auxiliary injection-who here has it?

[speedjunkie]

I haven't seen much discussion on this forum about it, just curious who has it, which system it is, what you're running exactly, etc.

On a side note, I have an FJO water/methanol injection kit that I'm about to install, and I was looking for a place to mount the pump. It's a Shurflow pump, and I was thinking about mounting it near the diff but I'm not sure it will fit there. Anyone have any suggestions?

[SPICcnmFD]

I'm running a Coolingmist basic kit. Pump is mounted where the washer fluid tank was, and the tank is mounted where the battery was.

I have no idea if it will fit by the diff I can't remember how much room is back there, but I do know the Shurflow pump was a good bit larger than I expected it to be.

[speedjunkie]

Yeah it's a good size pump. I want to keep my washer bottle, and I have an Odyssey PC680 battery mounted up front next to the VMIC, so I don't have room for the tank up there, but I should have plenty of room to mount the pump there...or rather under where the stock battery is. My tank will be in the front part of the hatch, under the strut bar, so my only concern with mounting the pump up front will be that it's so far away from the tank, but I'm not sure that matters. Not to mention the fact that it would be right next to the engine, the huge heat pump itself. The diff puts off some heat too, but not as much as the engine, and if I mount it next to the diff it will get plenty of air running over it.

[Chadwick]

I have the AEM kit installed, switching over to the Devils Own kit this weekend. The AEM uses the 150psi Sure Flow pump. The Devils Own kit is 250 psi pump, not sure who makes the pump but I wanted the better atomization from the smaller jet/higher pressure.

I use the washer tank and have the pump mounted inside the under tray. Most kits will work better if the pump is below the tank. Makes it easier for the pump to prime.

Dan

[speedjunkie]

I might just mount the pump in the spare tire well since my spare won't even work for me anymore haha, but I'd be afraid it wouldn't get enough airflow to cool it there. I have some pretty thick metal to build a bracket to mount it next to the diff though, so I might just do that.

[SPICcnmFD]

I don't see airflow being a problem in the spare tire well, unless you keep it covered up for long periods of use. If you are tracking or dragging it all the covers are out and air is moving around back there.

[speedjunkie]

Well it will mainly be used on the street, and I'll have it covered with the carpet, that's what I mean. I'm not sure it will get enough air during every day driving.

When I FINALLY get the car on the track, I'll most likely be gutting it for the day, yes.

[dudemaaan]

I have a mechanically (boost) driven WI preturbo kit that i built myself. Flows 500cc at 20 psi boost pressure. Activated at 8 psi.pushing around 500 hp, knock low 20's. 11:1 afr, 10 degrees leading timing. Plan to run 25 psi.

[dudemaaan]

I'm now running 23 psi and 575cc of water. I'll make a thread describing my setup. I'm considering building them and selling them for other people too.

[jkstill]

I installed this Coolingmist trunk mount kit:
http://www.coolingmist.com/detailmai...ricooltrunkMAF

This uses the varicool controller and the 150 PSI pump.

I am using the smaller of the 2 supplied injectors, which is about 400cc/minute.

Haven't used it on a track day yet, but have used it on quite a few autocrosses.

The FD motor runs really clean after a couple autox runs.

[Smokey]

I use the basic coolingmist trunk kit, 150psi pump, no vari-controller, just turns on at 10psi. Using the 380cc nozzle (M5). I'm using it purely as a safety device, I'm not "tuning up" for it.

I like that the trunk mount was pretty simple and straight forward. So far I've been plenty happy with it.

[speedjunkie]

Alright guys, so what liquid is everyone running? I've seen a couple of you mention it, but it hasn't really been touched on a whole lot. I did more research on this several months ago, but the information is on my laptop that crashed. I had kinda settled on running mostly water with maybe about 10% meth, maybe even less. Mostly just because I'm not planning on tuning up with it (that way if the system fails it won't blow the engine), and because distilled water is readily available and cheaper than running full meth/etc. I've read about some pros and cons about different liquids/mixes, some of which may not be true, but I'll start the list below. Please add and/or correct anything you see fit.

Methanol
Pros-
-Cools intake air more than water, but not combustion chamber
-Allows tuning up (substitute for fuel)
-Won't freeze in the winter
Cons-
-Costs money, but still cheaper than denatured alcohol
-Not as readily available as water or denatured alcohol
-Corrosive to the system, especially if ran 100%
-I've HEARD if it's left in the tank for a while it will turn to a jelly-like substance, not sure how true that is.

Denatured Alcohol
Pros-
-Not corrosive like methanol
-More readily available than meth
-Close to the same octane as meth, and equal benefits
-Won't freeze in the winter
-Allows tuning up
Cons-
-Much more expensive than meth and water

Water
Pros-
-Free from the tap (if you're that brave), or distilled for fairly cheap
-Readily available
-Cools combustion chamber more than meth, but not intake charge
Cons-
-Will freeze in the winter
-Cannot tune up, usually lose HP

I've read about people using HEET (99% Isopropanol) also. And it's been suggested that I use distilled water most of the time, and add just a little meth or whatever for the winter time. However, I won't be driving the car in the winter anyway because it's too hard to control in the snow/ice (and that was with lower HP, before adding the 500R). I'm still concerned about the fluids freezing in the pump and lines though. I've also seen people run windshield washer fluid, but from what I hear it leaves residue and that wouldn't exactly be good for the injector.

[dudemaaan]

I'll chime in and correct/add a few things.

Water if atomized correctly, and if running a proper ignition system won't cause a loss in power. Many people see an increase in power.

Water CAN be tuned up on, either by running more timing, leaner mixtures, or higher boost. I'm currently running 23 psi on water alone with no knock. I run tap water, which is not being brave just smart. There is nothing in it that is any more contaminated then gasoline from the gas station. I run a filter and regularly check my nozzle.

Other points to consider, meth/alcohol you need to run 2-3 times more for the same knock suppressing effects as water. But alcohol does cool the intake charge better.

Another drawback to alcohol AI systems is they require removing fuel from the maps. If the injection system fails, the motor is toast. This means you need a very reliable setup, which if you plan on pushing the limits with any aux system it should be reliable. I've had my system not functioning at least once at 23 psi, but due to my fairly conservative tune and only using water my motor was fine.

Another good option is to run 50/50, it has the best of both worlds and is more of a compromise between water or alcohol. Benefits include less usage over alcohol (smaller nozzle), better intake cooling over water, good knock suppressing effects, cost per volume is less then meth/alcohol, and less fuel pulled from the maps. I' plan to experiment with it sometime but I prefer free right now.

I'm guessing the "denatured alcohol" would be Ethanol, as thats the other popular choice for AI.

Points:
Ethanol has a flash point of 55.4* F
Methanol has flash point of 51.8*F

A gallon of ethanol = .........84,400 Btu..............(gasoline =125,000 Btu)
Gallon of methanol = .........62,800 Btu.............. (E85 =90,500 Btu)

Octane rating of ethanol is..129 RON..........(gasoline = 91-95 RON)
Octane of methanol is........123 RON................. (E85 = 105 RON)

What this means is it takes more methanol then ethanol to reach the same heat value (btu), and to raise the octane level of the mixture to a certain point (injecting more). It also means that the air temperatures will be reduced more, both due to the lower flash point, and the requirement for more of the fuel to be used.

Hope that helps add some more info on the subject.

[speedjunkie]

Thanks for your input!

So in your opinion, if using a 50/50 mix, would you suggest denatured alcohol (ethanol) instead of methanol?

I've had my system not functioning at least once at 23 psi, but due to my fairly conservative tune and only using water my motor was fine.

That's EXACTLY why I would like to run just water.

Another good option is to run 50/50, it has the best of both worlds and is more of a compromise between water or alcohol. Benefits include less usage over alcohol (smaller nozzle), better intake cooling over water, good knock suppressing effects, cost per volume is less then meth/alcohol, and less fuel pulled from the maps.

But THIS is why I wanna run 50/50 haha.

And I was not aware you could tune up on water either.

[dudemaaan]

If i was to run 50/50 i would probably go with meth and water since it's easier to come by. The corrosive effects wouldnt be as bad with a mix, but i would still find a system thats meant for it. If i wanted to run alcohol anyway.
.
I don't rely on every small tweek to make power, if i can keep my air temps reasonable and knock down i use more boost to make the power. Over 500 hp with a reliable tune is good enough for me. I'm not going to chase after another 15 hp and reduce reliability.