NA 6 port half bridge build (zenki FC)

[Tougemonster]

Hello all.. so my original motor blew a coolant seal in winter storage (-45 below @ 96,xxx) a few years ago.Im second owner bought with 70,002 miles with all records including all oil changes, gas fill ups, you name it. Even got the window sticker and dealership brochures.Chassis is tip top.A friend of mine gave me a new(used) motor. It lasted 800 miles some how... seized on start up.

This is my only pic of it now(My gf doesnt know how to work buttons)
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v290/mr.vash/116_0223.jpg

This is how its suppose to be (exept this is an SE)
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v290/mr.vash/IMG_0179.jpg

So now i have started a rebuild on the stock engine(I think she got mad at me for tossin in a used motor).

I should be able to re use the hard seals. But im not sure about 3 piece seals on a half bridge. Any insight? Im not sure they are even 3 piece but i am assuming so because its an S4

Im trying to run a stock ECU as judge ito has done it and I have seen how fast it was(RIP)(youtube)
To my knowledge he ran stock primary inj @460cc and S4 turbo secondary@ 550cc

I have found no more info as of yet, I PM'd him tho

Mods so far i have done 20k miles on this setup to try to learn chassis dynamics and polar movement at the limit of grip with low power
Tein drift spec coil overs 8kg front 6 kg rear (too stiff)
AWR chromoly lateral rods
AWR rear control arm spherical bearing
AWR camber links (didnt break :0)
Racing Beat DTSS eliminators
Poly bush A arms
Racing beat sway bar end links
AC/PS/smog delete (finding elec pw steering pump)
CAI off a ford diesel (still not enough airflow)
Hawk Hps+ pads (suck)
Short shifter
S5 tranny
S5 tails

Stuff im adding while i build(Already have, or free ish)
I have a full stainless dual roadrace setup im running paralell for about 113-118 inches( not sure how to tune this yet)
Mazdatrix heim joint endlinks
Mazdartix bumpsteer/angle tie rod ends
Tanabe Sustec strut bar
Stich weld
Chassis/engine harness diet
Sound deadening removal (keeping ugly maroon interior cus it makes my tornado grey silver look PIMP)
S5 bumpers and trim(keepin it black)
Shimmed LSD


Stuff Im adding later
Adjustable sway bars
Heim joint ball joints
Full cage and Huge diet
Fuel cell and auxiliaries to support
Urithane stiffening foam
NA Rtek?
Gilmer belt drive
Crown Vics
Downforce?
80s Boatflake gunmetal paint?

K so enough of all that, gettin down to business.
Can i use stock ECU and 3 piece seals?
Would switching the direction of a worn in apex seal with corner piece towards the center iron mess stuff up because it was bedded in rotating the opposite direction?

And finally does longer piping (118") boost low end or high RPM? Or shorter (113")
Im shooting for a Helmholtz resonance effect at around 5500 rpm
Anything else? AFM mods?

[Tougemonster]

Mainly im asking about 3 piece seals in a half bridge and stock ECU running it? Now you dont need to read the whole post?

[reddozen]

I would have to agree.. stock ecu and 3 piece apex seals sound like a disaster for any kind of bridge port...

[Tougemonster]

Yeah ive already been talked out of 3 piece seals. Im still wondering about rtek 2.0 for NA tho. But then i still have to use the afm which is a restriction. Or i could use a RB weber dellorto uim. It fits on a stock 6port lim. But i really dont wanna go carby

[RETed]

Stock ECU is too much of a restriction.
In fact, the stock intake manifolds are a restriction.
If you really want the BP to breathe, you need to redo the whole intake manifold, period.
This is why a lot of the BP's go carbs with some kinda aftermarket intake manifold.
Expensive is FI + ITB's.
This is not a cheap project by any means if you want to extract all the power potential of the set-up.
For the money you end up spending, you could be making a lot of power with a turbo set-up...


-Ted

[Tougemonster]

Bummer.. looks like I might have to give up the brap and just clean the ports up the bit.
I'll try to get a S4 turbo 4 port and full bridge that and leave the 6 port be for now.
I do have two 6 ports, so I could put the new parts on stock or pineapple street port. Then half bridge the spare, throw it in and try to dyno tune with Rtek, see what happens.
Id like to experiment with 6 ports as they are cheap to free, and easy to find.

And thanks for the input guys. I know i dont have many posts here, I spent alot of the time on the "other forum" I've had my FC for about 10 years now, had a couple AE86's and a RA65 before that. Not quite a noob, so thanks for not being harsh, I'll always be learning and will never quit asking questions

[N.RotaryTech]

So I was trying to figure out if I should post my experience with this. I believe that not many have done what I have done. So I figured that maybe my fluke of an experience with this might not be practical. But since you mentioned that you have another motor, Yes! You should bridge-port it.

Ok enough of me sounding like a pompous ass.

I should find where I posted this info before.
Since I don't feel like going through it again Ill provide cliff notes.

This is what I did:
Half Bridge Port S4 Motor.
Stock S5 ECU.
550cc primary injectors (S4 turbo injectors), Stock secondaries (460cc)
Lots of tweaking the Throttle Body.
Got it Running!
Really Fun to Drive.
Coolant seal failure as thousand miles later. (My fault with rebuild.)

Ill dig up more info on this later.

Or you can just search my posts.

Later.

[Tougemonster]

I watched you vids and build up post.I'm going which much smaller bridge and unblended into secondary 5th and 6 ports.
Keepin the bridge on the secondary seems like its going to be alot easier time it.

Im going to use a pineapple street port for the primaries and aux ports,
I'll use the template to extend the secondary at the bottom, but not towards the housing, cus i need space for the bridge.

And you should try switching your 550s on your secondaries instead of primaries since you have huge port that most likely get more air, hence need more fuel. Just a theory, makes more sense in my head anyways.

This is how Judge Ito set his up, and Im going to try the same way

Do you have an AFR gauge or anyway to tune fuel?

[88turboii]

i helped him "tune" it on stock ecu.. it wouldnt idle with factory 460's, b/p need a ton more fuel. with 550's it idled nicely around 13.5 AFR. it was just a pain to start as it would flood out without a fuel cut switch

imo going turbo is better than porting

[Tougemonster]

Well hopefully with smaller ports and no aux bridge I can get it to idle on 460's
I only need it to work to drive to another shop to park for the winter, then ill install some type of standalone. I still have to find out who can tune what here in Montana

[Tougemonster]

So i kinda jus did my own thing cus everyone told me it wouldnt work well
I made a template using the pineapple large streetport for a 6 port
the template has a 32mm bridge on the secondaries only,its chamfered to about 34mm
the bridge is 5.5mm wide and the port goes to 1.5mm from the coolant seal and the housings are notched to match
Im still on a stock ECU i went with rebuilt injectors and used 550cc/min secondaries
I used cnc'd atkins aux port sleeves and just leave em open for now
all the intake runners were smoothed of casting crap TB was ported
I posted most of my buildup on the other forum.
http://www.rx7club.com/build-threads-294/na-6-port-half-bridge-build-zenki-fc-1009424/

http://youtu.be/JcGz6iHgXb0

[N.RotaryTech]

Congratulations!
I took a look at your thread.
Sounds good.
That speed run was sick. I didn't know na fc's could reach 100mph Uphill! :lol:
Have fun with it.

:biggthumpup:

[diabolical1]

impressive, sir.

[Tougemonster]

hah thanks guys. wasnt really a speed run though.
I wont really know what it can do till i adjust the throttle body so it opens all the way.
500 more miles to go

[chibikougan]

Proud..

My car is getting more holes in it.

Damnit I think I am the only one without my car going again!! Well except Granpa. He does have it towed over by his house finally though. I should see if he wants me to take his Rotary parts out for him.

I don't have my AFR meter anymore either. Someone over there has a dyno

One on Higgins http://www.usdieselparts.com/

Also dynojets in billings,bozeman, and big sky

[Tougemonster]

I dont think Rhett's run yet. But its built by BDC so its prolly going to explode in his garage
I tried gettin some stuff from grampa as he said i could have the engine once. But now he says hes gonna rebuild it
oh well.
Im gettin a busted turbo tranny from Rhett and rebuilding it, still need a rear tho

Ill check into those dyno shops I might have it broken in by January maybe
I didnt think we had one here. i never see anything besides stock cars runnnin around here
Its strange, no fart cannons everywhere, an no black smoke belching d bags tryin to run me off the road
you should move here, we'd have the two loudest cars in town.

[GySgtFrank]

Also dynojets in billings,bozeman, and big sky

Big Sky? Really? What are they doing, building Hot Rod trail groomers? I didn't think anyone actually lived there full time. Just 10 million dollar ski cabins used one week out of the year. ;)

[Tougemonster]

I know plenty of people that live there full time.
were the ones that keep the rich assholes fat and happy
Tons of crazy mtn passes to drive,mountains to climb
I lived in a gypsy ski colony last winter. at 7000 ft ..its rad
and yes.. there are hot rod trail groomers
and this... it climbs to over 8000ft and its scary rad
http://www.peakhappenings.com/wp-content/gallery/sept-gazette-2011/beartoothhwy01.jpg

[GySgtFrank]

I know plenty of people that live there full time.
were the ones that keep the rich assholes fat and happy
Tons of crazy mtn passes to drive,mountains to climb
I lived in a gypsy ski colony last winter. at 7000 ft ..its rad
and yes.. there are hot rod trail groomers
and this... it climbs to over 8000ft and its scary rad

:lol: ;) Just giving you a hard time. I had been doing work there since Chrysler owned it and everything was sliding into the creek, moved a few years ago. Seriously, I was surprised that someone had a Dyno there. I wouldn't have thought there would be enough business there to support one, frankly I'm surprised Bozeman even has one. :suspect:

[Tougemonster]

Well ya gotta figure the diesel guys need em so they can pass out dyno sheets to their buddies when they hang out in parking lots and brag about how small their dicks are.
And when my fat drunk neighbor gets hes brand new 3/4 ton trucknuts stuck in the drive way i pull him out with a stock subaru wagon

[chibikougan]

:lol: ;) Just giving you a hard time. I had been doing work there since Chrysler owned it and everything was sliding into the creek, moved a few years ago. Seriously, I was surprised that someone had a Dyno there. I wouldn't have thought there would be enough business there to support one, frankly I'm surprised Bozeman even has one. :suspect:



Haha quitter...:toetap05:


They will all most likely end up being 4 rear wheel rollers for semi trucks. Haha

[Tougemonster]

Well its broken in, runs great
I'm saving up for a miata tranny gear swap,some RB mufflers.. and a new clutch apparently.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/t3dsRzWDr0Y?rel=0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
http://youtu.be/t3dsRzWDr0Y

I'd like to be abit quieter and not so raspy. I guess it kinda barks more than rasps.
I dunno, all I know as that its soo loud that it makes dear fall over. :reddevil:

Any ideas for a good sprung hub clutch?
I had been using a stage 1 centerforce, never really liked it from the get go
Im looking at getting a light weight fly wheel as well. Racing Beat for both?

[chibikougan]

ACT or Spec I think are your best bets without spending to much. Also I think at this point the car will just Cobra Kai sweep the leg on the deer anyway with minimal damage to the car.

[Tougemonster]

Hah I'm goin lower too....hellaflush
cuz I <3 Haters

I guess I need to decide on a trans first
Either miata gears in a NA case = close ratios and double ring syncros
Or TII case with rebuild innards = wont break, easier to get flywheels

[diabolical1]

ultimately your tranny choice will depend on how you plan to drive the car.

[Tougemonster]

Kinda depends on power too
I want about 300 ish to the wheels. But i dont want the long winded gears from the stock tranny.
Id like to eventually use a RX8 tranny, can they handle 300 at the wheels?
But ill prolly go for a modded NA tranny
I doubt Ill have any kind of power any time soon, and it gonna take alot of fab to get a RX8 tranny in there. oh well
Prolly should get my blinkers and logicon workin first eh

[diabolical1]

Kinda depends on power too
kinda sorta, but not really.

the ribcases are "stronger" simply because they were built to handle more torque. they can take more abuse. however, there are plenty of N/A units living behind high horsepower/high torque engines and they hold up for years! however, if they are abused they don't seem to fare nearly as well. that's why i said it will depend on how you plan to use it.

for the Rx-8 tranny, i know that a lot of guys run the stock tranny in their turbocharged 8s, but i honestly have not paid any attention to if they were blowing them up, and if so, how often. so i really don't know. what i will say about them is this (and this is just my opinion), it's probably not worth it based on the ratios alone and definitely not without the Rx-8's rear end (or similar final drive).

[chibikougan]

Brian put around 500hp little less torque on a Rx8 6 speed and its still alive. You drove my car with the ACT HD PP and Street Strip disc so you know the feel of that a little.

[Tougemonster]

Figured I'd give y'all an update,
She's runnin abut better these days, been tuning the afm by clocking the spring looser to make it run richer.
I've gotten rid of the part throttle stumble and 3k lean spot

Gotta couple jobs lined up so I'm acquiring a 88 TII parts car
With some goodies including rtek 1.7, 720cc x 4 injectors, s5 turbo
Hks twin plate clutch with flywheel, and my fave 17x9 +22 enkie RPF1's :)

So looks like I'm going to boost the ole 6 port bridgy
I might use a to4 series turbo if water cooling the s5 turbo is to cumbersome
Most likely going v mount as well , and water injection for sure

Should be fun I hope, shooting for 280 to 300 hp at around 10-12 psi
I want to look into divided manafolds and turbine housings to go with the 9.4 rotors.
Hopefully should spool alright if my compressor wheel isn't to heavy ( I heard to4 series wheels are chunky)

If anyone has any input on timing maps for a half bridge turbo with 9.4's
I'd really appreciate it
It will end up either on a ms3x or haltec ( not sure yet, ideas?)

[chibikougan]

Uhhhhh lift kit and.....I got nothing from there..

[RETed]

, and water injection for sure

Should be fun I hope, shooting for 280 to 300 hp at around 10-12 psi

Waste of time...


-Ted

[Tougemonster]

Not enough boost?
I thought water injection might be a good idea on 9.4 rotors

Got any input I can use?
I got people telling my my whole car is a waste of time...all the time. hah

[Tougemonster]

So it's I time to boost, motor is fully broken in.
Extra turbo LIM is ported for 6port
Trying to decide on a exhaust housing , I'm lookin at a To4b .60 a/r comp wheel with either a non divided .96 or a divided 1.12, any input?
Is a single 46mm waste gate enough to control boost a around 10-13 psi?
I'm going for a fast spooling, without limiting the top to much
Only want to rev to about 7800-8000

Getting a turbo parts car in a few days hopefully. Should make the transition to boost easier:)