Oil injection hole... Put to good use?

[RETed]

Originally Posted by Rotary Related

Go look up the term "specific gravity" in reguards to liquids. Then tell me if you think oil should be injected through fuel injectors. Even different fuels flow at different rates though the same injector. I doubt oil gets through very easily. I'd love to see how much oil is just in people's fuel tanks after premixing for long periods of time. I would guess there is more oil then there should be as far as the "magic" ratio goes. Just use the OMP they work fine. Hell even my electronic one works fine all the time. Yes I've checked it multiple times to be sure.

PREMIX is designed to be mixed with gasoline.
For the record, I have no measured specific gravity of clean gasoline versus gasoline + premix, but I doubt it has significant affect on it enough to throw off fuel mixtures.
I run a Haltech so I don't care - I can adjust my fuel delivery at any time with relative ease.
Why don't we all convert to standalone EMS' and this would not be a problem.
Prior to the Haltech E8 going in, I was running a rechipped ECU with no problems.
If you're worried about premix and suspension in gas...
I've had my car sitting for 2 years+ at one point; the premix was still fully mixed and suspensed in the gas tank.
In fact, the car started, ran, and almost 300 miles from Las Vegas, NV to Los Angeles, CA, once a new battery and alternator was installed.

The "magic" ratio has been scientifically concluded from Mazda.
It's all written up in SAE papers.

No one said the stock oil injectors doesn't work.
My point is that there's a better way.

I'm sorry everyone's assumption that the OMPs don't work right is incorrect.

Read above.

I doubt it's worth mentioning on a rotary but oil de-octanes fuel pretty good as well. You want as little as possible to get the lubrication done.

Premix is DESIGNED to be burned.
Engine motor oil isn't.
You just farted on yourself.

Sorry for this outburst I hate premixing.

You should've just said that in the first place and leave it at that.
You trying to argue your point makes you look stupid.


-Ted

[My5ABaby]

My car has also sat for long periods with no noticable difference in the premix. I've also been premixing for 8 years and the premix hasn't magically built up in the tank.

Originally Posted by RETed

You just farted on yourself.

-Ted

[RETed]

Sorry, Rotary Related is an idiot.

He has no idea what "offset" is: http://www.rotarycarclub.com/rotary_...ead.php?t=1828

This he claimed the 3-stage intake system on an RX-8 engine is the same as the VDI on a Kouki FC non-turbo: http://www.rotarycarclub.com/rotary_...ad.php?t=13146

Now he's spewing so much bullshit in this thread, isn't it against the rules to be doing this crap?


-Ted

[Rotary Related]

Originally Posted by RETed

Sorry, Rotary Related is an idiot.

He has no idea what "offset" is: http://www.rotarycarclub.com/rotary_...ead.php?t=1828

This he claimed the 3-stage intake system on an RX-8 engine is the same as the VDI on a Kouki FC non-turbo: http://www.rotarycarclub.com/rotary_...ad.php?t=13146

Now he's spewing so much bullshit in this thread, isn't it against the rules to be doing this crap?


-Ted

You can disagree with me on the wheel offset topic all you want that's your right but I don't think your in your "rights" to say I'm and idiot or my website sucks or whatever you said. All because your mad about not agreeing with my viewpoint. It's certainly not right for you to post this message that you have posted. Nor is it right that everyone bandwagons on with you and just agrees without thinking of what they are saying.

Here's some info: The Renesis uses the same devices as the kouki as you put it (Series 5 RX-7) engine, plus one change the SSV. I've explained it in the other thread where "that" conversation is taking place. It's not up for speculation that's what it is and how it works. so how is that misleading? or as you so eloquently put it "spewing bullshit". It is what it is. I'm sorry if you don't understand how it works or have one that's apart in your garage so you can look at it and see how it works. I'm not gonna say don't reply if you don't know the answer because that's someting you would do.

I didn't say mixing oil with the fuel in the gas tank doesn't work I just don't see the point when Mazda has already gave you a device for doing so. I am against using the engine's oil that's silly, but also the only option they could logically used from a factory stand point. Who would buy a car that has to have something poured into the fuel tank or an extra tank under the hood of a car every few thousand miles or at every fill up? Probably less than 1% of the earth's population that's who.

A word on specific gravity:

I have seen in person in real life not on the internet the repercussions of specific gravity. A friend of mine lost a engine due to changing fuel BRANDS not fuel types or octanes. Going from one 110 octane fuel to another brand. The engine destroyed itself in short order. 1 day of that fuel and it was over. Come to find out the specific gravity of that fuel was quite a bit different than the one he was tuned for. Yes this car was at the ragged edge of it's tune so I admit it's a bit of a stretch in comparison but it shows the consequences. This is when I learned about this topic. Think of the specific gravity of a liquid as the weight/size of the molecules. Basically fatter ones don't fit through as easy so there's less fuel at a given load and RPM so the engine destroyed itself.

Surely the oil suspended in the fuel of a premixed rotary falls in the same category. Although it may not matter on a rotary engine it still obeys the laws of physics just like a piston engine. Rotaries don't use a different type of special injector so there's no arguing this. It's a real life effect. Whether or not it matters on rotaries I don't know but its also the reason I don't believe in putting oil in my fuel tank. I just don't know what the exact outcome actually is so I don't mess with it. Which is why I don't condone people telling others to do it. If they want to do it then by all means it's your vehicle and your money do what you want. I expect the same respect for my view in return.

I reviewed this post and kind of came off as a my way or the highway guy when in fact I was trying to add some intelligent reasoning of why he may want to look into it before doing it. I apologize for any dickheadedness

__________________

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[RETed]

Originally Posted by Rotary Related

You can disagree with me on the wheel offset topic all you want that's your right but I don't think your in your "rights" to say I'm and idiot or my website sucks or whatever you said. All because your mad about not agreeing with my viewpoint. It's certainly not right for you to post this message that you have posted. Nor is it right that everyone bandwagons on with you and just agrees without thinking of what they are saying.

Last time I checked, this was the U.S. of A.
Last time I checked, free speech was protected under the constitution - see 1st Amendment.
Now, as long as I don't break any rules in this particular forum, I have every right to criticize you and your website.
The same goes for your retort on my comments - it works both ways.
This ends the lesson on what I can and cannot say.

I didn't say mixing oil with the fuel in the gas tank doesn't work I just don't see the point when Mazda has already gave you a device for doing so. I am against using the engine's oil that's silly, but also the only option they could logically used from a factory stand point. Who would buy a car that has to have something poured into the fuel tank or an extra tank under the hood of a car every few thousand miles or at every fill up? Probably less than 1% of the earth's population that's who.

Now begins the argument of stock versus modified...
If we were all satisfied with how the car came stock because it "worked okay", then we would never modify our cars.
I'm pretty sure we can agree this is not the case.
Why do we modify our suspensions?
Why do we change out turbos (for those who have turbos or what to add one on)?
Why do we port our engines?
And the list goes on...
It's an inherent want to make things BETTER - if you can't understand that concept, I'm wasting my time here.
BTW, I never inferred that you thought premixing didn't work.
I inferred you knocked premixing due to it's "inferior" delivery into the engine through BAD CONCLUSIONS (i.e. problems flowing through fuel injectors, etc.)

Mazda went with the their OMP system exactly as the same conclusion as you have - most consumers were not willing to deal with another consumable when it comes to automobile maintenance.
The OMP using engine motor oil is a compromise.
Mazda went with premixing on their winning LeMans car and all their top-tier racing rotary engines due to it's superior internal lubricating properties.
This is documented in SAE papers.

A word on specific gravity:

I have seen in person in real life not on the internet the repercussions of specific gravity. A friend of mine lost a engine due to changing fuel BRANDS not fuel types or octanes. Going from one 110 octane fuel to another brand. The engine destroyed itself in short order. 1 day of that fuel and it was over. Come to find out the specific gravity of that fuel was quite a bit different than the one he was tuned for. Yes this car was at the ragged edge of it's tune so I admit it's a bit of a stretch in comparison but it shows the consequences. This is when I learned about this topic. Think of the specific gravity of a liquid as the weight/size of the molecules. Basically fatter ones don't fit through as easy so there's less fuel at a given load and RPM so the engine destroyed itself.

A word about this person:
He's a fucking idiot.
Anyone who messes with LEADED GAS and doesn't know to retune for LEADED GAS is a fucking idiot, even different brands of the same octane rating.
LEADED GAS manufacturers (i.e. VP, CAM2, Shell, etc.) all post SPECIFIC GRAVITY specs on their fuels for a reason.
If *I* were messing with leaded gas, I would be checking spark plugs on every run, period, no excuse - even with SAME BRAND and SAME OCTANE fuel but DIFFERENT CONTAINERS.
Old school racers used to tell me that VP had quality control problems, and CAM2 was better - I'd still be keeping an eye on AFR's on EVERY RUN.
At this level of the game, this is what you're SUPPOSED to be doing.
You mentioned "ragged tune" - even more support he's a FUCKING IDIOT.
Did I mention he's a FUCKING IDIOT?

Since you're giving a lesson on specific gravity, let me bring up the exact definition of "specific gravity" and not "think" what it is:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Specific_gravity

You got "weight" right, but "size" does not necessarily applies here.
"Mass" is the correct term.
"Density" is also the correct term to use here.
Larger "size" does not necessarily mean higher "weight" - if you can't figure that out, you need to go look up "molecular weight".
I didn't take two semester of regular chemistry, two semesters of organic chemistry, and three semesters of physics for nothing in college...

Surely the oil suspended in the fuel of a premixed rotary falls in the same category. Although it may not matter on a rotary engine it still obeys the laws of physics just like a piston engine. Rotaries don't use a different type of special injector so there's no arguing this. It's a real life effect. Whether or not it matters on rotaries I don't know but its also the reason I don't believe in putting oil in my fuel tank. I just don't know what the exact outcome actually is so I don't mess with it. Which is why I don't condone people telling others to do it. If they want to do it then by all means it's your vehicle and your money do what you want. I expect the same respect for my view in return.

Reread what I said...
I didn't say there was no difference in specific gravity.
I DID SAY that I bet this difference in specific gravity is NOT SIGNIFICANT (to affect fuel flowing through fuel injectors).
The burden of proof also falls on you to prove me wrong as much as you want to prove me wrong.

MY EXPERIENCE shows that premixing doesn't have all the problems you have described.
5+ years of premixing with a reprogrammed ECU
5+ years of premixing with a Haltech E8
A total of over a decade of premixing with no problems in terms of fuel delivery or direct problems of the premix to any of the stock components.
THIS is what I base my replies on - my direct experience.


-Ted