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[Signal 2]

AI [Water (distilled) or water/methanol injection] won't do anything for fuel economy. It's primary purpose is to remove heat from the intake charge and, ultimately, from the engine. Heat is stress. Turbos create alot of heat. Heat is reduced by AI. It also functions to reduce knock and control carbon build-up over time. So it is beneficial even on a near-stock car and stock boost levels. This is the case with my car and I have AI (water only).
You can google terms like Auxillary Injection and probably get alot better explanation than I can give you here.

For a high-flow cat, I recommend BONEZ. All stainless, quality contruction, it accomodates the airpump if you still have it and it flows very well. I've had one on my car for over 9 yrs with no issues.

[Fendamonky]

Originally Posted by Signal 2

AI [Water (distilled) or water/methanol injection] won't do anything for fuel economy. It's primary purpose is to remove heat from the intake charge and, ultimately, from the engine. Heat is stress. Turbos create alot of heat. Heat is reduced by AI. It also functions to reduce knock and control carbon build-up over time. So it is beneficial even on a near-stock car and stock boost levels. This is the case with my car and I have AI (water only).
You can google terms like Auxillary Injection and probably get alot better explanation than I can give you here.

Water/methanol injection serves four purposes, three intentionally and one is a side effect.

The methanol atomizes almost instantly when it enters your intake piping. The process of atomizing leeches heat from the surrounding air, effectively cooling the intake charge. In addition to providing cooling to the air, the methanol adds a little bit of bang for your buck inside the combustion chamber, helping to partially mitigate the non-combustability of water.

Water does not atomize as easily as methanol, as a result you still have the mist of water entering into your combustion chamber. This mist flashes when the actual combustion takes place, it helps to absorb heat from that combustion cycle. The water won't do anything for latent heat during the combustion cycle it's present in, though it WILL help to dramatically reduce the possibility of predetonation. The cooling properties of the water come into play for the following combustion cycle, as it helps remove latent heat from the chamber as it leaves (colder starting temp = colder ending temp).

On the side water and methanol will help keep your engine spotless when it comes to carbon buildup.

We just cracked my engine open this past Friday because I had a problem with a side seal taking a shit. The rotor face and housings were SPOTLESS! There was literally zero carbon buildup on the rotors, around the apex seals, or in the grooves for the apex seals. I was shocked as I expected there to be at least a little something there.

Cooling and power aside... the ability to combat predetonation and cleaning properties should be MORE than enough reason to spring the $400-$500 a decent A/I kit will run you. I'm personally a fan of the Aquamist kits, I picked up their (now discontinued) basic pressure activated kit while I was in England and recently moved on to their HFS-3 kit with rx-7 Summer Unit (damned A/I is smarter than I am, I'm positive!!) and am loving it!

[Signal 2]

^We're getting a bit off-topic, but if that was meant to convince me, your too late. I'm already running AI.
Mine is (currently) water only and a very simple (inexpensive and reliable) boost-activated system.
Since I don't run methanol, I don't count on much of a drop in IAT. In fact my IAT sensor is located pre-nozzle, and obviously I don't tune with it.
Thus, my AI only controls 3 things...knock, carbon and heat. The reduced heat is mostly seen in the lack in of temp spikes I previously saw after periods of hard boost. It's those kind of heat spikes that IMO tend produce alot of stress to things like coolant seals.

Good to hear about the clean rotors and seal grooves. My car's put up for the winter but my winter 'list' includes changing out plugs. Unlike before, there's been really no indication they're in need of changing...even though they've been in there about 50% longer. I've had no hard(er) starting, no break up, no slightly lumpy idle. Curious to see what they look like.

[yzf-r1]

Originally Posted by Signal 2

The reduced heat is mostly seen in the lack in of temp spikes I previously saw after periods of hard boost. It's those kind of heat spikes that IMO tend produce alot of stress to things like coolant seals.

This is a great point, and probably the best argument of all for water injection

Oh - and use Iridium plugs, they are the ONLY plugs that last 10k+ in these motors

[Fendamonky]

Originally Posted by yzf-r1

This is a great point, and probably the best argument of all for water injection

Depending on whether he's talking about water temp's spiking or air temps spiking I can def support it.

The cooling that water provides to the rotor housing will def take significant stress off the other parts of your cooling system, that's a very good thing Your water temps will also really benefit from having good oil cooling (dual) that are properly ducted. Also make sure that (both) your radiator fans are working properly!!


As for Air Temps, once the water/meth starts spraying you can def expect to see your temps plummet. With my VMIC setup I'll normall see intake air temps of about 8-10 degrees (Celsius) above ambient air while cruising around. Once the A/I starts spraying (and you're getting on it!) that temp will drop even closer to the ambient temperature. Each pulse in normal driving will normally drop the temperature a degree or two until it's down to 2-3 degrees above ambient.

Colder air = denser air. Denser air = more oxygen. More oxygen = more power.

[yzf-r1]

Originally Posted by Fendamonky

We just cracked my engine open this past Friday because I had a problem with a side seal taking a shit. The rotor face and housings were SPOTLESS!

After how much time? My rotors looked great after 20k using Amsoil Interceptor 2 stroke pre-mix oil (and driving the car hard helps as well). With that said, the water/alcohol makes alot of sense and I'll put it on someday, I just don't really feel a need to turn the boost up because I get enough tickets already and beat essentially 99% of the cars on the road as it is

[Fendamonky]

Originally Posted by yzf-r1

After how much time? My rotors looked great after 20k using Amsoil Interceptor 2 stroke pre-mix oil (and driving the car hard helps as well). With that said, the water/alcohol makes alot of sense and I'll put it on someday, I just don't really feel a need to turn the boost up because I get enough tickets already and beat essentially 99% of the cars on the road as it is

That's after only about 5k miles I'd guess. Sucks that the engine is down again because of that, but in all honesty it'd need to get rebuilt again anyway since a crap tune I had (for about 3 months) warped the apex seals in my rear rotor.

Funny thing is though, I still made basically 470whp with low compression, bad rear seals, and a weak side seal. I'm VERY curious to see how much I'll make with everything working as it should.

[Signal 2]

Originally Posted by yzf-r1

....the water/alcohol makes alot of sense and I'll put it on someday, I just don't really feel a need to turn the boost up because I get enough tickets already and beat essentially 99% of the cars on the road as it is

I'm also at stock boost on a relatively stock engine (just bolt-ons, emissions deleated and PFC). I have less than $300 in my system and it's pretty low key, using stock WS washer tank (I can PM you a link on another form with pictures if interested). Bought everything and then procrastinated for over a year.
I guess my point is...I understand that "someday" thing, but I wouldn't delay getting it just because your still at stock boost. In the summer I used to see spikes of 10 C or more after rowing hard through the gears getting on the freeway. Now...maybe 2 or 3 C. and that's with it set to come on at 2 psi.

[yzf-r1]

Originally Posted by Signal 2

I'm also at stock boost on a relatively stock engine (just bolt-ons, emissions deleated and PFC). I have less than $300 in my system and it's pretty low key, using stock WS washer tank (I can PM you a link on another form with pictures if interested).

Sure - thanks

I guess my point is...I understand that "someday" thing, but I wouldn't delay getting it just because your still at stock boost. In the summer I used to see spikes of 10 C or more after rowing hard through the gears getting on the freeway. Now...maybe 2 or 3 C. and that's with it set to come on at 2 psi.

I run 14-15 psi

[Signal 2]

Originally Posted by yzf-r1

....I run 14-15 psi

Then I mis-understood you earlier. You should definitely get a kit.

[Fendamonky]

Originally Posted by Fendamonky

The rotor face and housings were SPOTLESS! There was literally zero carbon buildup on the rotors, around the apex seals, or in the grooves for the apex seals. I was shocked as I expected there to be at least a little something there.

Just for comparison sake...

Here's a pic I pulled off google of a rotor with carbon buildup. (I'm fairly certain this is AFTER the rotors had been cleaned to a certain extent)







Not a pretty sight.... (I'm fairly certain the thread/page I pulled these from had the guy putting this rotor INTO a "new" engine!!!)



Versus what came out of mine with A/I spraying.

(obviously this is FRESH out of the engine, there is still oil pooling underneath everything. I'm willing to wager that a minute or two with a dry rag would have had 90% of the discoloration gone)








Not to beat the horse to death... But spending a couple hundred bucks on a water injection system is WELL worth the long term effects.