280rwhp@9lbs of boost, stock turbo,stock ecu

[Judge Ito]

ported engine, larger secondary injectors, 3 inch downpipe. 9lbs of boost..walbro255 everything else is stock series 5 equipment.. enjoy


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TzojeQULJR8&feature=player_profilepage

[Judge Ito]

i tried to raise the boost past 9psi, but it would lean out way out of range. so @ 9psi was the best air fuel ratios.. left it happy at 9lbs..

[Boosted FC]

Awesome #s. What size secondaries are you running?

[730RWHP12A]

thats really good!

[Judge Ito]

Awesome #s. What size secondaries are you running?850cc's

[N.RotaryTech]

Dayum!

What kind of porting?

[Judge Ito]

Dayum!

What kind of porting?

streetport, same port as my templates i sell.

[Mazdabater]

I was unaware the stock ecu could run an extend port or larger secondary's. Nice work though!

[Judge Ito]

I was unaware the stock ecu could run an extend port or larger secondary's. Nice work though!stock ecu has limitations, but the trick is to take advantages of it's limitations..

[N.RotaryTech]

I am amazed at this, your making around 100HP over stock, just with upgraded exhaust, fuel, and porting.

I was unaware the stock ecu could run an extend port or larger secondary's. Nice work though!

stock ecu has limitations, but the trick is to take advantages of it's limitations..
I know a little something about this. :D


This really makes me want to get my engines on the dyno.

[Judge Ito]

I am amazed at this, your making around 100HP over stock, just with upgraded exhaust, fuel, and porting.




I know a little something about this. :D


This really makes me want to get my engines on the dyno.best part about this is. this amount of hp is enough to keep most of us happy in a street car. not much went into achieving this hp goal. ofcourse some people want more, but the average rx7 enthusiast would be very happy with a simple set-up like this. I drive this rx-7 once in a while (when my kid breaks an engine mount, and drops it off for me to fix it) and i could tell you it's a fast and great car to drive.

[Raksj04]

wow, i am just curious what rpm are you hitting 280?

[Judge Ito]

wow, i am just curious what rpm are you hitting 280?i didnt look at the rpm on the screen, but i'll get back to u on that..

[tyler]

How are you combating fuel cut?

[Mazdabater]

Is this the same car you put in the other thread that ran the 13.0 at 104mph?

[Judge Ito]

How are you combating fuel cut?racing beat fuel cut controller..

[Judge Ito]

Is this the same car you put in the other thread that ran the 13.0 at 104mph?yes, this is my kid's rx7. you could follow her build and progress on my shops facebook. search for Arp shop in fb

[Mazdabater]

Odd. My FC when it was a very similar setup stock turbo, stock fuel pump/injectors with an extend port made 220hp but did 13.5 @ 104mph down the 1/4. I thought the mph would be higher for 280hp.

[diabolical1]

Ito, honestly, i hear you on that point you made about this being enough for the street. as you've shown, it can be done with mostly stock equipment. as usual, great work!

does she have a sense of what's next or are you the driving mind behind the car's development?

[Pete_89T2]

Odd. My FC when it was a very similar setup stock turbo, stock fuel pump/injectors with an extend port made 220hp but did 13.5 @ 104mph down the 1/4. I thought the mph would be higher for 280hp.

Based on HP alone, I did too, but 1/4 mile times and trap speeds also depend greatly on the driver's response time off the line and how well the tires hook up and get the car moving. You can have 1000 HP, but if you sit there spinning your wheels off the line it's going to sap your trap speed & 1/4 time.

[diabolical1]

^if i recall, she was having issues with the clutch. that sounds like more than enough to cause any performance discrepancies you find in the time and trap speed.

[Judge Ito]

Odd. My FC when it was a very similar setup stock turbo, stock fuel pump/injectors with an extend port made 220hp but did 13.5 @ 104mph down the 1/4. I thought the mph would be higher for 280hp.what so odd? on a previous run she did 105.66mph and also had clutch issues,(slipping from second gear on) the clutch slippage will cause a low mph. and your missing the most important factor. this is a rookie driver. this is my kid's 3rd time at the track, and she barely knows how to get the gears in. in-experience plays a huge role in drag racing. so i'll keep updating her progress..

[Judge Ito]

Ito, honestly, i hear you on that point you made about this being enough for the street. as you've shown, it can be done with mostly stock equipment. as usual, great work!

does she have a sense of what's next or are you the driving mind behind the car's development?Jason, she needs tons of practice with the current set-up.. considering im dealing with a green drag racer i would say she has potential..

[Judge Ito]

Based on HP alone, I did too, but 1/4 mile times and trap speeds also depend greatly on the driver's response time off the line and how well the tires hook up and get the car moving. You can have 1000 HP, but if you sit there spinning your wheels off the line it's going to sap your trap speed & 1/4 time.

don't forget the weight of the vehicle vs hp also determines E.T./mph

[Mazdabater]

Her 60ft time is excellent. So therefore what I'm getting at is the mph isn't there for 280hp. Obviously there is no traction issues. As for weight and hp I'm comparing 2 very similar setup cars.

[Judge Ito]

Her 60ft time is excellent. So therefore what I'm getting at is the mph isn't there for 280hp. Obviously there is no traction issues. As for weight and hp I'm comparing 2 very similar setup cars.seems like you dont have much drag racing experience, when a car is SLIPPING A CLUTCH, the car is basically running still. forward momentum is sacrified and E.T./MPH is effected. it's that simple. this 13.0 run was a no where near perfect run. I addressed that a few times and you still don't get it. According to her 60ft mark she should've ran 12.88 but she didnt, showing some issues with in the run. and as far as weight, i'll get some numbers soon. car should run some where between 12.5 -12.6 i'll keep updating her progress

[Judge Ito]

Her 60ft time is excellent. So therefore what I'm getting at is the mph isn't there for 280hp. Obviously there is no traction issues. As for weight and hp I'm comparing 2 very similar setup cars.you want to compare 2 similar cars? she went half a second faster then you while the clutch slipped most of the quarter mile. takes alot more then 220rwhp to do that. a comparison cannot be done until the car has a clean run with no clutch issues. hope this helps..

[Mazdabater]

I did a 2.0 sec 60ft so that explains most of the e/t difference. I doubt the clutch was that bad or it wouldn't have gotten off the line so quick. It should be pulling 110 or so mph.

[Judge Ito]

I did a 2.0 sec 60ft so that explains most of the e/t difference. I doubt the clutch was that bad or it wouldn't have gotten off the line so quick. It should be pulling 110 or so mph.your not reading correctly, car had clutch issues from second gear on and almost to the finish line. clutch was an issue. and im thinking im wasting my time with you. just hang around and wait for updates.. :beatdeadhorse5:

[GoopyPerformance]

Knowing Ito we will soon see 300HP with this same setup!!!...nice combo for a first gen

[Judge Ito]

wow, i am just curious what rpm are you hitting 280?I gave the dyno shop a call, peak hp was @7400 rpm and peak torque was at 5800 rpm's..

[Mazdabater]

Wait this engine is in a first gen? If so that makes me even more doubtful it's got 280hp. Also I don't know of any cars that have a problem with a clutch that only affects certain gears.

[Judge Ito]

clutch should be fixed by tomorrow. and later in the evening out to Island dragway for some more practice runs..

[Judge Ito]

Wait this engine is in a first gen? If so that makes me even more doubtful it's got 280hp. Also I don't know of any cars that have a problem with a clutch that only affects certain gears.did u not see the youtube dyno link? it's a seies 5 turbo Rx7. what goopy means is, a set-up like this in a first gen rx7 would be a fun toy being a first gen is alot ligther..

[RotorDad]

Looking forward to see the progression of this car.

[Judge Ito]

Wait this engine is in a first gen? If so that makes me even more doubtful it's got 280hp. Also I don't know of any cars that have a problem with a clutch that only affects certain gears.I'm not sure what your problem is, from the beggining your insinuating that a stock ecu cannot achieve these goals, then you go on and on. For your information, I have dynoed over 327rwhp with a stock ecu over 10 years ago. and ran 11.7 with that same stock ecu in a series 4 turbo II..

not only did I post a dyno sheet but also posted a dyno video pull. i'm not here to brag but to show the potential involved with a simple set-up like this. I could even tell you on a 10lbs of boost pull my kid's car made 291rwhp. I didnt post 291rwhp because the engine went lean and that is not a realistic goal/tune..

the car made back to back 280rwhp @ 9psi of boost with the proper A/F ratio, and that jack is the facts believe it or not..

here i'll post some pics her clutch with tons of heat spots from slippage.. I hope you know how to read a slipping clutch.. so sit back relax and enjoy the progress on this simple but effective build..

[Judge Ito]

Looking forward to see the progression of this car.by tomorrow morning the new clutch should be installed and change fluids and leave it ready for the evening. i'll try to have some video footage..

[Mazdabater]

It seems incredibly unlikely that that's the real hp. I'm hoping you prove me wrong and I'm not having a go but I have seen so many hp claims that don't back it up at the track, and thats what this looks like, not so much concerned with the ecu, but I am aware of how inefficent the stock turbo is. And as for the clutch slip it cannot be that bad to do a 1.8 sec 60ft. Back to my 13.5 @104 on 220hp was with a 2.0 60ft, on a better track/tyres my 60ft time would be improved thus my et and mph would have changed.

At the end of the day if I see it pulling mid 12's at 110+ mph I'll shut my mouth and give credit where credits due as this is quite an achievement.

[Judge Ito]

It seems incredibly unlikely that that's the real hp. I'm hoping you prove me wrong and I'm not having a go but I have seen so many hp claims that don't back it up at the track, and thats what this looks like, not so much concerned with the ecu, but I am aware of how inefficent the stock turbo is. And as for the clutch slip it cannot be that bad to do a 1.8 sec 60ft. Back to my 13.5 @104 on 220hp was with a 2.0 60ft, on a better track/tyres my 60ft time would be improved thus my et and mph would have changed.

At the end of the day if I see it pulling mid 12's at 110+ mph I'll shut my mouth and give credit where credits due as this is quite an achievement.even if you improve to a 1.8 60 ft mark your car will NOT pick up half a second in the big end.. and your wrong again, when any car improves 60ft mark, the E.T. improves but the mph will not(basically the quarter mile is driven in a more efficient way) and if you think the clutch was not bad enough according to all the heat shown from slippage then you have very limited experience in the world of drag racing..

and your wrong again with saying it should trap 110mph, before you make any assessment, the weight/hp needs to be known. and in this case you DO NOT KNOW how much the car tips the scale with the driver.

according to the weight of the car and the 280rwhp the car should trap 106.22mph..

with 292rwhp it should trap 108mph

and with 311rwhp it should trap 110mph ofcourse any of this is assuming the car will have good traction and driven efficiently..

[Mazdabater]

I'm just assuming 60 more rwhp picking up more mph then my 220ho car. As for the weight my car is probably heavier then stock by a little bit and I weigh 106kg so I doubt your heavier. As for mine taking .2 off my 60ft would probably take .4 or so off my et putting me at around a 13.1 and I'm sure it could have hit 1mph extra with some extra traction. Also if your clutch is that fucked you should even gain some rwhp on the dyno with a new one. I'm still not able to see 280hp. And picking up an extra 11rwhp gain going to 10psi on the stock turbo seems incredible to me given how inefficient they are up high.

[Mazdabater]

And we are both flogging dead horses here I'll just shutup and wait for the results next time at the strip.

[My5ABaby]

There's a dyno and video posted... I'm not sure where the massive doubt is coming from.

[RETed]

"Most people" would have a hard time getting the stock turbo to push anything past 240 - 250hp at the wheels, even on a DynoJet.
What we're dealing with here is a lot of hush-hush stuff that the OP isn't willing to give all the nitty gritty details to at this point in time.
Even I have my doubts on how a "stock turbo" + "stock ECU" is going to push an honest 280 at the wheels myself...
I was going to leave this alone and hopefully some useful hints might get posted, but it's starting to go in the wrong direction.

We don't know what kind of fuel this set-up is using, but it might be some "exotic" race fuel...
We don't know what kind of ignition timing this set-up is using, although advancing the ignition timing doesn't usually gain that much power, but I have a feeling we're not dealing with stock ignition timing settings.
We're not talking about some ultra high RPM range (over 9,000+ RPM's), so that's not it.
DynoJet #'s can be fudged to read high; so far the reputation of the dyno owner hasn't been questioned yet (but I'm sure it will be now) - the pic does show the run being "UNCORRECTED".
There's not talk about some kind of supplemental injection; the only thing mentioned is a larger fuel pump + larger secondaries.
(Hell, 50-shot nitrous anyone?)
I don't there was mention of the stock top-mount intercooler or if there was a front-mount intercooler installed?
An FMIC would explain a 10 - 20hp gain over the stock top-mount intercooler set-up.
How about custom A2W intercooler? Ice?
CO2 / LN2 / N2O sprayer on the intercooler core?
We don't know the boost graph over the entire run.
Unless the system was running a closed-loop (electronic) boost controller, stock turbos tend to run higher peak boost right before peak torque and then taper of toward redline - so is the "9psi" the max it managed to hit, or was it closer to redline?
We don't know ambients - temperature or humidity.
Dry day with close to freezing temps will increase power (over a humid and hot day).
The OP also hinted about vehicle weight - we don't know the weight of the vehicle + driver.
Most "full interior" FC's are going to weigh around 3,000 lbs.
It's possible to get the FC down to 2,800 lbs. with driver or even down to 2,600 lbs. pretty easily.
What about what kind of rear tires?
Slicks would definitely aid traction.
Drag radials? Maybe.
Street tires? Possibly.
Too much variables...

In my experience, the stock turbo is only good for 240 - 250hp at the wheels.
An FMIC might give you another 10hp on top of that.
Someone on here claims they hit 270.
We do know the inducer and exducer measurements of the stock turbo.
When we average the #'s out, it slots in around a big T3 and under a small T04.
The "280" @ "9psi" is more what a T04B "V-trim" would do, and that's way up the chart.
http://fc3spro.com/TECH/TURBO/tmodels.html

The pics of the clutch shows it was clearly destroyed and / or abused.
For a "3-puck" clutch disc to look like that, I want to know what it went through to end up like that.
Unless it was some inferior quality product (high doubtful), it would take a lot more than 300 lb-ft of torque to kill it unless it was abused (highly doubtful too).
I also question why even bother post a time slip from a run that you knew the clutch was slipping?
Maybe we just don't have the cajones like you do, but once I feel the clutch slipping, I call it a night and pack it up; the time slips get all throw in the trash.
I know you have a ton of drag racing experience, but I wonder why cause all this hubbub with a slipping clutch?


-Ted

[jacobcartmill]

ITO, i'm not hating on you here, but all signs here point to "hybrid stock turbo."

looks like a BNR stage 1, or maybe a t04b v-trim fitted into the stock compressor housing.

[N.RotaryTech]

I kind of agree with RETed on this one. Good points.
His dyno video does show a top mount IC.

[Judge Ito]

"Most people" would have a hard time getting the stock turbo to push anything past 240 - 250hp at the wheels, even on a DynoJet.
What we're dealing with here is a lot of hush-hush stuff that the OP isn't willing to give all the nitty gritty details to at this point in time.
Even I have my doubts on how a "stock turbo" + "stock ECU" is going to push an honest 280 at the wheels myself...
I was going to leave this alone and hopefully some useful hints might get posted, but it's starting to go in the wrong direction.

We don't know what kind of fuel this set-up is using, but it might be some "exotic" race fuel...
We don't know what kind of ignition timing this set-up is using, although advancing the ignition timing doesn't usually gain that much power, but I have a feeling we're not dealing with stock ignition timing settings.
We're not talking about some ultra high RPM range (over 9,000+ RPM's), so that's not it.
DynoJet #'s can be fudged to read high; so far the reputation of the dyno owner hasn't been questioned yet (but I'm sure it will be now) - the pic does show the run being "UNCORRECTED".
There's not talk about some kind of supplemental injection; the only thing mentioned is a larger fuel pump + larger secondaries.
(Hell, 50-shot nitrous anyone?)
I don't there was mention of the stock top-mount intercooler or if there was a front-mount intercooler installed?
An FMIC would explain a 10 - 20hp gain over the stock top-mount intercooler set-up.
How about custom A2W intercooler? Ice?
CO2 / LN2 / N2O sprayer on the intercooler core?
We don't know the boost graph over the entire run.
Unless the system was running a closed-loop (electronic) boost controller, stock turbos tend to run higher peak boost right before peak torque and then taper of toward redline - so is the "9psi" the max it managed to hit, or was it closer to redline?
We don't know ambients - temperature or humidity.
Dry day with close to freezing temps will increase power (over a humid and hot day).
The OP also hinted about vehicle weight - we don't know the weight of the vehicle + driver.
Most "full interior" FC's are going to weigh around 3,000 lbs.
It's possible to get the FC down to 2,800 lbs. with driver or even down to 2,600 lbs. pretty easily.
What about what kind of rear tires?
Slicks would definitely aid traction.
Drag radials? Maybe.
Street tires? Possibly.
Too much variables...

In my experience, the stock turbo is only good for 240 - 250hp at the wheels.
An FMIC might give you another 10hp on top of that.
Someone on here claims they hit 270.
We do know the inducer and exducer measurements of the stock turbo.
When we average the #'s out, it slots in around a big T3 and under a small T04.
The "280" @ "9psi" is more what a T04B "V-trim" would do, and that's way up the chart.
http://fc3spro.com/TECH/TURBO/tmodels.html

The pics of the clutch shows it was clearly destroyed and / or abused.
For a "3-puck" clutch disc to look like that, I want to know what it went through to end up like that.
Unless it was some inferior quality product (high doubtful), it would take a lot more than 300 lb-ft of torque to kill it unless it was abused (highly doubtful too).
I also question why even bother post a time slip from a run that you knew the clutch was slipping?
Maybe we just don't have the cajones like you do, but once I feel the clutch slipping, I call it a night and pack it up; the time slips get all throw in the trash.
I know you have a ton of drag racing experience, but I wonder why cause all this hubbub with a slipping clutch?


-Ted

TOP MOUNT original intercooler. I posted a dyno video of the pull. stock ignition componets.. STOCK MEANS STOCK. no exoctic fuel, average local gas station 93 octane. no CO2 / LN2 / N2O or anything else for that matter. reason I Posted some information on this car is simple, to show the potential with a very simple set up. this is NOT my car, this is my 18 year old kid's rx7 and she is the one currently driving the car with very little track time(she did not understand the clutch was screaming and did not lift). and so far she is on a good roll. also reason the clutch pics were shown is to keep informing that the 13.0 run was with clutch slippage and better times are to come..

the car held 9lbs of boost from 5500rmps up to the factory rev limiter. rear tires were mickey thompson DOT drag radials. ignition timing was factory -5 and -20 @ the 750 rpm idle. to be continue.

forgot to ADD stock series 5 ecu.. stock means STOCK. no rtek, apex afc, NADA MEANS NADA. i will add with the 850cc secondaries the car would lean out past 9psi. later on as we go, ill find a way to add more fuel past 9psi with some additional injection.

[Judge Ito]

And we are both flogging dead horses here I'll just shutup and wait for the results next time at the strip.rain our way today, but the weekend looks good. to be continue

[Judge Ito]

ITO, i'm not hating on you here, but all signs here point to "hybrid stock turbo."

looks like a BNR stage 1, or maybe a t04b v-trim fitted into the stock compressor housing.to my knowledge is a stock series 5 turbo. here i have a picture of the ported engine installation. there you could see the factory turbo with factory compressor. that is my kid Sierra helping with the install.

[rx71king]

(quote)..In my experience, the stock turbo is only good for 240 - 250hp at the wheels ...i made 265 on a stock s5 turbo on a ported 12a block...11123....it is possible..good job Ito....:biggthumpup:

[Mazdabater]

Dyno sheets dont mean shit at the end of the day. I had one of the bigger rotary workshops give me a dyno sheet that read 450hp, it didnt feel like 450hp, turned out on another dyno to only make 313hp. You can fudge dyno figures. Known fact. Not saying it happened in this case but I'm saying the real world results > dyno numbers. So many rotors over here in aus have dyno sheets that read 450 - 500hp and still only trap 110mph down the strip. This is probably what makes me so skeptical of things these days.

[Judge Ito]

Dyno sheets dont mean shit at the end of the day. I had one of the bigger rotary workshops give me a dyno sheet that read 450hp, it didnt feel like 450hp, turned out on another dyno to only make 313hp. You can fudge dyno figures. Known fact. Not saying it happened in this case but I'm saying the real world results > dyno numbers. So many rotors over here in aus have dyno sheets that read 450 - 500hp and still only trap 110mph down the strip. This is probably what makes me so skeptical of things these days. I see your point but I'm not in Australia, over the years I have posted 100% accurate dyno numbers on what ever rotary car I was working at the moment. never inflated or false numbers. no need for that. i'm on the hunt for real results. clutch on this rx7 is already fixed and waiting for the weekend.

[88turboii]

that does not sound like a stock turbo.. when i had my s5 turbo maxed out, it made 250whp, boost dropped from 9psi to 6psi by redline, running off stock wastegate spring. If turned up the boost, the torque curve would just get better.. peak power wouldnt budge at 250whp.

the fact you gained 10 hp by upping the boost to 10psi shows me your turbo is modified.. maybe something similar to a BNR stage 1, where it looks stock because the compressor housing is milled out for bigger wheel. or maybe your hot side wheel is melted or chipped, creating the affect of a clipped wheel. who knows

I like the simplicity of your mods. people think im crazy when i just tell them just to throw some bigger secondaries in, retard the CAS by 5 deg and have at it on the stock ecu. my brother's high-comp n/a is turbo'd using 720cc sec's, TII maf, and retarded CAS and its been running 6 psi for about a year now with no problems. this results in AFRs in the 11's in boost. it leans out up top, but its because he is still running stock fuel pump.

dont believe all the advice you see on the forums, most of the time its people just regurgitating what they have read and never tried themselves

[Judge Ito]

transmission had a 5th gear synchro broken and a few internal parts rattled up. fixed everything and took it for a drive, trans is behaving better and the new clutch is also reacting quicker. weather has been shitty so updates will be posted soon..

[Judge Ito]

that does not sound like a stock turbo.. when i had my s5 turbo maxed out, it made 250whp, boost dropped from 9psi to 6psi by redline, running off stock wastegate spring. If turned up the boost, the torque curve would just get better.. peak power wouldnt budge at 250whp.

the fact you gained 10 hp by upping the boost to 10psi shows me your turbo is modified.. maybe something similar to a BNR stage 1, where it looks stock because the compressor housing is milled out for bigger wheel. or maybe your hot side wheel is melted or chipped, creating the affect of a clipped wheel. who knows

I like the simplicity of your mods. people think im crazy when i just tell them just to throw some bigger secondaries in, retard the CAS by 5 deg and have at it on the stock ecu. my brother's high-comp n/a is turbo'd using 720cc sec's, TII maf, and retarded CAS and its been running 6 psi for about a year now with no problems. this results in AFRs in the 11's in boost. it leans out up top, but its because he is still running stock fuel pump.

dont believe all the advice you see on the forums, most of the time its people just regurgitating what they have read and never tried themselvesI have another series 5 turbo at my shop and I took a good look at both of the turbos. the 1 on my kid's car and the other series 5 I have spare. I came to 1 conclusion, they are both B.S.T. turbo's BST= BONE STOCK TURBOS..

[Judge Ito]

And we are both flogging dead horses here I'll just shutup and wait for the results next time at the strip.I told you to sit back relax and wait for results. she improves to 12.8@108.80mph on this run the car started to drift around the 1000ft mark and she pedaled it on and off(one tire had low tire pressure) and she pulled that time. rx7 has more in it. no clutch slippage at this time..

[Judge Ito]

Sierra just before her 12.8 run..

[RotorDad]

A little more seat time & she will be on her way to a mid 12 sec run.

[Judge Ito]

A little more seat time & she will be on her way to a mid 12 sec run.

your correct..

[Mazdabater]

Well I stand corrected. Incredible results for a stock turbo.

[EJayCe996]

How freaky, she looks just like my sister when she was her age.

[Judge Ito]

Well I stand corrected. Incredible results for a stock turbo.

more practice runs very soon..

[funkjaw]

Keep us posted! Fascinated thread btw.. I love all the doubters even though you have proof on paper for them to see!! lol.

[Justen]

Wow, small world, I think I've seen your daughter driving this car around town.
Judge Ito, do you work at a shop on Grand St in Paterson?

[Judge Ito]

Wow, small world, I think I've seen your daughter driving this car around town.
Judge Ito, do you work at a shop on Grand St in Paterson?

yes, it's her daily driver. and I recently opened Advanced Rotary Performance in Grand st.. paterson,nj

[Justen]

yes, it's her daily driver. and I recently opened Advanced Rotary Performance in Grand st.. paterson,nj

Yeah, I think I actually spoke to your other daughter. I work at autozone's commercial counter on lakeview ave, she walked in and gave me your business card.
I'm gonna need some PowerFC tuning done. PM me your rates/prices, and I'll give you a call after i get a base map set up.

[Libor]

Why so much skepticism? So many numbers floating around without any performance proof and no one is questioning their validity only because they´re in some ballpark what has been done.:uhh::puke:

Ito gave us dyno sheet and peformance proof, so what´s the problem?

I just put some numbers to turbo calculator, gave it very conservative IC efficiency, assumed 90% VE at peak power (I think this is pretty valid), conservative BSFC and AFR and it spit out 300 HP@crank at 9 psi boost. Torque values are also valid.

It seems that people are totally forgetting what makes power. I just happens that this very example is working efficiently despite all ods and doubts:biggthumpup:

Given the fact that Ito didn´t mentioned race weight, we can just guess. But at 3000 pounds, 300 HP would be totally valid.

Ito, could you share weight? Just to keep track with how the car performs:grouphug:

[GoopyPerformance]

Ito's HP and Time slips are totally legit... We sold his daughter a USED Rx8 PP right before their 12 second pass. I remember her rushing her dad to get going since she had a 6pm nail appointment.

Ito had a Rx3 called Little Josh running 9.30s on nitrous and a few other cars running low 9s more than 10 years ago..For whatever reason he took a few years off and now he is back tuning and building. He is totaly capable of a 12 second pass. And I am sure he can pull off a high 11s with the stock ECU and stock turbo.

However It seems some of the doubters are folks that are either new to Rotarys or not familiar with East coast performance scene.

[RETed]

The HP #'s coincide with the drag strip #'s.
That's not the problem.

The problem is the stock turbo / stock ECU / (basically) stock fuel system / stock (top-mount) intercooler / *STOCK TURBO* claim.
I was hoping more info was going to be revealed before it all went to crap.
There is no way the stock turbo can support airflow at the claimed ambient temperatures at the claimed boost levels.
Although we don't have an official compressor map of the Hitachi HT-18, we can deduce it's airflow potential by measuring it's compressor wheel inducer and exducer - nothing fancy with that, and it's a well-known method to gauge turbo potential when you don't have the compressor map in front of you - I've already mentioned this, but most have ignore that reply.
That's my beef.

My experience with a Hitachi HT-18 running around 8psi to 9psi of boost would produce anywhere from 200hp to 230hp at the wheels.
Judge Ito is claiming 50hp+ over that.
I find it highly suspect.
Nothing more.
I'm not insulting him, his shop, or his reputation, but I'm sure you will argue otherwise.
Plenty of groupies will just raise the "Hater" flag, but I've been through that before.
Now you come in here and insult us by saying we don't know what the "East coast performance scene" is?
I guess you guys are running some rarified air or using some magic pixie dust out there then...
But you're just going to tell me I don't know what I'm talking about and just blowing sh*t out of my ass, right...


-Ted

[JuanFelix]

Pardon me if i may, I am fairly new at rotary performance but wouldn't the fact that the engine is ported which im sure was both intake and exhaust along side the larger injectors produce the extra power in question. is the principal not getting more air in and out of the engine as fast and burn it as efficiently as possible. I am very young compared to a lot of you guys and don't have nearly a quarter of the experience some of you have but i share that same passion that you do for rotaries. If the numbers are such and issue why not try your own build own setup like it and either confirm or debunk but i think its silly to keep taking stabs at one another in a irrelevant argument. i hope im not offending anyone i just want to move along and hope this forum does not turn into what the other ones have.

[RETed]

I'd like to know where the extra 20% to 25% gain in power came from myself?

Is it in the porting?
Does Judge Ito's porting make it that much superior that everything else out there?
That's what I want to know.

I doubt it's the porting.
Porting will only give you so much.
After a certain point, it's not the engine that's the restictions - it's the turbo.
Porting the engine all you want - bridge, PP, etc.
The turbo becomes the restriction.

It would be nice to get the answer to all of this, but I doubt that would be revealed anytime soon.
I'm not holding my breath...


-Ted

[Judge Ito]

I'd like to know where the extra 20% to 25% gain in power came from myself?

Is it in the porting?
Does Judge Ito's porting make it that much superior that everything else out there?
That's what I want to know.

I doubt it's the porting.
Porting will only give you so much.
After a certain point, it's not the engine that's the restictions - it's the turbo.
Porting the engine all you want - bridge, PP, etc.
The turbo becomes the restriction.

It would be nice to get the answer to all of this, but I doubt that would be revealed anytime soon.
I'm not holding my breath...


-Tedlisten you fucking hater, i've posted dyno runs showing the top mount intercooler. also posted a picture of the bone stock turbo. so shut the fuck up and stop deleting my post. yes it has everything to do with my porting and engine clearancing. nothing here to hide. it is what it is. and you continue to hate.

[Judge Ito]

to further avoid bumping heads with mods/admins from this site, i am done with this website. i have posted a video of the run at nopistons.com, if anybody wants/needs more info. on this car feel free to ask away over at nopistons.com where i am a moderator and have some home field advantage.

[N.RotaryTech]

Everyone just calm the fuck down.

to further avoid bumping heads with mods/admins from this site, i am done with this website. i have posted a video of the run at nopistons.com, if anybody wants/needs more info. on this car feel free to ask away over at nopistons.com where i am a moderator and have some home field advantage.
Really, Judge, really!
I like the premise of your build, but you've got a bad attitude, and a drama-queen complex.

I have nothing better to say, so I'm done with this thread.

[Judge Ito]

Everyone just calm the fuck down.


Really, Judge, really!
I like the premise of your build, but you've got a bad attitude, and a drama-queen complex.

I have nothing better to say, so I'm done with this thread.drama queen? if you only knew who you are talking too. far from that.. ted has been a hater for ages all over sites. this is nothing new. i repeat. for who ever is interested, updates will be at the other site..

[RETed]

You still bitching about this?

Do you even realize that (ZGN) restored the majority of the replies that I had initially deleted?
Now you're blaming me for all the other deletions - which I did not do?
Geezuschrist...


-Ted

[N.RotaryTech]

drama queen? if you only knew who you are talking too. far from that.. ted has been a hater for ages all over sites.
Ok, correction: a temper tantrum throwing child.


I would like to review this last pages posts, deleted ones and all.

It all started with Ted deleting some harmless posts.
Yes Ted was wrong to do that.

*What you could have done* was contact Ted and or the admins of this site and professionally discussed the deleted posts issue. I'm sure they would be undeleted and the thread would go on. They were harmless posts after all.

But instead you started getting all upset at Ted, then through PM's with the admins of this site, you blew up.
TTT posted some of those PM's which showed your childlike and unprofessional behavior.

So you post again, saying screw this site and Ted, when the posts you've posted got you in this situation.

More childlike behavior.

[Judge Ito]

NEW PERSONAL BEST... 12.46@109.72 MPH


http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh90/Judge-Ito/sierras124109mph.jpg

[Judge Ito]

NOTHING HAS BEEN DONE TO THE CAR.. just more track time for drivers...

[TheDriver216]

Grats

[GoopyPerformance]

After being there myself and seeing it with my own eyes I would like to congratulate Judge Ito and his daughters for great driving skills in running 12.6 twice and the 12.4 run..

On her last run if she did not miss 3rd it was for sure a 12.3 run.

She has a great approach at launching where she purposely slips the clutch and spins no tire.. Wonder how much longer that stock turbo can take.

Great Job

[Judge Ito]

1.6 on the 60ft mark..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6lXkueXMGJY

[Judge Ito]

Sierra 12.6@108mph

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EDTo0_jWMh8

[Judge Ito]

Sierra 12.4@109


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NLdO34lPZ4Y

[Judge Ito]

1.6....

[NoDOHC]

Judge, what AFR are you running? Your engine appears to be running pretty lean to put down that kind of power. Working with turbo engines at work every day, I have no trouble believing this power number and the drag strip times, but I do wonder if the engine is riding the razor edge of being damaged with a lean AFR and the stock intercooler.

Basically, I doubt that this much power was made rich of 12:1 and it was probably closer to 12.5:1. This is not a terrible idea, but it is a bit risky.

Please don't let Ted get to you, he is very blunt, but he has a lot of experience and it certainly is not to be discounted. The question that he asked was valid, he just asked it in an aggravating way.

It would seem that you have an excellent-condition stock turbo to hold 9 psi to 7500 rpm on a ported engine. What are you running for exhaust? How aggressive is the port work?
Is the porting a trade secret, or can you provide pictures?

[Judge Ito]

Judge, what AFR are you running? Your engine appears to be running pretty lean to put down that kind of power. Working with turbo engines at work every day, I have no trouble believing this power number and the drag strip times, but I do wonder if the engine is riding the razor edge of being damaged with a lean AFR and the stock intercooler.

Basically, I doubt that this much power was made rich of 12:1 and it was probably closer to 12.5:1. This is not a terrible idea, but it is a bit risky.

Please don't let Ted get to you, he is very blunt, but he has a lot of experience and it certainly is not to be discounted. The question that he asked was valid, he just asked it in an aggravating way.

It would seem that you have an excellent-condition stock turbo to hold 9 psi to 7500 rpm on a ported engine. What are you running for exhaust? How aggressive is the port work?
Is the porting a trade secret, or can you provide pictures?I didnt come here to argue with TED or anybody else, I came here to relax and share some real world results. shit that has been tested and proven. wether is 700+rwhp or in this case 280rwhp. to answer your question, 12 to1 or 12.5 to 1 is way to lean on a turbo charged rotary engine. you could do it but it's asking for trouble.. in this set-up. car dynoed the hp @ 11.2 to 1 air fuel ratio. this site is a piece of shit.. so if ur looking to carry on with questions. nopistons.com is my home. i also have this thread over there..

[Sharingan 19]

Aww, c'mon don't leave. you have 40 people congradulate you on some very impressive results and let the 2 doubters run you away? If you're right you're right.

Admitadly first though was to be skeptical when I saw the numbers, simply because 10 psi on a stock turbo usually only nets 220-230 whp (but that is usually on stock ports). However I've seen the type of port work you do on my friend's Alex's engine and if I stock turbo could hold 9 psi on those ports I have every confidence that these are authentic results.

[AnthonyNYC]

Ito, great results and congrats. I've seen this car in person and it runs! I got the same doubt years ago going 11.1 on stock FD twins and making 390HP because it did not add up and I did it with a stock ECU since the PFC was not available. Everyone doubted it but now you have guys in the high 10s with stock twins.

There are guys that calculate and analyze all the metrics and go on and on. The fast guys are not the ones that sit behind a PC and talk about the results of their calculations. You guys have to remember Ito was out there YEARS ago making power without turbos and expensive ECUs. You learn a LOT from that kind of experience. When racers were running NA 13Bs, apex seals were limited, no fancy parts no high tech ECU's, you're talking carbs and jetting and some headers, that's when great engine building and porting was your edge. There were no forums, maybe a big rx7 list but we knew who were the fast guys back then. Fast forward 10 or 15 years later, these guys will still have an edge. Keep up the good work Ito and keep posting the results!!!

Anthony

[RETed]

this site is a piece of shit.. so if ur looking to carry on with questions. nopistons.com is my home. i also have this thread over there..

Since you offered the invitation...

You still have to unnecessarily swear and insult others?
If you are going to insist on your poor attitude and can't objectively post without keeping your attitude against me (and others you don't like) out of it, I would rather have you leave and stick with other places who can swallow your negative side.

I would normally take out all the unnecessary bits and pieces, but you'd just give me crap for that.
I'll leave the last few replies just so others understand what's going on.

I'll take all criticism in PM's.
This thread is done for.


-Ted