The ideal Naturally Aspirated Rotary!

aaronoverholser · 03-21-2011, 01:30 PM

Hey guys I want your opinions,

I have an 86' GXL that has been my project car for the last 6 years. I do a few things to improve it each year and then drive it throughout the summer. It is my toy that i enjoy working on almost as much as driving.

This summarizes my car so far so that you know what I am after:

The first things I did with the car was just to fix little bugs and get it up and running. I then upgraded the exhaust to a full Racing beat system and deleted the air pump. I replaced the clutch with one near factory standard as far as Horse rating and added a koyo radiator.

I have fixed all the imperfections in the body and repainted it the factory dover white. I sanded down my factory GXL aluminum rims until they were smooth and the worked my way up until they shined like new ones. In the interior I have replaced most of the old brittle plastic with Carbon Fiber pieces and upgraded the stereo. This year I took of all of the air conditioning parts that I hadn't been using anyways.

I now have all the parts here that are necessary to upgrade the suspension system. All new bushings and a complete Racing beat setup of sway bars and struts and shocks that will lower it 1".

So as you can tell my project it is coming together quite nicely, but I have ever touched the engine. The engine is exactly the reason I bought this car because rotary's fascinate me, but I have never worked on one. I want to purchase all the necessary parts to build an engine for my car, while leaving the current engine in my car. I will build this replacement engine in the shop then swap it in when I'm finished. So I need your help. What should I build?

I want to do all the work myself and take my time doing it so that I can learn as I go. The car will remain Naturally Aspirated, so I want to know what the ideal setup would be for street performance. I will never race the car I just want to cruise around, make noise, and have fun. I would like to remain somewhat moderate on budget and retain my Racing beat exhaust, clutch and transmission. I know the horse won't be anything like a turboed engine, but that's not what I am after. I want a to build it to show quality and just cruise around in it.

Got any ideas?

My5ABaby · 03-21-2011, 01:42 PM

http://www.rotarycarclub.com/rotary_...ead.php?t=3181

That might help. I personally wouldn't go with a bridgeport (or anything bigger) for a street machine/DD, but that's me.

djmtsu · 03-21-2011, 03:35 PM

Half-bridge, ITB's, Megasquirt.

Boom, happy fun time.

RETed · 03-21-2011, 09:19 PM

Moved more appropriately to the 2nd gen section...
You should get a lot more responses there.

-Ted

FC Zach · 03-21-2011, 09:59 PM

What preference, carburetor or EFI?

My5ABaby · 03-22-2011, 07:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FC Zach

What preference, carburetor or EFI?

He said "ideal", so EFI of course.

FC Zach · 03-22-2011, 10:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by My5ABaby

He said "ideal", so EFI of course.

(robert)

aaronoverholser · 03-22-2011, 02:37 PM

I would like to stay EFI, I would much rather adjust the system with a computer or programmer than to have to be fiddling with jets all the time. Which EFI system is best, a custom intake and a standalone or just keep the stock system?

I am wanting to know what type of engine I should look to buy and what components to put on it. Should I find a wrecked RX8 and take the renesis or get a TII 4port motor and port it or get a 6 port like I have and port it? Or should I leave the 6 port as is and just refresh it?

Evil Aviator · 03-27-2011, 04:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aaronoverholser

I would like to stay EFI, I would much rather adjust the system with a computer or programmer than to have to be fiddling with jets all the time. Which EFI system is best, a custom intake and a standalone or just keep the stock system?

All of the standalone EFI units do about the same thing, so just choose one that has local support. You don't want to rely on a long distance phone call to Australia every time you need help, and it is much better to have hands-on help available. The optimal intake would be an aftermarket "Weber IDA" manifold with an aftermarket 2-barrel butterfly-type throttle body. Examples:
http://www.tweakit.net/shop/product_...roducts_id=117
http://www.twminduction.com/Throttle...leBody-FR.html
http://www.twminduction.com/ThrottleBody/carb_vs_fi.pdf

Quote:

Originally Posted by aaronoverholser

I am wanting to know what type of engine I should look to buy and what components to put on it. Should I find a wrecked RX8 and take the renesis or get a TII 4port motor and port it or get a 6 port like I have and port it? Or should I leave the 6 port as is and just refresh it?

That is a debate that will go on long past the time that we all die of old age.

Quote:

Originally Posted by aaronoverholser

Why not a turbo?... maybe I should.

Turbocharging is good for a street rotary because you can gain horsepower and torque without gaining excessive noise. The downside is that you will want to upgrade the drivetrain to TII specs in order to handle that extra torque, and the engine turbo upgrade isn't all that cheap or easy unless you use mostly stock TII parts, although that is also an option. I am not sure if there are still cheap J-Spec TII engines available from Japan after the recent disaster.

My5ABaby · 03-22-2011, 03:06 PM

What's your budget?

diabolical1 · 03-23-2011, 01:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by My5ABaby

What's your budget?

+1

Max777 · 03-22-2011, 05:19 PM

What's the prospect? If you've done this before, my opinion would be different,

aka: 13b-rew converted to N/A, exessive intake manifold, haltech ems. However this will make you run into some challeges like mounting of the engine and etc.

The reason for this is that the rew has some updated stuff, like the TPS, the coil packs are "neat" unlike the FC, it doesnt have the stupid ugly CAS, it's got multi-rib belts instead of the annoying v belts, and it's just a nicer engine all together.

The biggest reason however is that the REW is a 4 port and has bigger intake runners stock than an S5 TII, so you could do quite a nice steet port and be done.

another option would be to do what was suggested before: Individual throttle bodies and a standalone. This keeps your stock engine but deletes a LOT of the finicky stuff that pisses me off to all hell about the n/a FC setup.

Why is there such a strong bias against turbochargers btw? with these engines, it's the best gang bang for the buck.

djmtsu · 03-22-2011, 07:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Max777

The reason for this is that the rew has some updated stuff, like the TPS, the coil packs are "neat" unlike the FC,

You do realize that the FC coils are an upgrade from FD coils right?

Max777 · 03-27-2011, 03:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by djmtsu

You do realize that the FC coils are an upgrade from FD coils right?

(Sarcastic pic edited - was that really necessary? -RETed)

But they dont require you to stretch wiring all over the engine bay, an you can just run the coil wiring with the emissions harness. Besides, you can upgrade them with MSD units or w/e.

As far as watching all the gauges: there should be no reason that you should have to watch all that shit 100%of the time. The gauges are a nice touch for setting up your cooling system, engine tune, and a lot of of other detail things. After the car is built and fully tested, only an occasional glance at the gauges should be necessary because shit happens so fast, you dont have time to look at the gauges anyway.

RETed · 03-28-2011, 04:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Max777

aka: 13b-rew converted to N/A, exessive intake manifold, haltech ems. However this will make you run into some challeges like mounting of the engine and etc.

I really think this is extreme and a waste of money.
13B-REW is running 9.0:1 rotors.
The non-turbo S5 13B already runs higher compression rotors.

If you're going to strip the intake manifolds anyways, get ITB's and savor your top end performance.

Quote:

The reason for this is that the rew has some updated stuff, like the TPS, the coil packs are "neat" unlike the FC, it doesnt have the stupid ugly CAS, it's got multi-rib belts instead of the annoying v belts, and it's just a nicer engine all together.

I don't know why you're arguing stock EFI components when you've already mentioned aftermarket EMS?
That doesn't make any sense.
If you're going to this extreme, most people would opt for almost everything aftermarket anyways - arguing stock parts is a waste of time.

I don't get the hate for the ignition triggers either...
The stock FC CAS is superior, IMNSHO, than the FD igniton trigger wheel.
Both do the same thing, and outside of the physical appearance, both output basically the same signal.
I've seen FD mag pick-up's FAIL; I've never seen an FC CAS fail yet.
The FC CAS is superior cause it's enclosed - no worried about crap being throw at it, as exposed mag pick-up's are susceptible to debris and damage.
(Racers who have run the Electromotive set-up have already proven this.)
So it just sounds like you just don't like the way it "looks"...

Same goes with the belts...

Quote:

The biggest reason however is that the REW is a 4 port and has bigger intake runners stock than an S5 TII, so you could do quite a nice steet port and be done.

Define "bigger"?
The non-turbo 13B 6-port engines run more duration on it's 6-port intake ports.

Quote:

another option would be to do what was suggested before: Individual throttle bodies and a standalone.

*confused*

-Ted

03-21-2011, 01:30 PM	#1
aaronoverholser In search of knowledge. Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Greenville Ohio iTrader: (0) Posts: 14 Rep Power: 0	The ideal Naturally Aspirated Rotary! Hey guys I want your opinions, I have an 86' GXL that has been my project car for the last 6 years. I do a few things to improve it each year and then drive it throughout the summer. It is my toy that i enjoy working on almost as much as driving. This summarizes my car so far so that you know what I am after: The first things I did with the car was just to fix little bugs and get it up and running. I then upgraded the exhaust to a full Racing beat system and deleted the air pump. I replaced the clutch with one near factory standard as far as Horse rating and added a koyo radiator. I have fixed all the imperfections in the body and repainted it the factory dover white. I sanded down my factory GXL aluminum rims until they were smooth and the worked my way up until they shined like new ones. In the interior I have replaced most of the old brittle plastic with Carbon Fiber pieces and upgraded the stereo. This year I took of all of the air conditioning parts that I hadn't been using anyways. I now have all the parts here that are necessary to upgrade the suspension system. All new bushings and a complete Racing beat setup of sway bars and struts and shocks that will lower it 1". So as you can tell my project it is coming together quite nicely, but I have ever touched the engine. The engine is exactly the reason I bought this car because rotary's fascinate me, but I have never worked on one. I want to purchase all the necessary parts to build an engine for my car, while leaving the current engine in my car. I will build this replacement engine in the shop then swap it in when I'm finished. So I need your help. What should I build? I want to do all the work myself and take my time doing it so that I can learn as I go. The car will remain Naturally Aspirated, so I want to know what the ideal setup would be for street performance. I will never race the car I just want to cruise around, make noise, and have fun. I would like to remain somewhat moderate on budget and retain my Racing beat exhaust, clutch and transmission. I know the horse won't be anything like a turboed engine, but that's not what I am after. I want a to build it to show quality and just cruise around in it. Got any ideas? __________________ Zoom Zoom- The only car on the road that is truly something different... the RX7!

03-21-2011, 01:42 PM	#2
My5ABaby Sigh..... Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Murfreesboro, TN iTrader: (6) Posts: 2,377 Rep Power: 19	http://www.rotarycarclub.com/rotary_...ead.php?t=3181 That might help. I personally wouldn't go with a bridgeport (or anything bigger) for a street machine/DD, but that's me. __________________ 1986 Sport: 132k miles, 5A (Sapphire Blue Metallic), Tokico Blues, Racing Beat Springs, Custom LED tailights (only S4 LED tails in the world), SSR Mark II, Racing Beat exhaust, S5 black interior, Rotary Resurrection rebuild at 120k miles Community Service Manual RotorWiki "Imagination costs nothing; we could build square locomotives or fly to Mars" - Felix Wankel Yesterday is history, tomorrow is a mystery, but today is a gift. That is why it is called the "present."

03-21-2011, 03:35 PM	#3
djmtsu My minds tellin' me no... Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Murfreesboro, TN iTrader: (10) Posts: 4,043 Rep Power: 21	Half-bridge, ITB's, Megasquirt. Boom, happy fun time. __________________ 1976 Mazda Cosmo RX-5 1976 Mazda Cosmo RX-5 2003 Toyota Tundra TRD 2015 Toyota 4Runner SR5

03-21-2011, 09:59 PM	#5
FC Zach RCC Loves Me Not You Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Eagleville, TN iTrader: (2) Posts: 2,267 Rep Power: 19	What preference, carburetor or EFI? __________________ 1993 Yamaha GTS1000 1992 Celica Turbo AllTrac 1987 RX7 Sport 1979 Yamaha G1, KM24 powered 1975 Dolmar KMS4

03-22-2011, 02:37 PM	#8
aaronoverholser In search of knowledge. Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Greenville Ohio iTrader: (0) Posts: 14 Rep Power: 0	I would like to stay EFI, I would much rather adjust the system with a computer or programmer than to have to be fiddling with jets all the time. Which EFI system is best, a custom intake and a standalone or just keep the stock system? I am wanting to know what type of engine I should look to buy and what components to put on it. Should I find a wrecked RX8 and take the renesis or get a TII 4port motor and port it or get a 6 port like I have and port it? Or should I leave the 6 port as is and just refresh it? __________________ Zoom Zoom- The only car on the road that is truly something different... the RX7!

03-22-2011, 03:06 PM	#10
My5ABaby Sigh..... Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Murfreesboro, TN iTrader: (6) Posts: 2,377 Rep Power: 19	What's your budget? __________________ 1986 Sport: 132k miles, 5A (Sapphire Blue Metallic), Tokico Blues, Racing Beat Springs, Custom LED tailights (only S4 LED tails in the world), SSR Mark II, Racing Beat exhaust, S5 black interior, Rotary Resurrection rebuild at 120k miles Community Service Manual RotorWiki "Imagination costs nothing; we could build square locomotives or fly to Mars" - Felix Wankel Yesterday is history, tomorrow is a mystery, but today is a gift. That is why it is called the "present."

03-22-2011, 05:19 PM	#12
Max777 Pirate Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Central IL iTrader: (5) Posts: 1,323 Rep Power: 18	What's the prospect? If you've done this before, my opinion would be different, aka: 13b-rew converted to N/A, exessive intake manifold, haltech ems. However this will make you run into some challeges like mounting of the engine and etc. The reason for this is that the rew has some updated stuff, like the TPS, the coil packs are "neat" unlike the FC, it doesnt have the stupid ugly CAS, it's got multi-rib belts instead of the annoying v belts, and it's just a nicer engine all together. The biggest reason however is that the REW is a 4 port and has bigger intake runners stock than an S5 TII, so you could do quite a nice steet port and be done. another option would be to do what was suggested before: Individual throttle bodies and a standalone. This keeps your stock engine but deletes a LOT of the finicky stuff that pisses me off to all hell about the n/a FC setup. Why is there such a strong bias against turbochargers btw? with these engines, it's the best gang bang for the buck. __________________ Rotaries:They are NOT that complicated!