Aftermarket Springs and AAS?

[infernosg]

So I've pretty much come to the realization that my '89 GXL will never really amount to too much more than a suped-up daily driver while I hold out for a S5 TII or FD...

That being said, how does the AAS system hold up to aftermarket springs? Because it's a daily driver I'd like to keep the system intact and as far as I know there are no aftermarket struts compatable with it. My experience with past vehicles is that stock struts do not like drops and will typically blow out within a year on drops 1" and greater.

[djmtsu]

Actually, any aftermarket struts will work.

You need to change the struts and springs all around, and then just take out the AAS switch and miscellaneous stuff.

I have not checked to see if aftermarket springs work with the AAS struts or not. Although, there really is not reason why they would not. The AAS strut is sort of like a KYB AGX or Tokico Illumina. The only difference is the Mazda AAS uses a small motor to turn the valve from soft to firm, whereas in the aftermarket, you do it yourself manually.

Hope this helps!

[infernosg]

Thanks for the input, but yeah, that's actually what I meant. I'd like to keep the AAS system in place as it stands now. I have no problem removing everything if it comes down to that; I just don't want two useless buttons on the center console so I'd have to go out and find a replacement with the coin holders, right?

Random question, are any aftermarket springs larger in diameter than stock? I ask because with my current wheel/tire combo I'm about 1/8" from the front spring/perch and tire. What are the good spring manufacturers for the RX-7 anyway? Tein still a good choice?

[djmtsu]

Tein can be stiff on the FC. One of the versions (don't remember) has a larger diameter spring for the fronts than the factory springs. So you would get potential rubbing.

Why not get Ground Control?

[infernosg]

Tein can be stiff on the FC. One of the versions (don't remember) has a larger diameter spring for the fronts than the factory springs. So you would get potential rubbing.

Why not get Ground Control?
Definitely good info again. I've heard bad things about coil sleeves from the crowd with my last car, but are the Ground Control sleeves any good for the RX-7? Pricier, obviously, but still may be a little much for what I'm looking for though. I've also been looking at Racing Beat springs, but again, I don't know what experience people have had with them (I know of issues with their exhaust fitment).

[RETed]

Random question, are any aftermarket springs larger in diameter than stock? I ask because with my current wheel/tire combo I'm about 1/8" from the front spring/perch and tire. What are the good spring manufacturers for the RX-7 anyway? Tein still a good choice?

Are you trying to avoid these brands?
If so, then stay away from the Tanabe GF210's and the Tein S-Tech's.
Both are known to have larger diameters, thus you'll end up with LESS clearance than stock.

Other good quality aftermarket springs are Racing Beat and Eibach (if you can find these).


-Ted

[infernosg]

^^^ Yep, trying to avoid anything that will have a larger diameter than stock as I'm almost certain it'll rub. I had heard about the Tanabe's (from here) but didn't know the Tein's were the same way, thanks.

FWIW, I based my entire wheel/tire choice on your writeup on fc3spro.com

[Ender]

I have Intrax progressive rate lowering springs. I don't know how they compare in terms of quality to others (probably not as good, and I know the paint hasn't survived Iowa weather real well), but I paid like $125 total for the set. I like them. They lower the car evenly and they are stiffer than stock. At the same time I installed them though I also built sway bar end links that use spherical bearings (so there's NO give in them like there is with any rubber bushing) and I installed KYB AGX adjustable struts. I've heard people like their Tanabe springs. I had a set and even installed the front ones, but then decided to sell them so I could buy something else the car needed.

[Max777]

IF you price out AGX struts, GC sleeves, and camber plates new, you get roughly $1144.00 without shipping or taxes.

Stance GR+ Coilovers go for $1200, are well designed, and have independent rideheight/spring compression adjustability, so even if you slam your car you still have full shock travel. You can get these with softer spring rates like 8K front 6K rear as well if you are worried about them being too stiff.

The stock AAS is crap, and should be gutted, the FC does not deserve such a disgrace of a suspension "system". IF you need a different center thing of W/E I got one for you.

People that don't have experience with modding often are very "Superstitious" when it comes to stuff, and worry about stipid shit like those AAS buttons, keeping the intake sleeves on a 6pt system, keeping emissions that down work, etc..... come on, it's a 20 y/o car. I bet once you get some new shocks that actually work, you will forget all about the ass.... I mean aas anyway.

[infernosg]

I'm definitely not inexperienced with modding cars (well, with the RX-7 I am), and like I said, I have no problem removing the system if it comes down to it - I just don't know what all is involved at this time. I also don't like useless buttons hanging around. My original idea was that because I've scaled back my plans for this car that I wouldn't dump $1000+ on the suspension. If I do decide to change the struts I'd likely go with Tokico HP's or something similar as I wouldn't need the adjustability on a daily driver. FWIW, I never knew the AAS was crap...

So you have a center console without the AAS buttons? I'm listening...

[djmtsu]

The stock AAS is not crap. It was good for what it was, remember this is 20+ year old technology.

FWIW my AAS still works on a 140K chassis. The motors turn the valves, and the suspension firms up. Hit the button, and it feels a little smoother over bumps.

Sorry Max, but you seem to have a hatred for what it essentially an AGX or Tokico that only has 2 positions. It isn't that crappy. The AAS on my 626 worked great too, and it was 3 position!!

Regardless, you should replace the struts and springs at the same time. No reason to take it apart twice.

All you have to do is remove the assemblies as a whole. Buy new struts mounts, and put together the new struts/springs, then bolt them back into the chassis.

Then, go get an alignment.

[infernosg]

^^^ Yep, leaning more towards removing it now as I'm going to have to replace the struts anyway, and the stock replacements are all $200+ new. I could go with the Tokico Illumina's and still pay less and probably have a better suspension feel.

I figured the removal/intall would be the same as with any car, but what all is involved with removing the AAS system as a whole? IE, the ECU, wiring, switches, etc?

[Ender]

I'm not real familiar with the AAS, but I'm pretty sure the ECU has nothing to do with it. There might be a wiring diagram in the FSM.

[djmtsu]

The ECU could care less if it is there or not. Just unplug the AAS motors at the top of the struts, if you want you can trace the harness back and remove all the wiring completely.

The switch just unplugs under the console and pops out. You can find consoles without the AAS and just swap out that piece.

There is no dummy light or anything that will come on when removed.

[infernosg]

Oops, by ECU I meant the control system for the AAS (I've heard people refer to the switches/motherboard as the ECU such as the horn ECU, wiper ECU, etc). I always thought the RX-7's systems were modular being OBDI. Either way, definitely easier to work with than my old Protege in which every mod required a resistor or something to trick the ECU.

But yeah, I'd probably just remove all the wiring and the switch just for completeness' sake.

[djmtsu]

I would help you out on the switch delete, but I have to keep it for my FC :)

[Rx-7fetish]

Definitely good info again. I've heard bad things about coil sleeves from the crowd with my last car, but are the Ground Control sleeves any good for the RX-7? I run ground control on my daily driver and love it. When your order a set of their coilovers they ask you how you drive the car the most and send you springs stiffness according to what you tell them.

Are you trying to avoid these brands?
If so, then stay away from the Tanabe GF210's and the Tein S-Tech's.
Both are known to have larger diameters, thus you'll end up with LESS clearance than stock. Tien S-tech was what i ran before the ground control, i had to use wheel spacers to keep from rubbing, when i took them off i found one of the front springs had sagged a noticeable difference from the other, then i found out that the S in S-tech stood for style

Other good quality aftermarket springs are Racing Beat and Eibach (if you can find these).


-TedEibach is the spring brand that ground control uses, its says so somewhere on the site and the springs have the name on them when i got them. The nice thing about the ground control set up is if you decide later that you want to get stiffer or softer springs you can order the new ones right from eibach, its the same springs they use on their coilovers. and reuse the rest of your suspension components. Also if one component of your system goes bad you can replace that specific part, instead of if a strut goes out on an expensive coilover set you gotta lot more pricey part to replace.

IF you price out AGX struts, GC sleeves, and camber plates new, you get roughly $1144.00 without shipping or taxes.

Stance GR+ Coilovers go for $1200, are well designed, and have independent rideheight/spring compression adjustability, so even if you slam your car you still have full shock travel. You can get these with softer spring rates like 8K front 6K rear as well if you are worried about them being too stiff. See above statement. Also slammed cars are completely impractical for a daily driver. Its a pita to get anywhere. Ask me how i know.........

The stock AAS is crap, and should be gutted, the FC does not deserve such a disgrace of a suspension "system". That was ground breaking technology at the time. Its only crap now because of what you said exactly its 20 years old.

People that don't have experience with modding often are very "Superstitious" when it comes to stuff, and worry about stipid shit like those AAS buttons, keeping the intake sleeves on a 6pt system, keeping emissions that down work, etc..... come on, it's a 20 y/o car. I bet once you get some new shocks that actually work, you will forget all about the ass.... I mean aas anyway. Not wanting useless buttons is hardly a superstition. Its showing care for your car. Taking the sleeves out kills bottom end, and the emissions does work, try passing a smog test without it. Instead of ripping broken parts out and calling it fixed how bout you fix them the right way. Of course its twenty years old, stuff breaks, not cause it sucks or was a poor design but because its old (okay the s4 6port activation system was a poor design, but their are numerous fixes all covered on this site somewhere.)

[Rx-7fetish]

Oops, by ECU I meant the control system for the AAS (I've heard people refer to the switches/motherboard as the ECU such as the horn ECU, wiper ECU, etc). I always thought the RX-7's systems were modular being OBDI. Either way, definitely easier to work with than my old Protege in which every mod required a resistor or something to trick the ECU.

But yeah, I'd probably just remove all the wiring and the switch just for completeness' sake.

No computer for it, just the switch to tell the motors what to do and the motors. Just unplug the switch and remove the motors

[Max777]

The stock AAS is not crap.


It's crap.

[infernosg]

^^^ LOL!
I run ground control on my daily driver and love it. When your order a set of their coilovers they ask you how you drive the car the most and send you springs stiffness according to what you tell them.

Tien S-tech was what i ran before the ground control, i had to use wheel spacers to keep from rubbing, when i took them off i found one of the front springs had sagged a noticeable difference from the other, then i found out that the S in S-tech stood for style

Eibach is the spring brand that ground control uses, its says so somewhere on the site and the springs have the name on them when i got them. The nice thing about the ground control set up is if you decide later that you want to get stiffer or softer springs you can order the new ones right from eibach, its the same springs they use on their coilovers. and reuse the rest of your suspension components. Also if one component of your system goes bad you can replace that specific part, instead of if a strut goes out on an expensive coilover set you gotta lot more pricey part to replace.

See above statement. Also slammed cars are completely impractical for a daily driver. Its a pita to get anywhere. Ask me how i know.........

That was ground breaking technology at the time. Its only crap now because of what you said exactly its 20 years old.

Not wanting useless buttons is hardly a superstition. Its showing care for your car. Taking the sleeves out kills bottom end, and the emissions does work, try passing a smog test without it. Instead of ripping broken parts out and calling it fixed how bout you fix them the right way. Of course its twenty years old, stuff breaks, not cause it sucks or was a poor design but because its old (okay the s4 6port activation system was a poor design, but their are numerous fixes all covered on this site somewhere.)
Definitely good info. Although the GC's are a little more expensive than I was considering the smaller spring diameter is a plus so it is something I am considering. As for slamming the car, that is something I am definitely not out to do. It's becomming more and more the fad to do so but I'm of the mind of a modest drop with more emphasis on performance improvement (ie, no crazy camber, stretched tires, etc.).

The only other thing I can think to comment on is the emissions removal. I was considering it somewhere down the line, but only if there is a "sanitized" version that would allow me to keep the airpump, OMP, BAC, etc. I could care less about the emissions as there is no e-check where I live, but I do not want to overly affect the driveability of a daily driver.

[djmtsu]

It's crap.

Alright, but all things being equal, I can hang with any combination of suspension on the Dragon.

[Max777]

omp does not have anything to do with the emissions, even S5 electrical ones will work fine with no emissions. You can keep the BAC no problem, in fact it's recommended, as well as the thermowax on the throttle body.

If you have an N/A, you can open the ports w/o the air pump. Check up Kevin Landers' write up.

As far as modding a 20yo, that's just the point, it's a 20yo car, not a Ferrari, so why treat it like one?

My car is fine, but it's hardly perfect, however I'm not disheartened by that, because I would rather sacrifice some little insignificant thing like a switch for better handling. Or a bit of low end torque for top end power. You'd be crazy not to... After all, modding a car is all about sacrificing one thing for another.

[Rx-7fetish]

omp does not have anything to do with the emissions, even S5 electrical ones will work fine with no emissions. You can keep the BAC no problem, in fact it's recommended, as well as the thermowax on the throttle body.

If you have an N/A, you can open the ports w/o the air pump. Check up Kevin Landers' write up.

As far as modding a 20yo, that's just the point, it's a 20yo car, not a Ferrari, so why treat it like one?

My car is fine, but it's hardly perfect, however I'm not disheartened by that, because I would rather sacrifice some little insignificant thing like a switch for better handling. Or a bit of low end torque for top end power. You'd be crazy not to... After all, modding a car is all about sacrificing one thing for another.

6 bucks sacrificed for a fish tank valve and some vac line has my ports working perfect, no loss of low end or top end, just an hour to get parts and roughly an hour to install and adjust. I built the car 5 years ago when i was 16 and didnt find the need to get rid of anything your talking about. I dont have emissions where i live and i still kept it all on my car.

[Ender]

I eliminated emissions for a few reasons:
1) More vacuum lines, solenoids, and other crap to break and therefore diagnose and fix.
2) It looks like shit. There's a reason it's called the rat's nest.
3) Weight. The lines and solenoids don't weigh much, but the ACV, air pump, and air pump intake probably make up ~15lbs.
4) It further familiarized me with the car, its systems and how they were originally made to work, and then how I can improve or improvise on that.

[infernosg]

^^^ I can see why someone would want to do that. This car, however, is going to be DD so the ACV, air pump, OMP, BAC, thermowax, 6PI and related components will be retained. If I can remove some/all emissions equipment and retain those then great, otherwise everything will be staying in.

[Max777]

Alright, but all things being equal, I can hang with any combination of suspension on the Dragon.

That just means you might be a decent driver and can use the car better than a lesser driver with better suspension. Tires also play a big part in it, some Toyos will make any relic handle like it's new again, while a guy with stiff suspension and worn out all seasons wont be as fast.

[Max777]

^^^ I can see why someone would want to do that. This car, however, is going to be DD so the ACV, air pump, OMP, BAC, thermowax, 6PI and related components will be retained. If I can remove some/all emissions equipment and retain those then great, otherwise everything will be staying in.

why would you want to keep the acv, air pump and the rat's nest?

The car drives fine w/o them, you can keep the other components like the OMP, the BAC, and warm up pellet, and remove the rest like I already said. I dont understand how "being a daily driver" has anything to do with keeping that stuff, cause it BARELY affects drivability....

6 bucks sacrificed for a fish tank valve and some vac line has my ports working perfect, no loss of low end or top end, just an hour to get parts and roughly an hour to install and adjust. I built the car 5 years ago when i was 16 and didnt find the need to get rid of anything your talking about. I don't have emissions where i live and i still kept it all on my car.

see? That's what I'm trying to figure out... I don't understand the need to keep almost any of it? To me, it's old useless crap that's taking up extra space in my engine bay, and making it look ghetto. Same goes for the stock fan and air box... I understand that some states you NEED to keep some of this stuff, but i can't imagine why anyone would want to unless you are trying to restore the car perfectly stock down to the last detail?

Emissions removal also makes it a lot easier and less of a hassle to pull the top intake off if you need to have access to the injectors or wiring harness.

[infernosg]

why would you want to keep the acv, air pump and the rat's nest?

The car drives fine w/o them, you can keep the other components like the OMP, the BAC, and warm up pellet, and remove the rest like I already said. I dont understand how "being a daily driver" has anything to do with keeping that stuff, cause it BARELY affects drivability....
I have S5 and I'd rather keep the 6 ports functioning so that means ACV and air pump are staying. If those are tied to the rat's nest (ie, it can't be removed without losing them) then it'll all stay. There are some decent hills and such where I live, I'd rather keep what little bottom end torque I have.

[djmtsu]

This thread has gone off topic.......big time.

[infernosg]

Well I guess my initial question was answered: you can run aftermarket springs in conjunction with the stock AAS system but some people feel the system itself sucks and is better off removed (among other systems). I guess close thread?

[Max777]

yes because it will physically work.

no because the aas and stock shocks are not designed for lowering springs, therefore you would be advised to upgrade to kyb or the like which is designed for stuff like that a bit better. This would delete the system.

If you want to put springs on the AAS shocks, then power to you, it will work.

[Rx-7fetish]

yes because it will physically work.

no because the aas and stock shocks are not designed for lowering springs, therefore you would be advised to upgrade to kyb or the like which is designed for stuff like that a bit better. This would delete the system.

If you want to put springs on the AAS shocks, then power to you, it will work.

Agreed it will work but the shocks will be under constant load unless the new springs dont drop the car at all, which will blow them faster, as far as i know there are no replacements for the aas shocks

[infernosg]

...as far as i know there are no replacements for the aas shocks
Nope, just stock, and for the price, I'd rather get AGX's or Illumina's. he car will be dropped on Racing Beat springs and either of those struts. I'm just looking around for the best prices...

[Rx-7fetish]

see? That's what I'm trying to figure out... I don't understand the need to keep almost any of it? To me, it's old useless crap that's taking up extra space in my engine bay, and making it look ghetto. Same goes for the stock fan and air box... I understand that some states you NEED to keep some of this stuff, but i can't imagine why anyone would want to unless you are trying to restore the car perfectly stock down to the last detail?

Emissions removal also makes it a lot easier and less of a hassle to pull the top intake off if you need to have access to the injectors or wiring harness.

Because im only 21 and do not plan on driving a 1986 mazda rx7 base model for the rest of my life. Why would someone want to buy my car if i have to tell them that its not legal in half of america to drive:o11: (technically all but you can go without where there are no emissions test).

I was just proving that instead of going through all the work of taking apart half my engine and buying 40-50 dollars in block of plates and caps, and lose bottom end by wiring open my ports, i spent 6 bucks and an hour of my time to get low/top end torque and still keep my engine intact. I plan for the future. Now my 10th ann im going to ditch it all. I plan to run that to the ground...

Im also tired of all my friends ditching broken components of there cars, ghetto rigging the engine to run without them then using the "i took it off for weight reduction excuse" If i can have an average 150-200 pound friend ride with me and not notice to much performance loss, i dont see the need to ditch 30 pounds of crap, unless im gutting the interior too. And power steering, and ac, and heat, and my radio...... Its all or nothin man.

[Roen]

Where do the Stances have independent rebound and compression adjusters? I only see one adjuster, unless I'm missing something.