Rotary Engine Failure due to Side Rotor/Side Rotor Housing Clearance..

[MotoTek]

This thread is based on conversation that took placeHERE about if clearancing the rotor is necessary or not on street driven engine. Posts are moved here by request

Originally Posted by charlies7

Rotors are race clearanced and cleaned

Who clearanced the rotors for you? Also, what is the purpose? Running high levels of boost?

[Herblenny]

Originally Posted by MotoTek

Who clearanced the rotors for you? Also, what is the purpose? Running high levels of boost?

I'm confused also.. maybe because its late at night but what does it entail when you say "race clearanced"??

[charlies7]

Originally Posted by MotoTek

Who clearanced the rotors for you? Also, what is the purpose? Running high levels of boost?

Originally Posted by Herblenny

I'm confused also.. maybe because its late at night but what does it entail when you say "race clearanced"??

Glen would have to elaborate since I am not a engine builder . However it allows you to rev the piss out of the motor without interference of the irons.

[Herblenny]

Originally Posted by charlies7

Glen would have to elaborate since I am not a engine builder . However it allows you to rev the piss out of the motor without interference of the irons.

I could see it being balanced.. But that doesn't mean you could still spin the "piss out" of it... Usually you also have to balance everything else.. including eshaft and flywheel.

I'm also curious how you are going to save money.. Because I thought you still have to buy a short block

[glenrx7]

I think Charlie was making a very gerneral stament becuase of the proprietary process I do not share.

Basically you are correct Herb......It is one of the steps we take to allow for increase rpm operations. These engines were designed with certain power and tourque outputs, when increasing that output some cleanrences need to be incresed.

Steps AZRR takes

1. clearencing the rotors(proprietary)
2. balncing the rotaing assembly
3. stationary gear mod (proprietary)
4. seal clearencing (proprietary)

As you can see most of what we do is a trade secret, so charlie does not know the whole story but in general he is correct.

[Herblenny]

Glen,

I'm not trying to give you or Charlie hard time, but I'm still confused to what "cleanrences need to be incresed". Does this mean, tighter seal fit to the grooves or just balance? I know you say its 'proprietary', but I also think that's pretty general statement.

And lastly, if it is truly proprietary stuff, I don't know why you are allowing Charlie to post pictures of the rotors and such.

[glenrx7]

Phill, its just not something I am going to discuss. I dont want charlie to feel like he cant share his project ...I am not going to elaborate on our processes.

[Herblenny]

Originally Posted by glenrx7

Phill, its just not something I am going to discuss. I dont want charlie to feel like he cant share his project ...I am not going to elaborate on our processes.

OK Glen.. I'll just wait for more pictures.

[Herblenny]

Question to Glen:

1. Do you require brand new rotors to be used for your proprietary clearance?

2. Still use OEM seals or other special seals for the proprietary work you do?

Hope you could answer these couple of questions.

[glenrx7]

Originally Posted by Herblenny

Question to Glen:

1. Do you require brand new rotors to be used for your proprietary clearance?

2. Still use OEM seals or other special seals for the proprietary work you do?

Hope you could answer these couple of questions.

1. used are fine

2 Yes, oem seals work great

[glenrx7]

I do not use anything other than oem. Unless it is a apex seal and that is only ceramics from Ianetti

So apex seals are either mazda or ceramic from Ienetti , the rest is oem only

[Herblenny]

I just asked my builder (Luis) and he explained it to me...

He gave me a link that I should share about clearancing..

Originally Posted by Racing Beat

Rotor Clearancing

A second concern for rotors used near or above 8,500 RPM is the clearance between the sides of the rotor and the side housings. The construction and assembly of the rotor and rotor gear is such that both sides of the rotor have a portion, referred to as the “land”, that protrudes out from the rotor “side” several thousandths of an inch. For measuring purposes, detailed below, the “land” on the side of the rotor containing the rotor gear is the face of the rotor gear itself. The “land” on the opposite side of the rotor is the circular portion of the rotor surrounded by the inner oil seal. These features need to be taken into consideration when clearancing the rotor.

The first step in preparing a rotor for clearancing is to measure the thickness of the rotor housing being paired with the rotor at eight evenly spaced points to determine the minimum or narrowest point of thickness of the rotor housing. This minimum thickness becomes the “base line” for the calculation process.

Now, measure the thickness of the rotor and rotor gear assembly at three different points from the “land” on one side to the “land” on the other side. Select the maximum, or widest, thickness of this assembly and subtract this number from the base line number previously obtained. We have found that the following clearances work well:

Clearance between side housings and rotor maximum “land” width:
12A Engines (.009” +/- .001”)
or 13B Engines (.010” +/- .001”)

“Land” protrusion from rotor side: .0055” +/- .0005” (each side). This “land” clearance is obtained by machining away material from the “side” of the rotor, thus leaving the “land” extending from the rotor “side” by the specified amount.

It is entirely possible, based on the production tolerances we have seen over the years that you may need to remove as little as .001” to. 002” from each surface to achieve the recommended clearance. In other words, some of the clearance required already exists.

I was told my by builder that its not necessary on engines that does not run high RPM for extended period of time. And like most things, race and street prep pros and cons should be highly considered before doing such mod.

[charlies7]

Wow, missed alot of post.

Thanks for butting in Glen.

Phil I plan on road racing the car and beating the crap out of it. (In a spirited kind of way )

[Herblenny]

Originally Posted by charlies7

Phil I plan on road racing the car and beating the crap out of it. (In a spirited kind of way )

Cool, I guess than you need what Glen did..

[glenrx7]

See there we go . Phill now you have the info you wanted and i dont have to give up out propreitary numbers to explain myself, basic idea is the same yet our numbers are different