Semi pp N/A build: question thread

Pettersen · 11-29-2011, 02:07 PM

Hi, i'm building a 13B semi PP N/A, and i'm probably going to have a few questions, so i might just have a thread so i don't clutter up the whole forum

Build specs so far:
S4T2 Irons, streetported.
S5NA Housings, Semi pp.
S5NA Rotors
Custom sequential ITB setup, modifying 03 04 Suzuki GSX-R1000 ITB's.

First problem is the injectors, how big injectors should i get for primary and secondary, and can anybody point me in a direction where i can find good quality items that will fit the 03 04 Suzuki GSX-R1000 ITB's i have? Would be great if i could use the fuel rails that came with them.

j9fd3s · 12-01-2011, 01:54 PM

i'd be really tempted to use the stock mazda primaries and whatever is in the suzuki TB's.

you need something like 800-1000cc of injector per rotor, NA. so 4 stock NA injectors are fine, or turbo injectors.

Pettersen · 12-01-2011, 02:50 PM

hmm, why didn't i think of that?? :P Thanks

I think the injectors are around 200-250cc(but i need to confirm that), so that would put me at around 1000cc to each rotor if i run 550cc primarys, or should i use 720cc as primarys and just use itb injectors on the pp's and have around 1000cc that way? or would that give me issues when it comes to tuning idle and so on?

C. Ludwig · 12-01-2011, 03:12 PM

On these NA engines, with the quality and results of the ID injectors, I see no reason to run secondary injectors. Personally, I would run a single 1000cc injector per rotor. This eliminates the tuning headache of secondary injectors. The ID-1000s will idle great, so why not?

The one reason I would consider running secondaries would be to use a standoff injector at the trumpet inlet of a single large runner (ie: full-PP). With the semi-PP, I doubt it would be worth the hassle to setup properly.

Pettersen · 12-01-2011, 04:08 PM

Would be a good idea to get new injectors, and i could always use the itb injectors if it turns out i need them

Any tips on where to get them?

C. Ludwig · 12-02-2011, 01:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pettersen

Would be a good idea to get new injectors, and i could always use the itb injectors if it turns out i need them

Any tips on where to get them?

I can send you a pair with the ECU when you purcase it.

Pettersen · 12-02-2011, 10:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by C. Ludwig

I can send you a pair with the ECU when you purcase it.

Sounds good, i'm going to haveto wait a while before i buy it, need to get all the engine parts here and get the engine machined first, i don't realy need the ecu until the engine is done anyway. somewhat limited funds so i can't afford to buy everything at the same time :/

FerociousP · 12-01-2011, 04:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by C. Ludwig

On these NA engines, with the quality and results of the ID injectors, I see no reason to run secondary injectors. Personally, I would run a single 1000cc injector per rotor. This eliminates the tuning headache of secondary injectors. The ID-1000s will idle great, so why not?

+1 on the ID injectors. I'm running 4x ID1000 in a stock configuration with a SprintRE and and my idle has never been better. Much better than the previous 20+ yr old (cleaned and flow tested) stock 550cc injectors.

Very simple and uncluttered solution.

Pettersen · 12-01-2011, 04:39 PM

Next question:

wich flywheel and clutch will give me some streetability but be good on track to? Engine specs further up in the thread.

Also i am using a NA transmission now, but i have a T2 trans i want to use. What is needed in order to install it except from a T2 driveshaft? Do i need to do anything with the rear diff?

My5ABaby · 12-01-2011, 05:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FerociousP

+1 on the ID injectors. I'm running 4x ID1000 in a stock configuration with a SprintRE and and my idle has never been better. Much better than the previous 20+ yr old (cleaned and flow tested) stock 550cc injectors.

Very simple and uncluttered solution.

+2 I'm running 2x1000 to replace cleaned/flowtested stock 460s on my N/A and my idle is better than it was for the prior 7 years of owning the car and I've only spent about 20 minutes tuning the idle. I got mine from Full Function Engineering.

C. Ludwig · 12-02-2011, 11:27 AM

Understand completely. We'll be here.

You'll want to pay particular attention to balancing. This engine should have extended RPM potential with the port scheme you're using. So you'll want it balanced correctly. Do not rely on the weight marks. Have it done correctly by someone experienced with a rotary. Clearancing the rotors is also a good idea.

Watch main bearing clearances. Some stock FC bearings are down to around .001". I like .0025-.003" on a high RPM engine. The back half of the rear main especially. FD or RX-8 gears and bearings would be a good start since they are multi-window and have more clearance built into them.

Use an FD oil pressure regulator and front oil relief valve spring. This will give you 100+ psi of oil pressure. They're cheap, even if you buy them new, and you know exactly what you're getting versus shimming FC stuff.

For a flywheel, I'd just recommend using something from a reputable company and SFI rated. ACT's ultra-light would probably be a good choice. Same with the clutch. Something from a reputable company like ACT, Spec, etc. Id' be tempted to use a solid hub puck clutch. It makes quick shifting a little easier. They don't drive terribly on the street either.

If you want to go to the TII trans, you will need the TII clutch and flywheel.

Pettersen · 12-02-2011, 04:07 PM

Going to have the rotors lightened, clearencing and balancing the whole rotating assembly.
The oil system will be T2 oil pump, FD or Race pressure regulator, dual oil filters and maby an aluminium oil pan from pineapple + new lines.

This thing just looks so much better than the stock oil pan.
http://www.pineappleracing.com/fcaluminumoilpan.aspx

Pettersen · 12-09-2011, 03:48 PM

What does the weight redux on rotors gain me?

I will have the entire rotating assembly balanced, and get the rotors clearenced but unshure if i realy need to get the rotors lightened + it's realy expensive to get the rotors lightened so i can't realy afford to do it unless i realy is a "big gain" (reliability/power/respons)

FerociousP · 12-09-2011, 04:59 PM

less rotating mass = better balancing and less movement at high rpms.

Pettersen · 02-05-2012, 02:52 PM

So i have been thinking, it might be a good idea to get the engine put together without spending to much money, since it's my first build and would suck if i screwed something up and it blew 500$ worth of ceramic seals and lightened rotors in addition to all the nececary expences.

The T2 engine i'm going to tear down have very low mileage, so can i use the rotor parts of the T2 rotors on the NA rotors? (Both S4) Or am i right in thinking that the apex seals and so on only should be reused on the rotors they were taken off, and also on the same sides.

11-29-2011, 02:07 PM	#1
Pettersen Rotary Fanatic Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Norway Posts: 163 Rep Power: 16	Semi pp N/A build: question thread Hi, i'm building a 13B semi PP N/A, and i'm probably going to have a few questions, so i might just have a thread so i don't clutter up the whole forum Build specs so far: S4T2 Irons, streetported. S5NA Housings, Semi pp. S5NA Rotors Custom sequential ITB setup, modifying 03 04 Suzuki GSX-R1000 ITB's. First problem is the injectors, how big injectors should i get for primary and secondary, and can anybody point me in a direction where i can find good quality items that will fit the 03 04 Suzuki GSX-R1000 ITB's i have? Would be great if i could use the fuel rails that came with them.

12-01-2011, 03:12 PM	#4
C. Ludwig Rotary Masochist Join Date: May 2008 Location: Floyds Knobs, IN Posts: 494 Rep Power: 17	On these NA engines, with the quality and results of the ID injectors, I see no reason to run secondary injectors. Personally, I would run a single 1000cc injector per rotor. This eliminates the tuning headache of secondary injectors. The ID-1000s will idle great, so why not? The one reason I would consider running secondaries would be to use a standoff injector at the trumpet inlet of a single large runner (ie: full-PP). With the semi-PP, I doubt it would be worth the hassle to setup properly. __________________ _______________________________________________ *One stop Haltech, AEM, Syvecs shopping. Installation and tuning.* http://www.lms-efi.com *Free support. Drop us an email.* chris@lms-efi.com 502-515-7482 Facebook @LMS-EFI

12-02-2011, 11:27 AM	#11
C. Ludwig Rotary Masochist Join Date: May 2008 Location: Floyds Knobs, IN Posts: 494 Rep Power: 17	Understand completely. We'll be here. You'll want to pay particular attention to balancing. This engine should have extended RPM potential with the port scheme you're using. So you'll want it balanced correctly. Do not rely on the weight marks. Have it done correctly by someone experienced with a rotary. Clearancing the rotors is also a good idea. Watch main bearing clearances. Some stock FC bearings are down to around .001". I like .0025-.003" on a high RPM engine. The back half of the rear main especially. FD or RX-8 gears and bearings would be a good start since they are multi-window and have more clearance built into them. Use an FD oil pressure regulator and front oil relief valve spring. This will give you 100+ psi of oil pressure. They're cheap, even if you buy them new, and you know exactly what you're getting versus shimming FC stuff. For a flywheel, I'd just recommend using something from a reputable company and SFI rated. ACT's ultra-light would probably be a good choice. Same with the clutch. Something from a reputable company like ACT, Spec, etc. Id' be tempted to use a solid hub puck clutch. It makes quick shifting a little easier. They don't drive terribly on the street either. If you want to go to the TII trans, you will need the TII clutch and flywheel. __________________ _______________________________________________ *One stop Haltech, AEM, Syvecs shopping. Installation and tuning.* http://www.lms-efi.com *Free support. Drop us an email.* chris@lms-efi.com 502-515-7482 Facebook @LMS-EFI

12-02-2011, 04:07 PM	#12
Pettersen Rotary Fanatic Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Norway Posts: 163 Rep Power: 16	Going to have the rotors lightened, clearencing and balancing the whole rotating assembly. The oil system will be T2 oil pump, FD or Race pressure regulator, dual oil filters and maby an aluminium oil pan from pineapple + new lines. This thing just looks so much better than the stock oil pan. http://www.pineappleracing.com/fcaluminumoilpan.aspx Last edited by Pettersen; 12-02-2011 at 04:32 PM.

12-09-2011, 04:59 PM	#14
FerociousP I-had-a-bad-experience... Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: M'boro Posts: 1,046 Rep Power: 19	less rotating mass = better balancing and less movement at high rpms. __________________ '15 Juke Nismo '06 MX-5 GT SOLD '04 S Silver RX-8 GT Track Day Use SOLD '90 Black TII vert w/ Sprint RE stock port/turbo DD dyno (242.6whp@5500rpm @12psi 8psi@redline) and (250ftlbtq@4800rpm @13psi) SOLD '89 GTUs 6p TII SOLD, '87 sport SOLD, '79 SA stock SOLD '91 B2600i 4x4 w/ Rx-8 LSD SOLD

12-01-2011, 01:54 PM	#2
j9fd3s Rotary Fanatic Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 123 Rep Power: 18	i'd be really tempted to use the stock mazda primaries and whatever is in the suzuki TB's. you need something like 800-1000cc of injector per rotor, NA. so 4 stock NA injectors are fine, or turbo injectors.

12-01-2011, 02:50 PM	#3
Pettersen Rotary Fanatic Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Norway Posts: 163 Rep Power: 16	hmm, why didn't i think of that?? :P Thanks I think the injectors are around 200-250cc(but i need to confirm that), so that would put me at around 1000cc to each rotor if i run 550cc primarys, or should i use 720cc as primarys and just use itb injectors on the pp's and have around 1000cc that way? or would that give me issues when it comes to tuning idle and so on?

12-01-2011, 04:08 PM	#5
Pettersen Rotary Fanatic Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Norway Posts: 163 Rep Power: 16	Would be a good idea to get new injectors, and i could always use the itb injectors if it turns out i need them Any tips on where to get them?

12-01-2011, 04:39 PM	#9
Pettersen Rotary Fanatic Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Norway Posts: 163 Rep Power: 16	Next question: wich flywheel and clutch will give me some streetability but be good on track to? Engine specs further up in the thread. Also i am using a NA transmission now, but i have a T2 trans i want to use. What is needed in order to install it except from a T2 driveshaft? Do i need to do anything with the rear diff?

12-09-2011, 03:48 PM	#13
Pettersen Rotary Fanatic Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Norway Posts: 163 Rep Power: 16	What does the weight redux on rotors gain me? I will have the entire rotating assembly balanced, and get the rotors clearenced but unshure if i realy need to get the rotors lightened + it's realy expensive to get the rotors lightened so i can't realy afford to do it unless i realy is a "big gain" (reliability/power/respons)

02-05-2012, 02:52 PM	#15
Pettersen Rotary Fanatic Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Norway Posts: 163 Rep Power: 16	So i have been thinking, it might be a good idea to get the engine put together without spending to much money, since it's my first build and would suck if i screwed something up and it blew 500$ worth of ceramic seals and lightened rotors in addition to all the nececary expences. The T2 engine i'm going to tear down have very low mileage, so can i use the rotor parts of the T2 rotors on the NA rotors? (Both S4) Or am i right in thinking that the apex seals and so on only should be reused on the rotors they were taken off, and also on the same sides.