Looking for PFC base map for ID 1000/2000

[Mitchocalypse]

Just want to see what happens when I hook a PFC up to my car as a lot of people have suggested.

I'm looking for a base map supporting ID1000 pri and 2000 sec. It has AEM 3.5 bar map sensor.

Not looking to boost, just to get it driving. ATM it won't rev past 2k rpm. thanks for the help guys!

[chibikougan]

Just want to see what happens when I hook a PFC up to my car as a lot of people have suggested.

I'm looking for a base map supporting ID1000 pri and 2000 sec. It has AEM 3.5 bar map sensor.

Not looking to boost, just to get it driving. ATM it won't rev past 2k rpm. thanks for the help guys!

PM Rice

[RICE RACING]

you need to stop listening to random shitcunts.

define the problem and find its cause:

Is the crank signal dropping out dur FFE shit set up? scope this
If ok is the fueling correct for your ported motor? v's the stock calibration?
This is not that hard.

You will just waste time with another ECU, and a pfc does not run 1000cc inj well anyway. I do have a map I can send you but it will have mollested primary lag time so itca work @idle due to the pfc min injector limit restrictions.

[Mitchocalypse]

The only problem i'm having it that it won't rev past 2k rpm. Both rotors are firing and seems to be working fine.. until 2k.

For the amount of effort it takes to hook up a pfc just to see what happens, i don't think its a waste of time.

At idle the AFR is right around 11 +/- a little bit. Looking at the tune, that is right where the target AFR is in those cells so i really don't know what to make of everything.

[RICE RACING]

The only problem i'm having it that it won't rev past 2k rpm. Both rotors are firing and seems to be working fine.. until 2k.

For the amount of effort it takes to hook up a pfc just to see what happens, i don't think its a waste of time.

At idle the AFR is right around 11 +/- a little bit. Looking at the tune, that is right where the target AFR is in those cells so i really don't know what to make of everything.


It sounds like your trigger signal is dropping out as the thresholds are optimized for the stock set up, hard to diagnose from here.

I will do up a file on the PFC for 3.5 bar sensor and ID1000 primary so you can test it, will send through tonight my time. I have a fully done and verified map for 550cc and 2200cc set up (which works perfectly on PFC platform), but to save you changing injectors I'll just molest some figures so you can run a test to validate your theory.

[Mitchocalypse]

It sounds like your trigger signal is dropping out as the thresholds are optimized for the stock set up, hard to diagnose from here.

I will do up a file on the PFC for 3.5 bar sensor and ID1000 primary so you can test it, will send through tonight my time. I have a fully done and verified map for 550cc and 2200cc set up (which works perfectly on PFC platform), but to save you changing injectors I'll just molest some figures so you can run a test to validate your theory.

Okay thanks for that.

And what do you mean the triggers are optimized for stock setup.. Like stock ports or do you mean the FFE bracket thing? Cause the crank sensors are exactly the same location as factory it's just a dress uppy thing.

[Mitchocalypse]

hard to diagnose from here.

And yes I completely understand this especially given that you are strictly helping based off of information I'm relaying to you over the internet. I'm sure it would be a completely different story if you could just take a look in person for an hour or two so yes I definitely really appreciate your help


:fawk:

[RICE RACING]

http://fullfunctioneng.com/product/trigger-kit-fd/ POST a pic of what you run? cause I have no idea why or what you have of you saying its still using the stock 12+1 Ne and G sensor set up with just are you using a 36-2 wheel set up like above?

If its totally stock if you have changed the GAP to the stock timing wheel this will change the voltage the ECU sees, and the trigger thresholds could be too high and thus your signals could be dropping out and hence not going over 2k rpm if all else checks out ok.

[Mitchocalypse]

Ah no, not the whole fancy trigger setup just this one bracket:

http://fullfunctioneng.com/product/oem-trigger-bracket/

I'm quite sure I checked the gap as well. FSM says between 1 and 2 mm or something like that and it's right there. Wouldn't hurt to check again though next weekend.

[TitaniumTT]

What ECU are you running?

you need to stop listening to random shitcunts.

Fucking that.....

define the problem and find its cause:

Is the crank signal dropping out dur FFE shit set up? scope this
If ok is the fueling correct for your ported motor? v's the stock calibration?
This is not that hard.

When I saw the vid.... it's extremely hard to hear over a cell phone vid, then uploaded, then through my shitty laptop speakers, but I heard the timing fucking up.... could be totally wrong because I'm not actually there.... but that's what I heard....

You will just waste time with another ECU, and a pfc does not run 1000cc inj well anyway. I do have a map I can send you but it will have mollested primary lag time so itca work @idle due to the pfc min injector limit restrictions.

Fucking PFC's..... I tuned that exact setup and had to lower the fuel pressure in order to raise the duty cycle of the primaries to get it to work kinda sorta right.....

The only problem i'm having it that it won't rev past 2k rpm. Both rotors are firing and seems to be working fine.. until 2k.

Seen that many times actually... the air gap can fuck things up pretty well. Even a slight bend in the factory trigger wheel will fuck it all up.

Something else I saw on a PFC equipped shitbox was a single pin, the Ne signal, on the ecu got twisted. So when the connector was inserted the female socket on the connector got bent and really weak. Scoped it from the backside of the connector and everything looked fine so I kept on troubleshooting the bitch.... took a while to figure that one out and it was actually Dave that found it. Car would run fine until about 4k on the dyno then it would just start to skip and miss and not go past that point. So while the sensors were reporting correctly, the connection to the ECU was fragged and thus the ecu not seeing what it needed to...

For the amount of effort it takes to hook up a pfc just to see what happens, i don't think its a waste of time.

If all else fails....

At idle the AFR is right around 11 +/- a little bit. Looking at the tune, that is right where the target AFR is in those cells so i really don't know what to make of everything.

That is way to fat. I tend to idle the PFC cars between .85-.88L (12.5-13)... my personal car is around .88-.91(13-13.4) depending on temp. So if you're idling at that fat @ .75L it could be dropping way below .7 or even .66L and just blowing the spark out. This will read a false lean on the wideband.

What ignition system are you running, dwell time, what plugs, have you pulled the plugs?

http://fullfunctioneng.com/product/trigger-kit-fd/ POST a pic of what you run? cause I have no idea why or what you have of you saying its still using the stock 12+1 Ne and G sensor set up with just are you using a 36-2 wheel set up like above?

If its totally stock if you have changed the GAP to the stock timing wheel this will change the voltage the ECU sees, and the trigger thresholds could be too high and thus your signals could be dropping out and hence not going over 2k rpm if all else checks out ok.

I think you're on the right track with the signal dropping out, or not being setup properly in the ECU.....

Ah no, not the whole fancy trigger setup just this one bracket:

http://fullfunctioneng.com/product/oem-trigger-bracket/

I'm quite sure I checked the gap as well. FSM says between 1 and 2 mm or something like that and it's right there. Wouldn't hurt to check again though next weekend.

I would check it again and pull the wheel off and make sure that it's straight and true... I had a bent wheel that was doing all sorts of fucked up shit...

[Mitchocalypse]

What ECU are you running?



Fucking that.....



When I saw the vid.... it's extremely hard to hear over a cell phone vid, then uploaded, then through my shitty laptop speakers, but I heard the timing fucking up.... could be totally wrong because I'm not actually there.... but that's what I heard....



Fucking PFC's..... I tuned that exact setup and had to lower the fuel pressure in order to raise the duty cycle of the primaries to get it to work kinda sorta right.....



Seen that many times actually... the air gap can fuck things up pretty well. Even a slight bend in the factory trigger wheel will fuck it all up.

Something else I saw on a PFC equipped shitbox was a single pin, the Ne signal, on the ecu got twisted. So when the connector was inserted the female socket on the connector got bent and really weak. Scoped it from the backside of the connector and everything looked fine so I kept on troubleshooting the bitch.... took a while to figure that one out and it was actually Dave that found it. Car would run fine until about 4k on the dyno then it would just start to skip and miss and not go past that point. So while the sensors were reporting correctly, the connection to the ECU was fragged and thus the ecu not seeing what it needed to...



If all else fails....



That is way to fat. I tend to idle the PFC cars between .85-.88L (12.5-13)... my personal car is around .88-.91(13-13.4) depending on temp. So if you're idling at that fat @ .75L it could be dropping way below .7 or even .66L and just blowing the spark out. This will read a false lean on the wideband.

What ignition system are you running, dwell time, what plugs, have you pulled the plugs?



I think you're on the right track with the signal dropping out, or not being setup properly in the ECU.....



I would check it again and pull the wheel off and make sure that it's straight and true... I had a bent wheel that was doing all sorts of fucked up shit...

Ecu is the link that rice had in the SP

The video you saw was really dumpy and not even running on 2 rotors. Did some fixing up and now at least both rotors are firing. This is a better vid:
BtAO5_bKhkU

Still will be iphone quality though lol

I'll check the wheel to make sure but I can't see there bein an issue there. It was pulled working fine and sat flat on a shelf for a year an a half. To check it what do I do just lay it on a flat surface or what?

I have no knowledge whatsoever of tuning. I just see the crosshairs on the PC interface for the ecu in a certain target AFR cell an cross reference that with my wideband.. They are right around the same? At that point I assume it's all okay but I guess that isn't really a good assumption.

Ignition is just the HKS unit and newer FD coils. Plugs are just the bur9eqp for now until the engine is broken in

I've pulled them a few times - what specifically did you want to know?

To check the crank signal pins are intact I should just pull them out?
Now that I think about it one thin I should have done is hook the ecu up to a computer just to see if it's actually cutting fuel or ignition. Kind of hard to tell what's going on when the only thing you know is that it doesn't run

[TitaniumTT]

Ecu is the link that rice had in the SP

Than it should be ok ESPECIALLY if it still has the same cal file on it.

What's your base FPSI?

The video you saw was really dumpy and not even running on 2 rotors. Did some fixing up and now at least both rotors are firing. This is a better vid:
YOUTUBE]

Still will be iphone quality though lol

:lol: Doesn't tell much without it being revv'ed to where it's fucking up.

I'll check the wheel to make sure but I can't see there bein an issue there. It was pulled working fine and sat flat on a shelf for a year an a half. To check it what do I do just lay it on a flat surface or what?

Or just rotate it and check the gap at each tooth.

Better would be to get an o-scope on the pins at the ECU and make sure it's getting a clean signal. FD harnesses aren't known for their robustness and something could've broken when the removed/installed. Or the sensors themselves are FUBAR.

I have no knowledge whatsoever of tuning. I just see the crosshairs on the PC interface for the ecu in a certain target AFR cell an cross reference that with my wideband.. They are right around the same? At that point I assume it's all okay but I guess that isn't really a good assumption.

Yeah.... 11's is just way to fucking fat and it may just be a tuning issue. If the ECU still has Peters map on it and it's not a setup, fuel/ignition cut, sensor/harness thing, you can try turning down the base FPSI until it's idling around .12.5-13:1 when at operating temp and then try revving it to see what happens. Changing the base FPSI will alter the entire "tune" without altering it... if that makes sense.

Well... what are the AFR's when it's stuttering @ 2k?

Ignition is just the HKS unit and newer FD coils. Plugs are just the bur9eqp for now until the engine is broken in

So not that powerful ;)

I've pulled them a few times - what specifically did you want to know?

How wet are they?

To check the crank signal pins are intact I should just pull them out?

You don't have to de-pin them, just look at them. You can also check the resistance between the ECU and the sensor pins, check the shielding, check the sensors.

Now that I think about it one thin I should have done is hook the ecu up to a computer just to see if it's actually cutting fuel or ignition. Kind of hard to tell what's going on when the only thing you know is that it doesn't run

:rofl: Truff....

[Mitchocalypse]

Than it should be ok ESPECIALLY if it still has the same cal file on it.

What's your base FPSI?



:lol: Doesn't tell much without it being revv'ed to where it's fucking up.



Or just rotate it and check the gap at each tooth.

Better would be to get an o-scope on the pins at the ECU and make sure it's getting a clean signal. FD harnesses aren't known for their robustness and something could've broken when the removed/installed. Or the sensors themselves are FUBAR.



Yeah.... 11's is just way to fucking fat and it may just be a tuning issue. If the ECU still has Peters map on it and it's not a setup, fuel/ignition cut, sensor/harness thing, you can try turning down the base FPSI until it's idling around .12.5-13:1 when at operating temp and then try revving it to see what happens. Changing the base FPSI will alter the entire "tune" without altering it... if that makes sense.

Well... what are the AFR's when it's stuttering @ 2k?



So not that powerful ;)



How wet are they?



You don't have to de-pin them, just look at them. You can also check the resistance between the ECU and the sensor pins, check the shielding, check the sensors.



:rofl: Truff....

Base fuel pressure is 43 psi but can easily change it

I'll get another video revving it on Friday so you can see. That is if the power fc doesn't magically make it work

I know you say 11 is too fat - I believe you, don't worry, but that is the target AFR according to the map so I don't know what to tell you there

I'm not sure the *exact* AFR when it starts cutting out but basically it revs normal, hits 2k, and you can hear there is absolutely no firing, the momentum the engine has caries the rpm up to about 2500 but you can hear it audibly cut out at about 2k, like there is nothing going on past there. So the AFR past 2k basically maxes out my meter at like 19+ cause it's just pumping a bunch I air through the engine at that point.

I'll upgrade ignition later cut a guy a break

Whenever I pulled them it was running on 1 rotor, so I'd sometimes have to pull them to deflood so .. Quite wet. Since it's been firing on 2 rotors I haven't really pulled them. All I an tell you is that I have idled the car for right around 15 seconds, killed it, and cranked it right back over and it starts no problem. Does the lack of flooding tell you anything you might want to know?

Like I know you're suggesting that there's too much fuel but is that something that could cause the 2k thing or is that another issue in itself? I think I need to just see if the ecu is cutting fuel or spark as a first step

I will check all that, I do remember testing the sensors as per FSM and they were right in spec.

BTW, I'm not able to do anything on the car during the week so that's why I can't just give you straight up answers on a lot of this. Gotta wait till Friday

[TitaniumTT]

What ecu is it and what is this target Afr table?
Longer reply when not on phone

[TitaniumTT]

Read whole post before proceeding nest time with the car...

As Peter said, you've got to troubleshoot it first before proceeding. It could be a variety of things ranging from some shitty trigger signals to poor tuning, horribly setup ECU parameters etc etc etc.....

If it's Peters old link ecu and still has the same cal file on it, if he was running the same ID1000/2000 setup than the cal file likely isn't to blame. If it's been changed then all bets are off. And what I would do is first scope it and make sure it's getting a clean trigger signal. I don't know Links well enough to know if they've got a counter like the older helltechs but if it does, it would be a perfect 12:1 ratio. If it isn't, than it's getting some funky trigger signals.


Base fuel pressure is 43 psi but can easily change it

You may need to.... you may want to trim the pressure back until it's idling in the high 12's and then try revving it.... although I would change the plugs first to brandy new ones.


I'll get another video revving it on Friday so you can see. That is if the power fc doesn't magically make it work

:rofl: PFC's generally make things run worse :lol:

I know you say 11 is too fat - I believe you, don't worry, but that is the target AFR according to the map so I don't know what to tell you there

Turn the closed loop off if you can and see what happens...

I'm not sure the *exact* AFR when it starts cutting out but basically it revs normal, hits 2k, and you can hear there is absolutely no firing, the momentum the engine has caries the rpm up to about 2500 but you can hear it audibly cut out at about 2k, like there is nothing going on past there. So the AFR past 2k basically maxes out my meter at like 19+ cause it's just pumping a bunch I air through the engine at that point.

Well, the same thing can happen if it's way too rich to fire. Doesn't matter how much fuel is in there if it's not getting lit it's just going to pump air as well.... hence my earlier comment about a false lean reading

I'll upgrade ignition later cut a guy a break

:rofl:

Whenever I pulled them it was running on 1 rotor, so I'd sometimes have to pull them to deflood so .. Quite wet. Since it's been firing on 2 rotors I haven't really pulled them. All I an tell you is that I have idled the car for right around 15 seconds, killed it, and cranked it right back over and it starts no problem. Does the lack of flooding tell you anything you might want to know?

Once the plugs wet foul once, they're general garbage unless you've got a really badass media cleaner.

Like I know you're suggesting that there's too much fuel but is that something that could cause the 2k thing or is that another issue in itself? I think I need to just see if the ecu is cutting fuel or spark as a first step

I agree, and also that the ecu is getting a clean trigger signal.
After that it could just be the plugs are shit and there's too much fuel and it's cutting out.... could be as simple as that. I had an issue a month ago where my car wouldn't idle... it would start just fine but as it would idle down it would keep dropping and just die. I thought maybe the TPS was out of whack, a whole bunch of things and it turned out to be nothing more than shitty plugs... same bur9eq's but a year old...


I will check all that, I do remember testing the sensors as per FSM and they were right in spec.

BTW, I'm not able to do anything on the car during the week so that's why I can't just give you straight up answers on a lot of this. Gotta wait till Friday

Gotcha

[Mitchocalypse]

Okay I will try to address every point you made tomorrow.

However if that doesn't get things working I'm still gonna want to hookup a pfc just for shits and giggles. Speaking of which - any progress on the base map peter?

About plugs being garbage after they foul though.. I hate being the guy who is asking for help, gets it and then proceeds to throw it back in your face but I don't think the plugs are a problem. Reason being, the "failure" point is just too consistent. Even with garbage plugs, I would expect the odd fire once it's past 2k, but there is absolutely nothing. And the fact that it cuts out at the exact same time every time just makes a "partial" plug failure seem unlikely. It's too synced. I say partial because they obviously still work fine below 2k so..

But thank you!
I at least have some trouble shooting ideas now.

[TitaniumTT]

If your cal is setup in such a way that at 2k it goes pig fuck rich everytime @ 2k, than everytime you go to 2k it's going to miss and not fire....

I had a car with a wolf :puke: that everytime you would get to about 3k it would cut out. Give it a little more throttle and it would come back to life.... floor it and it would stumble but rev.... found out that he had the secondaries wired to the primary circuit... so give it a little throttle and there would be enough vac to pull the fuel down the runners. crack the throttle and there wouldn't be enough vac to pull the fuel out of the secondaries because the primaries had all the airflow. Crack the secondary butterflies and viola, enough airflow through the sec runners to get the fuel into the chamber. I thought it was a tuning issue until I realized that everytime the secondary throttle cracked it would come to life....
point being it wasn't a tuning issue but a mechanical issue, yet it was always repeatable.

Seen the same with tuning issues because of fucked comps or just about anything else..... it's usually going to be repeatable regardless of the issue at hand.

Needs moar data.... make sure ecu isn't cutting something, make sure ecu has good signal at that point, make sure plugs are good, tune to 12.5-13 @ idle by adjusting base fpsi, rev it up see what happens.

Also.... make sure the thing is up to operating temp before trying to rev....

[Mitchocalypse]

LOL

http://i653.photobucket.com/albums/uu256/mitchocalypse/OMPWarning_zpsb1d85b5a.png (http://s653.photobucket.com/user/mitchocalypse/media/OMPWarning_zpsb1d85b5a.png.html)

[chibikougan]

OMP limp mode?


Also your hot bod is on display might wanna limit the photo sharing....


Or was that on purpose? :naughty:


I like the interface for the link...

[Prodigy]

LOL


Derp...



lol

Im really hoping this fixes your issue...


J.

[Mitchocalypse]

OMP limp mode?


Also your hot bod is on display might wanna limit the photo sharing....


Or was that on purpose? :naughty:


I like the interface for the link...

Oh fuck off lol. I'm so tech-retarded i don't have any special folders or anything on photobucket and 0 organization everything just gets put in the same place. when the pic is hyperlinked directly to the page i never really expect people to go through all my pics. But just for you i cleaned it up a bit. Theres probably worse like dick pics and all if you really wanted to do some digging :lol:

And yeah its omp related im guessing. only thing.. it says in the bottom that rpm is limited to 4500 rpm but cutting closer to 2000. It does overshoot to closer to 3 so it might cut earlier than 4500 just so it doesn't overshoot past that but who knows. This is obviously a problem and hopefully the big culprit im looking for.

I agree the interface once you got used to it would be pretty nice though. THeres a learning curve for everything though, it usually takes me a few mins to find where what i want to be displayed is but for sure once you're familiar with it its a clean layout.

[Mitchocalypse]

Im really hoping this fixes your issue...


Likewise. It will fix something but i'm hoping it fixes everything

[chibikougan]

Haha it was the 2nd pic on the scroll through. Not complaining about man meat :naughty:


I do believe rice still runs a mech OMP so it makes sense.

[RICE RACING]

I have sent instruction of software changes needed, touch wood no more limiting!!! :)

[Mitchocalypse]

I'm going to be the first to say though.. Let's assume that this does in fact fix the problem - a PFC would have made it work :p

[Prodigy]

touch wood


now you got Mitch all hot & bothered...

lol


J.