So what is a 12a worth now?

junkyard racer · 01-18-2010, 09:00 AM

With the 12a now gone from Mazda, what is the value of a good used one now? I have been told not to accept anything less than $800 for it, and I have been told if I parted the engine, I could get in excess of $1000 for it.

Long story short, I have one that has 40k miles on it (rebuilt), with good compression. I also have a factory replacement with around 35k mikes it.

What is the value of these engines?

Kentetsu · 01-18-2010, 09:25 AM

That seems like a bit of a stretch. I recently paid 250 for a running motor, 67k on it with no rebuild.

If it were a recent rebuild, then I could see 800 or so.

.

WE3RX7 · 01-18-2010, 10:14 AM

The cost will always be driven by demand - unfortunately, most guys will opt to throw a 13B in their car when the 12A gives out. This will become more true as time goes on and 12A parts get harder to find. Just because its limited quantity doesnt always mean its going to drive up cost.

codytheoutlaw · 01-18-2010, 11:27 AM

more than likely the lack of replacement parts will make them worth less. when my 12a dies my car will get a 13b.

91GSL-SE · 01-18-2010, 12:18 PM

I sell good used 12A motors for $650 with core. These are tested with our RE compression tester to ensure it has good compression. We also test coolant pressure making sure it proplerly hold, and there are no leaks in the system. Also the oil pressure is tested. We have had success selling our used 12A motors at this price for some time now. A rebuilt 12A can range from $1600-$2400, depending on mods.

12arotary · 01-18-2010, 01:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RW-7

. A rebuilt 12A can range from $1600-$2400, depending on mods.

i've tried selling my fully built boosted 12a for some time now and I never get offers over 1200 for everything so 1600 is a stretch unless your a company and offer a warranty- i've gotten several good running 12a's for 200-300$ and that is very normal, i've never had trouble finding them

PDXGSL · 01-18-2010, 02:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RW-7

A rebuilt 12A can range from $1600-$2400, depending on mods.

Tell me about it.

junkyard racer · 01-18-2010, 06:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RW-7

I sell good used 12A motors for $650 with core. These are tested with our RE compression tester to ensure it has good compression. We also test coolant pressure making sure it proplerly hold, and there are no leaks in the system. Also the oil pressure is tested. We have had success selling our used 12A motors at this price for some time now. A rebuilt 12A can range from $1600-$2400, depending on mods.

The 40k mile engine I have, I am TOLD that it is in very great shape. Of course it came with my car as a spare engine, so that's all I really know if it. I also was thinking the 650- range until my buddy told me other-wise. (which is why I asked)

I am with everyone else though. When my 12a lets go, a 13b will be in its place. If I could sell both of these 12a's for decent money...I would in a heart beat and just get a 13b.

spankle my wankle · 01-18-2010, 06:09 PM

I have a brand new rebuild on mine, less than 300 miles and its got 3rd gen corner seals, and Id sell the whole dang car for $1,300.

91GSL-SE · 01-19-2010, 12:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 12arotary

i've tried selling my fully built boosted 12a for some time now and I never get offers over 1200 for everything so 1600 is a stretch unless your a company and offer a warranty- i've gotten several good running 12a's for 200-300$ and that is very normal, i've never had trouble finding them

Yes we do offer Warranty.

Considering all that goes into one of my builds $1600 is a good deal.
I could build one for a lot less, but you would not be happy with the results, and as a builder, I will not do this.
All parts out of spec are replaced, including housing. Plates are lapped to spec, all new seals, o-rings and gasket. I use OEM parts also. Plus the time it takes. You do the math.. Its a good deal on a motor that will last you many many miles.

PDXGSL · 01-19-2010, 02:06 PM

^indeed.

Rogue_Wulff · 01-19-2010, 02:33 PM

In the race classes that demand the use of a stock 12A, $1600 for a quality rebuild that will last several seasons is a bargain, compared to a few $300-500 used engines, that may not last an entire race, let alone season. Yet, there's still many that go the "Cheaper" route, and end up paying lots more in the long run.
If I had a cheapo car that I didn't feel was worth putting in an engine that I knew I could get 100K+ out of without issues, I might be tempted to go the used engine route. But, I'm more of "Once and Done" type of person, so I'd be building my own, or buying a Quality rebuilt, unless I was just trying to one running and peddle it for some quick cash.

For the record, I found out my $500 car had a rebuilt 12A, from a reputable builder, after I had bought the car. That was 5 years ago, and that same $500 car has won me 3 consecutive local CSP championships, while suffering little more than a clutch failure. It has also given me over 30K miles of totally reliable service, between the track/autocross outings.
So yes, I'd drop $1600 for a quality rebuild without hesitation, if I needed another 12A (in the car I plan to keep), assuming mine was too far gone to rebuild myself. Granted, I could likely build my own for less, but all it takes to wind up having to do it all again is one minor mistake. That one minor mistake could run the cost of rebuilding an engine yourself to as much, or more, than buying a rebuilt engine with warrentee.

Unfortunately, buying a used engine, even a low mile one rebuilt by a quality builder, will always be a crapshoot, unless you are very well acquainted with the seller, and know how it was treated. Even a brand new engine, not treated right, may not last 30K. For that reason, selling a used engine for top dollar is often difficult, no matter the history of said engine.

j_tso · 01-19-2010, 03:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by codytheoutlaw

more than likely the lack of replacement parts will make them worth less. when my 12a dies my car will get a 13b.

That's why I went with a 13B in my first gen as well.

However, I have been hoarding 12A parts because I want an old school project/race car, so I'm going to be using carbon apex seals.

bwaits · 01-19-2010, 03:44 PM

Yes, as stated, the race classes that mandate 12As will be where the demand comes from. This will subside when the sanctioning bodies are bombarded with request from competitors for a cheaper alternative. Normally takes a good number of years from parts becoming NLA - but it will happen.

-billy

12arotary · 01-20-2010, 12:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RW-7

Yes we do offer Warranty.

Considering all that goes into one of my builds $1600 is a good deal.
I could build one for a lot less, but you would not be happy with the results, and as a builder, I will not do this.
All parts out of spec are replaced, including housing. Plates are lapped to spec, all new seals, o-rings and gasket. I use OEM parts also. Plus the time it takes. You do the math.. Its a good deal on a motor that will last you many many miles.

that is a good deal, I was just speaking for those of us who don't have shops- like an engine personally built by me isn't worth jack

01-18-2010, 09:00 AM	#1
junkyard racer Rotary Fan in Training Join Date: May 2008 iTrader: (0) Posts: 35 Rep Power: 0	So what is a 12a worth now? With the 12a now gone from Mazda, what is the value of a good used one now? I have been told not to accept anything less than $800 for it, and I have been told if I parted the engine, I could get in excess of $1000 for it. Long story short, I have one that has 40k miles on it (rebuilt), with good compression. I also have a factory replacement with around 35k mikes it. What is the value of these engines?

01-18-2010, 09:25 AM	#2
Kentetsu RCC Contributor Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Grand Rapids, Michigan iTrader: (1) Posts: 530 Rep Power: 17	That seems like a bit of a stretch. I recently paid 250 for a running motor, 67k on it with no rebuild. If it were a recent rebuild, then I could see 800 or so. . __________________ "Learn from the past, or it will become your future...." '85 GS 12a + LSD/Sterling carb/Respeed coilovers/Respeed front swaybar/Respeed adj. rear spring perches/Illuminas/Bilsteins on rear AutoX vids @ http://www.youtube.com/user/Kentetsu1

01-18-2010, 12:18 PM	#5
91GSL-SE At the dirt track. Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Willamette Valley, OR iTrader: (5) Posts: 89 Rep Power: 16	I sell good used 12A motors for $650 with core. These are tested with our RE compression tester to ensure it has good compression. We also test coolant pressure making sure it proplerly hold, and there are no leaks in the system. Also the oil pressure is tested. We have had success selling our used 12A motors at this price for some time now. A rebuilt 12A can range from $1600-$2400, depending on mods. __________________ Rollin like a reuleaux. Unstoppable.

01-19-2010, 02:06 PM	#11
PDXGSL Rotard Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Eugene, Or iTrader: (0) Posts: 6 Rep Power: 0	^indeed. __________________ 82 GSL, 12A Streetport (in progress)

01-19-2010, 03:44 PM	#14
bwaits Talk - Action = Nothing Join Date: Feb 2008 iTrader: (3) Posts: 166 Rep Power: 18	Yes, as stated, the race classes that mandate 12As will be where the demand comes from. This will subside when the sanctioning bodies are bombarded with request from competitors for a cheaper alternative. Normally takes a good number of years from parts becoming NLA - but it will happen. -billy __________________

01-18-2010, 10:14 AM	#3
WE3RX7 RCC Addict Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: VA iTrader: (1) Posts: 1,812 Rep Power: 18	The cost will always be driven by demand - unfortunately, most guys will opt to throw a 13B in their car when the 12A gives out. This will become more true as time goes on and 12A parts get harder to find. Just because its limited quantity doesnt always mean its going to drive up cost.

01-18-2010, 11:27 AM	#4
codytheoutlaw The Newbie Join Date: Dec 2009 iTrader: (0) Posts: 10 Rep Power: 0	more than likely the lack of replacement parts will make them worth less. when my 12a dies my car will get a 13b.

01-18-2010, 06:09 PM	#9
spankle my wankle Rotary Fanatic Join Date: Feb 2008 iTrader: (0) Posts: 185 Rep Power: 17	I have a brand new rebuild on mine, less than 300 miles and its got 3rd gen corner seals, and Id sell the whole dang car for $1,300.

01-19-2010, 02:33 PM	#12
Rogue_Wulff Non Member Join Date: Jun 2008 iTrader: (0) Posts: 310 Rep Power: 17	In the race classes that demand the use of a stock 12A, $1600 for a quality rebuild that will last several seasons is a bargain, compared to a few $300-500 used engines, that may not last an entire race, let alone season. Yet, there's still many that go the "Cheaper" route, and end up paying lots more in the long run. If I had a cheapo car that I didn't feel was worth putting in an engine that I knew I could get 100K+ out of without issues, I might be tempted to go the used engine route. But, I'm more of "Once and Done" type of person, so I'd be building my own, or buying a Quality rebuilt, unless I was just trying to one running and peddle it for some quick cash. For the record, I found out my $500 car had a rebuilt 12A, from a reputable builder, after I had bought the car. That was 5 years ago, and that same $500 car has won me 3 consecutive local CSP championships, while suffering little more than a clutch failure. It has also given me over 30K miles of totally reliable service, between the track/autocross outings. So yes, I'd drop $1600 for a quality rebuild without hesitation, if I needed another 12A (in the car I plan to keep), assuming mine was too far gone to rebuild myself. Granted, I could likely build my own for less, but all it takes to wind up having to do it all again is one minor mistake. That one minor mistake could run the cost of rebuilding an engine yourself to as much, or more, than buying a rebuilt engine with warrentee. Unfortunately, buying a used engine, even a low mile one rebuilt by a quality builder, will always be a crapshoot, unless you are very well acquainted with the seller, and know how it was treated. Even a brand new engine, not treated right, may not last 30K. For that reason, selling a used engine for top dollar is often difficult, no matter the history of said engine.