Thoughts on gacchiri braces?

[WE3RX7]

I saw these years ago by a different company on some yahoo jdm auction. Didn't think much of it then, but now I'm kind of wondering, would it be worth it to do this?

I've got my car's front end torn down as I build up the suspension, undercoat, paint, install bushings, brakes, etc... and since I'm pretty much stiffening everything I can, I'm thinking about throwing these on. I came across them again at www.autornd.com:

http://www.autornd.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=7_39_107_818_5043&products_id=8166&osCsid=1ce24c7c168a157a658696e7f4e475a3

What it seems is that it would be similar to extending my roll cage into the engine compartment without having to. These braces would stiffen up the area around the seam welds in the fenders, etc.

Anybody ever use them, think its worth it? I'm thinking it would really round off my front end since I have the MS front underbrace, MS bushings throughout and will be using an engine brace and master cylinder brace too...

[djmtsu]

They make these for Miatas too, they call them Frog Braces or something. They are supposed to work, but I don't know anyone who has used them.

[Max777]

Why not just stich weld the chassis? After buying all the braces n shit, I almost think a used mig welder and some argon might be cheaper...

PS: another thing that will work a hella lot better than that: FC vert front subframe! It has this huge rear brace which I'm 100% positive will work better, and if you can find a junkyard vert, will be cheaper to get as well.

I have a vert btw, and this is one of the things I've been contemplating on putting on the other car if I ever get a coupe shell.

[WE3RX7]

Do you have any pics of the vert subframe that would show that extra brace? I have a feeling my MS bar would basically be the same idea there.

The front clip is already stitch welded fairly well in the inner fenders on the coupe. The only thing would maybe be to had done a continuous bead weld... but no thanks.

I do plan to stitch weld the rest of the chassis where the sheet metal is overlapped and not welded though... there are some areas in the cabin for that.

Braces aren't very expensive either - my main reasoning for this over permanent solutions is if the car gets hit/totaled, I'd be able to hopefully swap parts easily to another chassis easily (if the parts didnt get damaged in the process)....

Thanks for the info so far though, I'll see if any mx-5 guys have frog braces...

[Max777]

Here, this pic shows it quite well, this is after I was done painting my bay:

http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s123/Alpine61/Cars/My%20FC3C/DSCN3291.jpg

Another shot (before paint):

http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s123/Alpine61/Cars/My%20FC3C/IMG_0091.jpg

[WE3RX7]

Very cool - learn something new everyday I guess since I didn't realize the vert was different there.

It wont work for my application though as it is exactly where the lower control arm brace goes across. Its nice to know I'll have something there though now that I see Mazda thought it was a good idea too.

Thanks for pics!

[Whizbang]

there are also sub frame connectors running down under the verts here and there.

[WE3RX7]

Yea - I do plan to add floor braces and such as well. I figure by the time I add all the bracing and my 8pt cage, I should have a very nice and stiff chassis that isnt completely cluttered as it would be w/ a 12pt cage, x-bars, etc....

[firzen]

^ What are the part numbers for these MS braces? I've been thinking of adding some structural support to my car w/ minimal welding for the same reasons as you but haven't heard too much of any braces that Mazdaspeed makes.

[WE3RX7]

I will check tonight. The one MS brace that takes the place of that vert rear subframe brace is the one I have now. MS also makes the upper strut bar and rear strut bar. I havent seen any floorbraces from MS. AutoEXE makes a few too...

I'll get some details on it tonight for ya..

[Max777]

there are also sub frame connectors running down under the verts here and there.

What exaclty do you mean by that? I know that the vert is reinforced like crazy where the rear seats go, and there is also that brace, but apart from that, i havent noticed any other differences.

[JL1RX7]

When you go under the car you see all kinds of stuff. It has runners up and down the frame compared to the coupes.

[firzen]

I will check tonight. The one MS brace that takes the place of that vert rear subframe brace is the one I have now. MS also makes the upper strut bar and rear strut bar. I havent seen any floorbraces from MS. AutoEXE makes a few too...

I'll get some details on it tonight for ya..

Thanks, I'm particularly interested in the one that replaces the vert subframe's additional piece, as I know the vert's subframe doesn't bolt on to the coupe's frame.

For anybody's that's interested on why, there are some good discussions on the other forum about it.

[jgrewe]

What exaclty do you mean by that? I know that the vert is reinforced like crazy where the rear seats go, and there is also that brace, but apart from that, i havent noticed any other differences.

Besides the area where the backseat would be that has the extra bracing there is a lot of extra layers of metal on the door pillar up front. There are 5 layers of stamped steel in the door hinge area that curve up to the strut horns instead of just 3 on the coupe.

The steel used for the rockers(inside,outside and vertical piece in between) are all easliy twice as thick. The floor pan steel is also much thicker.

The extra subframe requires some mounting points to be taken from a 'vert. There are a couple thick steel extensions that fill the space to the "frame rail" as it kicks up for the suspension subframe.

[Phoenix7]

never met anyone who had them...wanna be the first?

THe vert always gets shit but I honestly think it's the best FC out there.

rigidity difference between the vert and the coupe is a mere 1% with the top up. THe extra weight for a roofless well-handling car is nothing...turbo swap it and you're golden.

People complain that it's heavy and slow but it IS the coolest FC built.

[Max777]

Hmm, I didn't know about all the thicker metal, because I only spotted the mentioned differences from a million pics of the coupe I have, :D Maybe the thicker metal is the reason that my pinch welds held up so well compared to my friends S4 on which the floor caved in a little bit, lol. Thanks for the in depth comparion.

And yes, I used to think that the coupe is cooler, but the FC3C really IS the cooler car, especially with a turbo with good suspension.

I want to turbo swap mine, but being a senior in High School, and making min wage, it's kinda tough, haha.

[WE3RX7]

I forgot to snag that MS part #..

I'll get it when I get back this weekend from my buddy's wedding.

Here are some pics of it though....

[JL1RX7]

Now the question would be is that brace better than the vert one? Might a good idea to switch over to get some weight out of the vert. If it is a bolt on type thing.

[Max777]

well, the vert add on DOES get annoying when trying to work on the car, because it's non removable, so that sounds like a good idea, however, I am not sure if the MS brace delivers the same amount of reinforcement as the stock piece.

[WE3RX7]

I would actually venture to say it probably adds more. Its mounting locations are precisely located on the control arms where needed and the aluminum/steel is solid opposed to stamped like the subframe.

I have no real proof - but I would guess its better or at least the same....

[WE3RX7]

Somewhat bringing this back from the dead.

There was a question I think about the MS Brace that replaces the need for the vert subframe on a coupe...

I am finally getting around to putting stuff ON my car instead of taking it all off.

Here are some shots of the MS lower subframe brace...


The bracket mounts in place of stock control arm D-brackets:
http://www.findtuners.com/FCProject/mslowerbrace_installed3.jpg

Angle from the rear, you can see the MS stamp (its polished so dont let the pics misguide you - I just didnt rub it off before snapping the pic):
http://www.findtuners.com/FCProject/mslowerbrace_installed2.jpg

Top shot, you can see it would go right where the vert subframe has the extra bracing:
http://www.findtuners.com/FCProject/mslowerbrace_installed1.jpg

[Max777]

vert subframe= cheap and sure way, provided you can get one fro ma junkyard or w/e.

That= might not be as stiff, but a lot better because you can remove it.

[WE3RX7]

I dont think swapping a vert subframe is a good idea for coupe guys though. After more research its not a direct bolt up due to the exhaust has to be routed a little different as well...

I would say though, the MS bar is stiffer than the vert subframe. Its not stamped steel for one and is a straight shot instead of the angled approach the vert frame uses...

Also, the MS bar weighs less, which is very important for me :)

just my two cents though...

[firzen]

I'll refund your 2 cents for the part number... ;)

[Max777]

If that brace is actually stiffer, then that's really good. As far as exhaust, I know that the RB header clears the rear part, and I'm guessing all the turbo swap guys dont have issues as well, which leaves the stock N/A exhaut manifold.

I am not sure if the stock N/A manifold and the two cats are different part numbers in the OEM catalog, but i see no reason that they would make two versions of that shit, it's easier to make the brace fit around the exhaust instead.

The ONLY exhaust part that I know of that does not fit the vert is the pacesetter monza header, and I'm not even sure on that.

PS: If i am wrong, feel free to correct any misinformation.

[WE3RX7]

I cant correct any misinfo since I'm not entirely sure about the exhaust since I've never done the vert subframe swap. Just from what others have said, lol.. I guess its all heresay...

Its def lighter and looks better though :)

As for the part number, the receipt I have is in Japanese. A few years ago you could get them from any importer, but I just looked and dont see any on google, etc... I know it was a limited production part. Each one is numbered individual (as are many MS parts).. glad i picked it up when I did, lol.