to eBay or not to eBay?

DriFD3S · 12-02-2011, 11:13 AM

I am interested in buying an SS Downpipe/midpipe combo,
straight pipes, no catalytic converters,
because, I am a horrible human being...
exhaust wrapping seems like a very very good idea to me,

I found about 3 or 4 different DP/MP's on eBay,
for less than $200...
is this a good idea?
or am I missing something?

Also, my Blitz NUR Spec Cat-Back, will it fit on the eBay pipes?
does anyone know anyone who is selling what I am looking for?

Will my engine blow if I modify the entire exhaust?
I heard about something on "The other forum" called the three strikes rule.
will three modifications without tuning your ECU makes your engine go bye bye really quickly???

Thank you RCC!
you're all like family to me, as we all love rotary!

Fendamonky · 12-02-2011, 12:09 PM

You have a lot left to learn about these cars....

DO NOT just randomly buy a full exhaust unless you have all the supporting mods (tuneable ECU, boost control, upgraded fuel system, ported wastegate, etc., etc) to back it.

If you do get a full exhaust before your car can handle it then you will (most likely) end up overboosting (boost creep) and blowing your motor.

Fendamonky · 12-02-2011, 12:16 PM

Also, be aware that many of the kits you're going to find on ebay have DP's made for LHD cars. They WILL NOT work with your RHD vehicle unless they specifically have that big ass dent in the top bend to clear your steering column.

dabranco · 12-02-2011, 01:44 PM

I wouldn't. usually the quality (my experiance) is that ebay stuff, well the cheap stuff they sell lacks decent quality and fitment can be of. I am not saying all ebay items are like this!!!!! I would look for a brand name or a seller, store, or company that deals with rotary specific parts. I would also look into a tunable ECU first though before you get to heavy into mods.

DriFD3S · 12-03-2011, 01:13 AM

Thanks for the advice, I will continue to try to do more research,
Still, sorry for my lack of rotary knowledge.

='\ ...

I have a few months until it's summer again,
and my "goal" for myself was these things,

-PFC
-Catless DP/MP
-Air Intake

What other things should be on my list???
please, give me loads of items that are important, and why!
my thirst for knowledge is as unquenchable as Charlie Sheen's pepsi habit!

Signal 2 · 12-03-2011, 06:05 AM

Why are you convinced you DON'T want a cat? Yes, an open exhaust will allow for more power but as mentioned it can also lead to boost creep by overwhelming your wastegate. And a boost controller will NOT help for creep, only porting the wastegate (requires pulling the turbos) or keeping a cat. A resonated mid-pipe MIGHT help, but I have no experience with them so I'm not sure. They do cost more and I think you want to get one that has a proven record with the higher exhaust temps of a rotary.
Keeping a cat, preferably a hi-flow cat, has other advantages too. It helps quiet the car to a level where a stereo is functional. It also keeps the fumes from making your eyes water and smelling like a monkey's ass at high-noon.

And please, enough with the self-flagellation in your posts. It's just wierd. Ask a straight question and I'll (we'll) answer it if we can.

yzf-r1 · 12-04-2011, 12:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Signal 2

Keeping a cat, preferably a hi-flow cat, has other advantages too. It helps quiet the car to a level where a stereo is functional. It also keeps the fumes from making your eyes water and smelling like a monkey's ass at high-noon.

I've been running a resonated midpipe for a very long time and I don't really notice the vapor/fumes all that much, perhaps I'm just used to it

Signal 2 · 12-04-2011, 03:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by yzf-r1

I've been running a resonated midpipe for a very long time and I don't really notice the vapor/fumes all that much, perhaps I'm just used to it

OK, as I said, I don't have experience with them.
I do know a friend's single turbo frequently tracked car with a mid-pipe makes a god-awful stench. I make a point not to follow him in traffic. And as a former smoker (now just the occasional cigar) I'm not all that sensitive, but his exhaust really does make my eyes water.

Tuning has something to do with the smell I suppose, but his car is really LOUD too. Fortunately the Harley riders took the heat off of cars like his on that issue.

Fendamonky · 12-05-2011, 11:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Signal 2

OK, as I said, I don't have experience with them.
I do know a friend's single turbo frequently tracked car with a mid-pipe makes a god-awful stench.

I think that has a LOT to do with the tune and his cruising AFRs. After getting a tune from Enzo my idle and cruising AFRs were pretty damned rich, I couldn't stay in one spot in my garage for more than 30 seconds before my eyes would start to burn.

After getting it retuned, and having more acceptable AFRs/almost 100 extra whp, I barely noticed the horrible amounts of unburnt fuel in the air. This was with me running a straight (4") exhaust, zero cats and just two mufflers. (Yeah, it's loud as hell now! lol)

Fendamonky · 12-03-2011, 12:59 PM

Goddamnit!!!

I just typed out a LONG detailed reply on my phone, and the fucking thing got rejected by the forum (and lost) becaust it took too long...

Basically you cannot safely run a free flow midpipe unless you have a ported wastegate. Otherwise you'll get boost creep.

You'll also want to adress fueling before a MP. The stock system only (barely) supports 13psi, you want more than that.

Cold air matters a lot for power and safety. Upgrade your intercooler and make sure it's ducted!

Auxillary Injection is a godsend. Get it. You can run a 50/50 mix of DISTILLED water and Methanol for fantastic results. I wouldn't use windshield wiper fluid, but that's just me..

DriFD3S · 12-04-2011, 12:51 AM

#6 - I control power, I don't just want it to have it.
#7 - water/meth injection is a good idea, even under stock circumstances?

I guess I don't have a Honda Civic, or a Nissan R32/S13 where an exhaust and intake will be awesome, I have a much much better car than that.
Honestly, more than anything I expect my car to be able to perform.

#6 - What is a "good" catalytic converter?
#7 - will meth/water help my fuel economy, or help performance to a noticeable extent?

Signal 2 · 12-04-2011, 05:52 AM

AI [Water (distilled) or water/methanol injection] won't do anything for fuel economy. It's primary purpose is to remove heat from the intake charge and, ultimately, from the engine. Heat is stress. Turbos create alot of heat. Heat is reduced by AI. It also functions to reduce knock and control carbon build-up over time. So it is beneficial even on a near-stock car and stock boost levels. This is the case with my car and I have AI (water only).
You can google terms like Auxillary Injection and probably get alot better explanation than I can give you here.

For a high-flow cat, I recommend BONEZ. All stainless, quality contruction, it accomodates the airpump if you still have it and it flows very well. I've had one on my car for over 9 yrs with no issues.

Fendamonky · 12-05-2011, 11:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Signal 2

AI [Water (distilled) or water/methanol injection] won't do anything for fuel economy. It's primary purpose is to remove heat from the intake charge and, ultimately, from the engine. Heat is stress. Turbos create alot of heat. Heat is reduced by AI. It also functions to reduce knock and control carbon build-up over time. So it is beneficial even on a near-stock car and stock boost levels. This is the case with my car and I have AI (water only).
You can google terms like Auxillary Injection and probably get alot better explanation than I can give you here.

Water/methanol injection serves four purposes, three intentionally and one is a side effect.

The methanol atomizes almost instantly when it enters your intake piping. The process of atomizing leeches heat from the surrounding air, effectively cooling the intake charge. In addition to providing cooling to the air, the methanol adds a little bit of bang for your buck inside the combustion chamber, helping to partially mitigate the non-combustability of water.

Water does not atomize as easily as methanol, as a result you still have the mist of water entering into your combustion chamber. This mist flashes when the actual combustion takes place, it helps to absorb heat from that combustion cycle. The water won't do anything for latent heat during the combustion cycle it's present in, though it WILL help to dramatically reduce the possibility of predetonation. The cooling properties of the water come into play for the following combustion cycle, as it helps remove latent heat from the chamber as it leaves (colder starting temp = colder ending temp).

On the side water and methanol will help keep your engine spotless when it comes to carbon buildup.

We just cracked my engine open this past Friday because I had a problem with a side seal taking a shit. The rotor face and housings were SPOTLESS! There was literally zero carbon buildup on the rotors, around the apex seals, or in the grooves for the apex seals. I was shocked as I expected there to be at least a little something there.

Cooling and power aside... the ability to combat predetonation and cleaning properties should be MORE than enough reason to spring the $400-$500 a decent A/I kit will run you. I'm personally a fan of the Aquamist kits, I picked up their (now discontinued) basic pressure activated kit while I was in England and recently moved on to their HFS-3 kit with rx-7 Summer Unit (damned A/I is smarter than I am, I'm positive!!) and am loving it!

Signal 2 · 12-05-2011, 07:54 PM

^We're getting a bit off-topic, but if that was meant to convince me, your too late. I'm already running AI.

Mine is (currently) water only and a very simple (inexpensive and reliable) boost-activated system.
Since I don't run methanol, I don't count on much of a drop in IAT. In fact my IAT sensor is located pre-nozzle, and obviously I don't tune with it.
Thus, my AI only controls 3 things...knock, carbon and heat. The reduced heat is mostly seen in the lack in of temp spikes I previously saw after periods of hard boost. It's those kind of heat spikes that IMO tend produce alot of stress to things like coolant seals.

Good to hear about the clean rotors and seal grooves. My car's put up for the winter but my winter 'list' includes changing out plugs. Unlike before, there's been really no indication they're in need of changing...even though they've been in there about 50% longer. I've had no hard(er) starting, no break up, no slightly lumpy idle. Curious to see what they look like.

yzf-r1 · 12-06-2011, 01:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Signal 2

The reduced heat is mostly seen in the lack in of temp spikes I previously saw after periods of hard boost. It's those kind of heat spikes that IMO tend produce alot of stress to things like coolant seals.

This is a great point, and probably the best argument of all for water injection

Oh - and use Iridium plugs, they are the ONLY plugs that last 10k+ in these motors

12-02-2011, 11:13 AM	#1
DriFD3S Rotary Fanatic Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Edmonton, AB, Canada iTrader: (0) Posts: 174 Rep Power: 0	to eBay or not to eBay? I am interested in buying an SS Downpipe/midpipe combo, straight pipes, no catalytic converters, because, I am a horrible human being... exhaust wrapping seems like a very very good idea to me, I found about 3 or 4 different DP/MP's on eBay, for less than $200... is this a good idea? or am I missing something? Also, my Blitz NUR Spec Cat-Back, will it fit on the eBay pipes? does anyone know anyone who is selling what I am looking for? Will my engine blow if I modify the entire exhaust? I heard about something on "The other forum" called the three strikes rule. will three modifications without tuning your ECU makes your engine go bye bye really quickly??? Thank you RCC! you're all like family to me, as we all love rotary! __________________ *Live the DriFD3S or die trying.* JDM True Story. the Vacuum line, to my MAP became detached while I was legally drifting. my engine would not rev past 2500, and idled from 300-650 and was stalling. Fortunately, I acquired a Zip-Tie. I fixed a catastrophic engine failure, With a Zip-Tie. JDM FTW.

12-03-2011, 01:13 AM	#5
DriFD3S Rotary Fanatic Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Edmonton, AB, Canada iTrader: (0) Posts: 174 Rep Power: 0	Thanks for the advice, I will continue to try to do more research, Still, sorry for my lack of rotary knowledge. ='\ ... I have a few months until it's summer again, and my "goal" for myself was these things, -PFC -Catless DP/MP -Air Intake What other things should be on my list??? please, give me loads of items that are important, and why! my thirst for knowledge is as unquenchable as Charlie Sheen's pepsi habit! __________________ *Live the DriFD3S or die trying.* JDM True Story. the Vacuum line, to my MAP became detached while I was legally drifting. my engine would not rev past 2500, and idled from 300-650 and was stalling. Fortunately, I acquired a Zip-Tie. I fixed a catastrophic engine failure, With a Zip-Tie. JDM FTW.

12-04-2011, 12:51 AM	#11
DriFD3S Rotary Fanatic Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Edmonton, AB, Canada iTrader: (0) Posts: 174 Rep Power: 0	#6 - I control power, I don't just want it to have it. #7 - water/meth injection is a good idea, even under stock circumstances? I guess I don't have a Honda Civic, or a Nissan R32/S13 where an exhaust and intake will be awesome, I have a much much better car than that. Honestly, more than anything I expect my car to be able to perform. #6 - What is a "good" catalytic converter? #7 - will meth/water help my fuel economy, or help performance to a noticeable extent? __________________ *Live the DriFD3S or die trying.* JDM True Story. the Vacuum line, to my MAP became detached while I was legally drifting. my engine would not rev past 2500, and idled from 300-650 and was stalling. Fortunately, I acquired a Zip-Tie. I fixed a catastrophic engine failure, With a Zip-Tie. JDM FTW.

12-04-2011, 05:52 AM	#12
Signal 2 Viable Fossil Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Mid-West iTrader: (0) Posts: 199 Rep Power: 17	AI [Water (distilled) or water/methanol injection] won't do anything for fuel economy. It's primary purpose is to remove heat from the intake charge and, ultimately, from the engine. Heat is stress. Turbos create alot of heat. Heat is reduced by AI. It also functions to reduce knock and control carbon build-up over time. So it is beneficial even on a near-stock car and stock boost levels. This is the case with my car and I have AI (water only). You can google terms like Auxillary Injection and probably get alot better explanation than I can give you here. For a high-flow cat, I recommend BONEZ. All stainless, quality contruction, it accomodates the airpump if you still have it and it flows very well. I've had one on my car for over 9 yrs with no issues. __________________ Jim VR R1 FD

12-05-2011, 07:54 PM	#14
Signal 2 Viable Fossil Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Mid-West iTrader: (0) Posts: 199 Rep Power: 17	^We're getting a bit off-topic, but if that was meant to convince me, your too late. I'm already running AI. Mine is (currently) water only and a very simple (inexpensive and reliable) boost-activated system. Since I don't run methanol, I don't count on much of a drop in IAT. In fact my IAT sensor is located pre-nozzle, and obviously I don't tune with it. Thus, my AI only controls 3 things...knock, carbon and heat. The reduced heat is mostly seen in the lack in of temp spikes I previously saw after periods of hard boost. It's those kind of heat spikes that IMO tend produce alot of stress to things like coolant seals. Good to hear about the clean rotors and seal grooves. My car's put up for the winter but my winter 'list' includes changing out plugs. Unlike before, there's been really no indication they're in need of changing...even though they've been in there about 50% longer. I've had no hard(er) starting, no break up, no slightly lumpy idle. Curious to see what they look like. __________________ Jim VR R1 FD Last edited by Signal 2; 12-05-2011 at 08:00 PM..

12-02-2011, 01:44 PM	#4
dabranco Rotary Fan in Training Join Date: Nov 2011 iTrader: (1) Posts: 47 Rep Power: 0	I wouldn't. usually the quality (my experiance) is that ebay stuff, well the cheap stuff they sell lacks decent quality and fitment can be of. I am not saying all ebay items are like this!!!!! I would look for a brand name or a seller, store, or company that deals with rotary specific parts. I would also look into a tunable ECU first though before you get to heavy into mods.

12-03-2011, 06:05 AM	#6
Signal 2 Viable Fossil Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Mid-West iTrader: (0) Posts: 199 Rep Power: 17	Why are you convinced you DON'T want a cat? Yes, an open exhaust will allow for more power but as mentioned it can also lead to boost creep by overwhelming your wastegate. And a boost controller will NOT help for creep, only porting the wastegate (requires pulling the turbos) or keeping a cat. A resonated mid-pipe MIGHT help, but I have no experience with them so I'm not sure. They do cost more and I think you want to get one that has a proven record with the higher exhaust temps of a rotary. Keeping a cat, preferably a hi-flow cat, has other advantages too. It helps quiet the car to a level where a stereo is functional. It also keeps the fumes from making your eyes water and smelling like a monkey's ass at high-noon. And please, enough with the self-flagellation in your posts. It's just wierd. Ask a straight question and I'll (we'll) answer it if we can. __________________ Jim VR R1 FD Last edited by Signal 2; 12-03-2011 at 06:12 AM..