Machine Shop ruined stat gear bearings

[JustJeff]

I just picked up S5 stationary gears from a machine shop. I had new bearings pressed in them....I believe they ruined them. I'll get some pics up as soon as I can. The rear is particularly bad. One real "nice" scar. The hole for oil passage is off centered. The press in tab is also of course off center and when they pressed that in they did a little damage to the gear.

The front isn't nearly as bad..but it's still not pretty.

I'll get pics up ASAP

[EasyE1]

Make them replace them.

[My5ABaby]

What did EasyE1 respond with? I'm so distracted by the avatar I missed it...



Seriously though, tell them to fix it or pay for the replacement.

[JustJeff]

Here are the pics. The ones I took pics of I can feel with my finger

Front Gear

http://a3.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/253477_1975602424090_1063965498_32089880_1211702_n .jpg

http://a5.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/248987_1975602664096_1063965498_32089881_669481_n. jpg

http://a7.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/247187_1975602744098_1063965498_32089882_8303356_n .jpg

Rear Gear

http://a1.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/251137_1975602824100_1063965498_32089883_2906292_n .jpg

Oil passage is off-center
http://a4.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/252472_1975603064106_1063965498_32089884_5026294_n .jpg

Off-center and more scrapes
http://a6.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/252587_1975603184109_1063965498_32089885_89895_n.j pg

They nicked the gear trying to press in the off-center tab
http://a1.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/246917_1975603584119_1063965498_32089888_1014829_n .jpg

http://a2.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/252417_1975603424115_1063965498_32089887_5994817_n .jpg

[Pete_89T2]

Damn that sucks, I hope the own up to the mistakes and do what it takes to make it right.

[JustJeff]

^ thanks, I called the owner as soon as I got home and looked them over in better lighting. He claims that there is no way their press could have damaged the bearings because they used aluminum...which couldn't have damaged the bearing...???

I've been too busy with work to take them back in and show him. We've agreed that I'll be back in on Monday with the parts to show him.

What has me annoyed is that it took them 3 weeks to do that kind of work.

[EasyE1]

3 weeks!? Fail.

The rear bearing is unacceptable period. The front I can't tell how deep the scratches are. But there should be no marking on the bearing surface if the proper tooling was used.

[RETed]

^ thanks, I called the owner as soon as I got home and looked them over in better lighting. He claims that there is no way their press could have damaged the bearings because they used aluminum...which couldn't have damaged the bearing...???

Is this a reputable shop???

This guy is an idiot.
(Journal) bearing material is usually some soft metal like lead, antimony, etc.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Babbitt_(metal)
Although aluminum's harness is very close to (pure) lead and (pure) antimony, enough abuse will cause damage.
On top of that, you can work harden aluminum to the point where it can get harder than the bearing babbitt surface - any competent person who does metal machining should KNOW this.
http://www.tedpella.com/company_html/hardness.htm
Damage to a journal bearing surface is DEATH.
I bet the aluminum guide / bearing press had sharp edges or the person doing the work was hamfisted or drunk.


-Ted

[NoDOHC]

Having done this numerous times, I find it very hard to understand how they messed it up. it literally takes about 15 minutes to replace stationary gear bearings and requires very little effort (using pineapple racing bearing installation tool).

You should always clean the tool and bearing and install assembly lube on the surfaces before pressing the bearing in.

I am saddened by this.

Getting the tab mis-aligned is not such a big deal (press it out, turn it and press it back in - although obviously you should catch this before it is pressed all the way in), but the scratches are hard to repair.

Best of luck to you.

[JustJeff]

3 weeks!? Fail.

The rear bearing is unacceptable period. The front I can't tell how deep the scratches are. But there should be no marking on the bearing surface if the proper tooling was used.

I dropped the parts off and he said no problem, I can pick them up in the AM. I actually forgot about the parts for a week and a half. I stopped in thinking they'd be done. They were still in his office where we left them. He was off property so I called the next day. He said he'd have them the next day. I call next day, they are not done and he is off property. I call a few days later still not done. I give them a week and still not done but he says I can pick them up in the morning.

They had to machine their own tool for the job.

Is this a reputable shop???

This guy is an idiot.
(Journal) bearing material is usually some soft metal like lead, antimony, etc.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Babbitt_(metal)
Although aluminum's harness is very close to (pure) lead and (pure) antimony, enough abuse will cause damage.
On top of that, you can work harden aluminum to the point where it can get harder than the bearing babbitt surface - any competent person who does metal machining should KNOW this.
http://www.tedpella.com/company_html/hardness.htm
Damage to a journal bearing surface is DEATH.
I bet the aluminum guide / bearing press had sharp edges or the person doing the work was hamfisted or drunk.


-Ted

Unfortunately I'm running out of machine shops in my town. I was using a machine shop specializing in automotive work. Till that guy convinced me that putting an electric fan temp switch in the radiator would be equally effective as putting it in the water pump housing.

A quality shop turned down the bearing work because they don't do automotive work.

So I went to this shop. The owner/manager seems shady. Not only did he keep promising me next day completion. But I believe he knows his shop did some poor work. When I picked up the gears in his office and started looking them over he got this look of dread...like he didn't really want me looking them over.

When I called him a few minutes later he started rattling off about using aluminum, etc etc. And I kept responding "Well I"m holding the gears in my hand looking at scratches in the bearings.."

About the tool they used...yes they made a guide/press for it and I was thinking the same thing. I bet they did the rear one first and realized afterwards they needed to clean it better.

Having done this numerous times, I find it very hard to understand how they messed it up. it literally takes about 15 minutes to replace stationary gear bearings and requires very little effort (using pineapple racing bearing installation tool).

You should always clean the tool and bearing and install assembly lube on the surfaces before pressing the bearing in.

I am saddened by this.

Getting the tab mis-aligned is not such a big deal (press it out, turn it and press it back in - although obviously you should catch this before it is pressed all the way in), but the scratches are hard to repair.

Best of luck to you.

Depending on what the owner/manager says on monday, I may be looking for someone to do this work. I've run out of shops in my small town. If I decided to mail them off to someone would you do the work and how much would you want?

[Max777]

What was the problem with the first machine shop? You're telling me you stopped doing business with someone decent just because of a little disagreement on where to put a temp probe?

Come on now, I don't get it.

Tell that one guy to get fucked. He did a piss poor job and if he has any sense of being a good businessman, he needs to fix that crap.

[JustJeff]

What was the problem with the first machine shop? You're telling me you stopped doing business with someone decent just because of a little disagreement on where to put a temp probe?

Come on now, I don't get it.

Tell that one guy to get fucked. He did a piss poor job and if he has any sense of being a good businessman, he needs to fix that crap.

I may go back to the first shop, though I get tired of them treating rotary parts like they might explode in their hands at any moment. My plan is to get the first shop to buy me new bearings and refund my labor costs. While waiting for the bearings to show up I'll take the gears to "the first shop", show them the damage done and ask if they can do it without damaging.

[JustJeff]

Did not get to Tristate today, I had to stay at work longer than expected and they close at 4.

[Ender]

the machinist I had do my rotor bearings managed to do a great job with a piece of a fucking DRIVE SHAFT for his press tool. there is no excuse for this.

[JustJeff]

Tristate Machining is replacing the bearings...though he still claims that he sees no issues with the bearings and he'd use them. "But if you're not happy with it we'll make it better"...as he said.

[Pete_89T2]

Sounds like a win, did they refund the labor costs too so you can bring the new bearings to another shop or are you giving them a 2nd chance at getting it right with the new bearings?

[NoDOHC]

Looks like you got it resolved.

However, if you still need bearings pressed in, I will gladly do the labor for free (it only takes 15 minutes), but you would have to pay shipping both ways (I don't run a charity).

You might also consider checking if someone has a set with good bearings for sale (although the front stationary gear bearing is almost always worn through the babbitt).

[JustJeff]

Sounds like a win, did they refund the labor costs too so you can bring the new bearings to another shop or are you giving them a 2nd chance at getting it right with the new bearings?

I haven't asked for labor costs back yet. I'm taking it in stages. I'm buying new bearings thru my local Mazda dealership and bringing him my paid invoice for him to reimburse me. At that point I'll let him know I'm expecting my labor costs refunded also.

He's not getting a 2nd chance and he doesn't want to try again..so it's a win-win for each of us.

I went back to the auto specialty machine shop and they turned down the work. They don't like the parts I bring to them cause they don't recognize them...they really don't like me or my rotary engine.

I did find a shop to do the work, King's. I showed the owner the gears and he right away asked who did that poor of work. When I told him Tristate he just kinda nodded knowingly and disappointed...like it wasn't all that unexpected. I should have the bearings by Friday. On Monday I'll drop them off at King's.

Looks like you got it resolved.

However, if you still need bearings pressed in, I will gladly do the labor for free (it only takes 15 minutes), but you would have to pay shipping both ways (I don't run a charity).

You might also consider checking if someone has a set with good bearings for sale (although the front stationary gear bearing is almost always worn through the babbitt).

I think I'm set on getting them pressed locally. However before I bought all my rebuild parts I did shop around for some used FD gears. I didn't find any that were as cheap as buying new bearings for my S5 gears.

All in all I had a good day. A day off work, got my parts back from a powder coater, got a discount on the powder coating cause it took him 2 months to do the work. AND got the bearings thing resolved. Hopefully next week (depending on my work schedule) I can reassemble the engine.

[TehMonkay]

FWIW some OEMs put the temp sensor for the fan in the radiator.

[JustJeff]

FWIW some OEMs put the temp sensor for the fan in the radiator.

Yep, I know. But at the time I was using a Summit Racing temp switch that was higher than I'd want at the bottom of my radiator. I've since found a Starion switch that matches the threading on the back of the water pump housing.

[My5ABaby]

They don't like the parts I bring to them cause they don't recognize them...they really don't like me or my rotary engine.
Quote of the day!

[TitaniumTT]

You might also consider checking if someone has a set with good bearings for sale (although the front stationary gear bearing is almost always worn through the babbitt).

Not if you know how to adjust a belt properly ;)

I haven't asked for labor costs back yet. I'm taking it in stages. I'm buying new bearings thru my local Mazda dealership and bringing him my paid invoice for him to reimburse me. At that point I'll let him know I'm expecting my labor costs refunded also.

I suspect he's going to stiff you when you show him the bill, or he'll cut you a bad check, or something ridiculous like that. For all the effort, you should've just bought new Renni gears.

[JustJeff]

Quote of the day!

LOL yay!!! I accomplished something today also. It's both funny and true.


Not if you know how to adjust a belt properly ;)



I suspect he's going to stiff you when you show him the bill, or he'll cut you a bad check, or something ridiculous like that. For all the effort, you should've just bought new Renni gears.

The thing is, I have more time than money. My current finances have me more willing to spend energy than money.

[mazdadude7]

hope it works out if not oct 31 isnt far away....

[TitaniumTT]

LOL yay!!! I accomplished something today also. It's both funny and true.




The thing is, I have more time than money. My current finances have me more willing to spend energy than money.

I have virtually zero free time so my decision making is a little different....

[JustJeff]

Got the gears back, bearings are pressed and they are clean. Assembly will happen this Sunday.

Oh and my finances will be improving by later in the summer. Landed a job last week, once I'm trained and up to speed I'll be on the path to good things.