side so airing on the side of Caution?

That much meth is going to skew the AFR's, either way though..... low 10's on only pump is too rich

Originally Posted by RETed

It was either going to be too much fuel or not enough fuel...
Either or would cause that dip.
Going with the AFR's you mentioned, it sure sounds like too much fuel...

I wouldn't get critical of the AFR's (and also total ignition advance) until you start to get close to maximum torque.
Looking at your graph, it looks to be right under 6k RPM (if that dip wasn't there).
Running in the 10's that far away from peak torque is just way too much fuel, especially when it's on the lower RPM side of the peak.

With the car on the dyno, that's all you really need in terms of "tools."
(I can argue EGT gauge at this point, but most of you are already tired of that. )

I'm not.... seriously... too many people don't monitor EGT's or have a single probe in the DP.... worthless...

Originally Posted by RETed

Just adjust fuel as long as power keeps going up - simple.
People get too caught up with AFR's, etc. to understand the dynamics of tuning.


-Ted

That.....

[Grizzly]

Originally Posted by TitaniumTT

That much meth is going to skew the AFR's, either way though..... low 10's on only pump is too rich

Would you say the meth is needed at my level (450hp at just under 1.1bar) i did do allot of thinking about it at the time and it was deamed the way to go just to keep the lines / Jets clean and it won't freeze in winter but now a bit on i'm thinking i've lost out of some extra Water Cooling effect and caused a tuning issue (its set up rich and if its tweaked back to 11's for argument sake and the Pump stops and then would that send me very lean on Boost)

I have one more question, are datalogits and Wideband kits a good thing to have or is it a case of Not clever in the wrong hands. TBh i proberly wouldn't like to touch the map myself buy i don't like the idea its been set up by some one who hasn't tuned out some thing that Ovious and i'd like to see what the rest of the maps doing.

[RETed]

Originally Posted by Grizzly

Would you say the meth is needed at my level (450hp at just under 1.1bar) i did do allot of thinking about it at the time and it was deamed the way to go just to keep the lines / Jets clean and it won't freeze in winter but now a bit on i'm thinking i've lost out of some extra Water Cooling effect and caused a tuning issue (its set up rich and if its tweaked back to 11's for argument sake and the Pump stops and then would that send me very lean on Boost)

We run 92 octane (R+M/2) over here, and 1.1bar of boost would be in the edge of our pump gas.
We can run that kinda boost, but I'll drop the total ignition advance a little just to keep it on the safe side.
I'll take the several percentage points drop in power just to keep the engine safe on the street with the deviation in gasoline (octane) quality.

RICE RACING is da man to talk to when talking about that supplemental injection stuff.
In fact, there's a good thread in another section somewhere where there's a lot of good numbers for this kinda stuff.
I personally don't touch this stuff, so I'm not qualified to answer such questions.

Just looking at your graph though...
You're losing around 20 lb-ft (or more) in that "dip" section.
That's a pretty significant amount of power, especially in the middle of your power band.
It would be nice to fix it and gain back that lost power.

I have one more question, are datalogits and Wideband kits a good thing to have or is it a case of Not clever in the wrong hands. TBh i proberly wouldn't like to touch the map myself buy i don't like the idea its been set up by some one who hasn't tuned out some thing that Ovious and i'd like to see what the rest of the maps doing.

I'm not a P-FC / Datalogit tuner, but the Datalogit does offer additional features that the P-FC Commander doesn't.
It looks like it unlocks a bunch of auxiliary maps and allows (more) datalogging.
Datalogging can be of great help for tuners, or if you do a lot of adjustments (driving by) yourself.

It still comes down to the capabilities of the tuner...
You can give the best tools to a crappy tuner, but it still won't help if they don't know how to utilize those tools.
A good tuner can get by with barebones monitoring (i.e. gauges) and tools, and still be more effective than the crappy tuner.


-Ted

[RICE RACING]

Originally Posted by RETed

We run 92 octane (R+M/2) over here, and 1.1bar of boost would be in the edge of our pump gas.
We can run that kinda boost, but I'll drop the total ignition advance a little just to keep it on the safe side.
I'll take the several percentage points drop in power just to keep the engine safe on the street with the deviation in gasoline (octane) quality.

RICE RACING is da man to talk to when talking about that supplemental injection stuff.
In fact, there's a good thread in another section somewhere where there's a lot of good numbers for this kinda stuff.
I personally don't touch this stuff, so I'm not qualified to answer such questions.

Just looking at your graph though...
You're losing around 20 lb-ft (or more) in that "dip" section.
That's a pretty significant amount of power, especially in the middle of your power band.
It would be nice to fix it and gain back that lost power.




I'm not a P-FC / Datalogit tuner, but the Datalogit does offer additional features that the P-FC Commander doesn't.
It looks like it unlocks a bunch of auxiliary maps and allows (more) datalogging.
Datalogging can be of great help for tuners, or if you do a lot of adjustments (driving by) yourself.

It still comes down to the capabilities of the tuner...
You can give the best tools to a crappy tuner, but it still won't help if they don't know how to utilize those tools.
A good tuner can get by with barebones monitoring (i.e. gauges) and tools, and still be more effective than the crappy tuner.


-Ted

We had a classic fuckwit here named John Blanch formerly from RX Engineering.....

Now this is FUNNY! (well not for the owner!)

I supplied my water injection system back in 2004 to a customer named Dale Helier and he was thsi shops customer, running one of his engines. I speced the system and so on, they cheaped out and ran some BS inductive boosters for ignition set up rather than the proper CDI I specify ......... anyway!

They were mapping the engine a few days prior to Summernats National Dyno competition. they noticed EXACTLY the same dip this poster has seen. Upon the wise advise LOL from John Blanch he said it will make heaps more power without the Water Injection system so lets turn it off to get rid of the dip in mid range power........ well the engine DETONATED the first run!!! and totally fucked it self on the dyno LOL.

The customer pulled out the motor and sent it to RX Engineering and they did a dodgy patch up job on it and over the phone told my customer Dale " I hate that Rice Racing ****, but his water injection system works, this time do not turn it off!" despite him being the one who suggest it LOL!!!

My customer went to summernats and ran the car (I still have the video somewhere on tape I need to convert it) ....... it was the highest ever true pump petrol 13B to run at that controlled event and was only ever beaten by another car I engineered and developed 3 years later, still to this day never beaten let alone equaled.

Now the moral here is John Blanch and his company (closed now!) RX Engienering claimed themselves to be experts in EVERYTHING and the best LOL just liek the false advertising of Microwreck computers (Australias #1 LOL) but just like what happened in REALITY these homeless high school drop out mechanics are nothing more than plebs with LITTLE knowledge let alone engineering skill to be using that name in a shop title LOL.

Be very careful who you take advise from, make sure that they themselves have a car that runs and does what they say it can and that it and their theories HAVE BEEN PROVEN, just like the plethora of decades of examples I can achieve myself lots of these cunts be they shop owners or self professed gods cant meet any basic tests and are nothing short of hypocrites as they themselves do not back up their mouth with a hard example of their own product that has come out of their own money their own pocket, they just use poor customers as experiments and consumable items to test shit they themselves are too scared or too broke to do.

Shame on these worthless cunts.

[Grizzly]

Originally Posted by TitaniumTT

I'm not.... seriously... too many people don't monitor EGT's or have a single probe in the DP.... worthless....

MMMM That would Include me, I will look into getting some sort of EGT sensor fitted as this is also something that i have not come across and it interests me what my EGT is (i imagine running rich it should be quite low??) Just some thing else to add to the "To Do" list