Crimping vs. Soldering

My5ABaby · 01-06-2011, 10:55 AM

Throughout the years I've made various electrical connections (who with a 7 hasn't), but have never really known what I was doing other than some brief instructions from friends.

So my question is, what's the right way to connect two wires together?

I've read on the soldering vs. crimping debate and am leaning towards crimping being the proper way to connect two wires. However, I am finding all kinds of mixed results as to what kind of connectors to use, what kind of crimpers crimpers, insulated vs. non-insulated, etc. I've also ran across Posi-Tite connectors that seem quite interesting.

Maybe some scenarios will help.

I'm installing a new sensor in the engine bay and need to make a connection in the engine bay.

A second 12v outlet in the cabin. I have one wire running off an existing positive connection and one coming from the new outlet. How should I connect those two?

Installing a new EMS system. What kind of connections should I use there?

I prefer to leave everything so it's easily replaceable so not using a butt style connector is a preference. Although it would be good info to know the very best method, a budget method would also be good. I can't afford $400 crimpers and connectors that cost $20 each.

***TitaniumTT*** · 01-06-2011, 11:23 AM

If you call just about anyone that builds harness's, they should all tell you the same thing - CRIMP>SOLDER. In ANY circumstance. I questioned this even when dealing with the heavier gauge battery type cable... bigger than 8ga, and they say the same holds true. So I went out and dropped $80 on a lug crimper. MOST of the crimpers that you'll need are going to be around the $50 range if you hunt around. Most of the crimps I bought were from either Terminal Supply Co, Waytek. There was one co that had a REALLY nice buttsplice connector, I can't remember the name of it, I'll have to look at it when I'm in the garage next. The only time crimps are going to run you more than that are going to be in the mil-spec variety and I've been told that there are other/cheaper alternative than the Davis Manufacturing crimps.

So, you had mentioned the engine bay sensor. If at all possible I would cut the wire to length, and use the proper connector pins. You can usually crimp them with a Metri-pack style crimper. I use the metri-pak connector for metri and weather pack terminals. It can be found here
http://order.waytekwire.com/productd...%20PACK%20150/
but I know I searched around and found it for $80

If that doesn't work becuase the wire can't be extended, or its a mazda terminal, then you need to butt-splice them in. I personally, when wiring a car, use the un-insulated butt-splice stuff and just heat shrink it. I buy poly-olefin non insulated by the 100' spool and use that everywhere but the engine bay. Unless it's going to be loomed over with something. In the engine bay in an unprotected situation, I buy the adhesive lined stuff. If I'm wiring a boat, I use the retardedly expensive heat-shrink terminals. The only reason I do this is becuase most of the boats I wire are commercial and need to be coast-guard inspected. The CG generally doesn't approve anything that isn't individually heatshrunk unless it's an approved OE harness.

Connectors can be found here -
http://order.waytekwire.com/products...%20Connectors/
Crimps, these are the ones I'm not sure about, I paid $60 for them, will have to ge the name. It's a local co up in North Haven CT too. But, they're along these lines.
http://order.waytekwire.com/productd...IMPING%20TOOL/
except I paid $50. They do non-insulated butt-splice connectors. I also have a set of insulated butt-splice connectors for the marine stuff.

In your second situation, two wires on one side, one wire on the other. There is a special connector for that. Terminal supply co sells them as well and I believe a little cheaper. Either way, here is what they look like.
http://order.waytekwire.com/products...%20Connectors/
Basically, you would use one that has an 18-22ga (red) on one side, and a 14-16ga (blue) on the other. The factory wire would be cut and stripped. The additional wire would be spliced with the factory and then inserted into the blue cavity and crimped. Don't forget to put your heat-shrink on. Then the other side of the factory wire inserted into the red cavity and then crimped as well. Heat the shirnk and you're done.

I've had the solder vs crimp debate with alot of people. I've never had a crimp fail. I've had solder joints fail. I've also over crimped a wire and cut the strand, but that was only once.

RETed · 01-06-2011, 11:30 AM

I use a set of MSD crimpers with the replacable dies.
With the three other option die sets, you can handle 90% of the crimp connections out there.
These include insulated and non-insulated - "Duestch" / "AMP lug" / "AMP pin".
This MSD crimper is also ratcheting, which will not release until you hit the proper compression.
The crimp tool + optional 3 sets of dies should come out to under $200.
(The crimp tool already comes with the "spark plug wire" set of dies.

-Ted

FerociousP · 01-06-2011, 11:53 AM

I second the crimping... if done properly. I prefer the un-insulated splices, crimp each side twice (using cheap crimpers), and heatshrink. Way cheaper and only a little more work than using heatshrink insulated connectors.

I'd like to find a good pair of crimpers ($50-100max) that I can be confident with and will hold up over time. Can the elctrical gurus post their favorites like Titanium and Reted above?

My5ABaby · 01-06-2011, 12:39 PM

Great info thus far!

What size heat shrink would be good to order?
1/4th for 8ga
3/16th for 10-14ga
1/8th for 16+ga?

Does anyone pack dielectrical grease in their connectors before crimping/heat shrinking?

Like these Ted?

https://www.msdignition.com/Products...et_Action.aspx

My5ABaby · 01-06-2011, 12:49 PM

Looking at the wiring, there's a lot of choices.

GPT primary wire
TWP primary wire
GXL cross-link wire
SGT battery wire
SGX battery wire
SXL cross-link wire
TXL cross-link wire

I found this:

Quote:

When in doubt, use 125°C rated TXL, GXL, SXL, or SGX wire insulation for engine compartment and general wiring. The only difference between these is the thickness of the insulation and cost, with the thicker being the more expensive. They are all insulated with crosslinked polyethylene, which is almost as heat resistant as teflon, but cheaper and much tougher.

TXL is the wire used by vehicle manufacturers for most applications, and is the thinnest, lightest, and lowest cost of these insulations. It is tough and long lasting.

GXL is an intermediate insulation,with thickness and cost between TXL and SXL.

SXL is the second thickest of the crosslinked polyethylene insulations, and suggested for use in the heavier gauges, or where some additional protection from possible mechanical damage is needed.

SGX is the thickest of the crosslinked polyethylene insulations. SGX is particularly recommended for battery cable, because of the rather spectacular consequences of a shorted battery cable.

GPT is a PVC insulated wire rated at 85°C used for general chassis wiring, and should not be used in the engine compartment of your car according to the SAE J1128 spec. It's not as tough or heat resistant as TXL or GXL insulation, but it is considerably cheaper. This is the wire found in retail stores.

Sound about right?

If so, I would presumably go with TXL for most things, SXL in high heat areas (oxygen sensor wire or something), and SGX for battery cable?

RETed · 01-06-2011, 02:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by My5ABaby

Like these Ted?

https://www.msdignition.com/Products...et_Action.aspx

Yep, that's the ones I got.
Summit Racing or Jegs is going to give you the best price.
Make sure you order the optional dies.
AMP lug = butt connectors, spade / ring / male / female insulated
AMP pin = non-insulated
Deutsch = almost all your sensor pin connectors including Weatherpack in a pinch

The price sounds high, but it's a well-made tool and will make all your crimp connectors professional.
You're going to kick yourself for not getting it sooner.

-Ted

RETed · 01-06-2011, 02:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by My5ABaby

Does anyone pack dielectrical grease in their connectors before crimping/heat shrinking?

Not normally...

Weatherpack / Metripack connectors usually have silicone plugs in them.
Deustch also using a single silicone block to back the connector housing (no matter how many wires).

These are usually more than enough to handle automotive environs.

-Ted

***TitaniumTT*** · 01-06-2011, 05:43 PM

Ted's right, you'll kick yourself. I just didn't want to be bothered changing dies all the time. I figured in the past I would crimp a butt, then a pin.... than an insulated butt.... so why spend the time changing dies? i just one crimper for each and have loved them ever since.

I don't use the grease before crimping, but I do smear a little on the terminals before plugging them together.

FC Zach · 01-06-2011, 07:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RETed

Yep, that's the ones I got.
Summit Racing or Jegs is going to give you the best price.
Make sure you order the optional dies.
AMP lug = butt connectors, spade / ring / male / female insulated
AMP pin = non-insulated
Deutsch = almost all your sensor pin connectors including Weatherpack in a pinch

The price sounds high, but it's a well-made tool and will make all your crimp connectors professional.
You're going to kick yourself for not getting it sooner.

-Ted

I have those and absolutely love them. I use DMCs at work and think those are precise aand awesome but I just can't see spending that much money on a set for the house when the MSD set does almost the same at a fraction of the price.

mazpower · 01-06-2011, 07:49 PM

This thread rocks.

I just ordered a set of the MSD crimpers with the dies. I've soldered in the past but after talking with Brian and opening my eyes to better ways of doing things, I'm gonna start crimping my harness connections.

My5ABaby · 01-07-2011, 11:11 AM

According to that:
1/16 = 24, 22
3/32 = 20
1/8 = 18
3/16 = 16, 14, 12
1/4 = 10, 8
3/8 = 8, 6
1/2 = 6, 4
3/4 = 4, 2
1 = 2

FerociousP · 01-07-2011, 11:20 AM

Future archive material. I've been meaning to create a new electrical bag. This will be a good start.

***TitaniumTT*** · 01-07-2011, 11:42 AM

Problem is the butt-connectors are thicker than the wire, so anything smaller than 1/8" is useless except to repair nicks in the sheathing. I buy 1/8", 1/4", and 1/2" and then heavy ass triple wall adhesive lined for battery cables

RETed · 01-07-2011, 12:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FC Zach

I have those and absolutely love them. I use DMCs at work and think those are precise aand awesome but I just can't see spending that much money on a set for the house when the MSD set does almost the same at a fraction of the price.

Yep.
I have several DMC crimpers (and turrets) just to handle the solid, machined Deutsch pins.
At over $200 a pop each crimper, it pricey, but they sure do a nice job!

Yes, the MSD crimp tool is a bargain compared to the DMC stuff.
If you look hard enough, there are even "generic" versions of the MSD crimp tool (I think Summit Racing makes one?) that's even cheaper if you're trying to save some bucks.

I've never been too bothered with changing the dies out myself.

-Ted

01-06-2011, 10:55 AM	#1
My5ABaby Sigh..... Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Murfreesboro, TN iTrader: (6) Posts: 2,377 Rep Power: 19	Crimping vs. Soldering Throughout the years I've made various electrical connections (who with a 7 hasn't), but have never really known what I was doing other than some brief instructions from friends. So my question is, what's the right way to connect two wires together? I've read on the soldering vs. crimping debate and am leaning towards crimping being the proper way to connect two wires. However, I am finding all kinds of mixed results as to what kind of connectors to use, what kind of crimpers crimpers, insulated vs. non-insulated, etc. I've also ran across Posi-Tite connectors that seem quite interesting. Maybe some scenarios will help. I'm installing a new sensor in the engine bay and need to make a connection in the engine bay. A second 12v outlet in the cabin. I have one wire running off an existing positive connection and one coming from the new outlet. How should I connect those two? Installing a new EMS system. What kind of connections should I use there? I prefer to leave everything so it's easily replaceable so not using a butt style connector is a preference. Although it would be good info to know the very best method, a budget method would also be good. I can't afford $400 crimpers and connectors that cost $20 each. __________________ 1986 Sport: 132k miles, 5A (Sapphire Blue Metallic), Tokico Blues, Racing Beat Springs, Custom LED tailights (only S4 LED tails in the world), SSR Mark II, Racing Beat exhaust, S5 black interior, Rotary Resurrection rebuild at 120k miles Community Service Manual RotorWiki "Imagination costs nothing; we could build square locomotives or fly to Mars" - Felix Wankel Yesterday is history, tomorrow is a mystery, but today is a gift. That is why it is called the "present."

01-06-2011, 11:23 AM	#2
*TitaniumTT* Test Whore - Admin Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Right Behind you son iTrader: (4) Posts: 4,581 Rep Power: 10	If you call just about anyone that builds harness's, they should all tell you the same thing - CRIMP>SOLDER. In ANY circumstance. I questioned this even when dealing with the heavier gauge battery type cable... bigger than 8ga, and they say the same holds true. So I went out and dropped $80 on a lug crimper. MOST of the crimpers that you'll need are going to be around the $50 range if you hunt around. Most of the crimps I bought were from either Terminal Supply Co, Waytek. There was one co that had a REALLY nice buttsplice connector, I can't remember the name of it, I'll have to look at it when I'm in the garage next. The only time crimps are going to run you more than that are going to be in the mil-spec variety and I've been told that there are other/cheaper alternative than the Davis Manufacturing crimps. So, you had mentioned the engine bay sensor. If at all possible I would cut the wire to length, and use the proper connector pins. You can usually crimp them with a Metri-pack style crimper. I use the metri-pak connector for metri and weather pack terminals. It can be found here http://order.waytekwire.com/productd...%20PACK%20150/ but I know I searched around and found it for $80 If that doesn't work becuase the wire can't be extended, or its a mazda terminal, then you need to butt-splice them in. I personally, when wiring a car, use the un-insulated butt-splice stuff and just heat shrink it. I buy poly-olefin non insulated by the 100' spool and use that everywhere but the engine bay. Unless it's going to be loomed over with something. In the engine bay in an unprotected situation, I buy the adhesive lined stuff. If I'm wiring a boat, I use the retardedly expensive heat-shrink terminals. The only reason I do this is becuase most of the boats I wire are commercial and need to be coast-guard inspected. The CG generally doesn't approve anything that isn't individually heatshrunk unless it's an approved OE harness. Connectors can be found here - http://order.waytekwire.com/products...%20Connectors/ Crimps, these are the ones I'm not sure about, I paid $60 for them, will have to ge the name. It's a local co up in North Haven CT too. But, they're along these lines. http://order.waytekwire.com/productd...IMPING%20TOOL/ except I paid $50. They do non-insulated butt-splice connectors. I also have a set of insulated butt-splice connectors for the marine stuff. In your second situation, two wires on one side, one wire on the other. There is a special connector for that. Terminal supply co sells them as well and I believe a little cheaper. Either way, here is what they look like. http://order.waytekwire.com/products...%20Connectors/ Basically, you would use one that has an 18-22ga (red) on one side, and a 14-16ga (blue) on the other. The factory wire would be cut and stripped. The additional wire would be spliced with the factory and then inserted into the blue cavity and crimped. Don't forget to put your heat-shrink on. Then the other side of the factory wire inserted into the red cavity and then crimped as well. Heat the shirnk and you're done. I've had the solder vs crimp debate with alot of people. I've never had a crimp fail. I've had solder joints fail. I've also over crimped a wire and cut the strand, but that was only once. __________________ -The Angry Stig- DGRR 2009, 2011, 2012 & 2013 - Best FC DEALS GAP!! WOOHOOOO!!!!! 2015 Audi S4 - Samantha - Zero Brap S4 2004 RX8 - Jocelyn - 196rwhp, 19mpg fuel to noise converter 2000 Jeep Cherokee Sport - Wifey mobile - Now with 2.5" OME lift and 30" BFG AT KO's! So it begins 1998 Jeep Cherokee - 5 spd, 4" lift, 33" BFG's - Rotary Tow Vehicle 1988 'Vert - In progress 1988 FC Coupe - Gretchen -The attention whore BEAST! I'm a sick individual, what's wrong with you? I'm pure Evil I'm still insane, in the best possible way. I think Brian's idea of romance is using lube. Your rage caused the meteor strike in Russia. The Antichrist would be proud of his minion. You win with your thread. Most everything It's a truck with a steel gate on the back. Just a statement of fact Motec M820, AIM dash, ported 13B-RE Cosmo, 6-spd trans, 4.3 Torsen, custom twin wg fully divided mani, Custom 4" split into 2x 3" exhaust, Custom HMIC, Custom custom custom custom I like to welder stuff.... No Bolt-ons allowed. Dyno'ed @ Speed1 Tuned by me - 405rwhp on WG.... WM50 cuming soon. *-Angry Motherfcker Mode ENGAGED-**

01-06-2011, 11:53 AM	#4
FerociousP I-had-a-bad-experience... Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: M'boro iTrader: (2) Posts: 1,046 Rep Power: 18	I second the crimping... if done properly. I prefer the un-insulated splices, crimp each side twice (using cheap crimpers), and heatshrink. Way cheaper and only a little more work than using heatshrink insulated connectors. I'd like to find a good pair of crimpers ($50-100max) that I can be confident with and will hold up over time. Can the elctrical gurus post their favorites like Titanium and Reted above? __________________ '15 Juke Nismo '06 MX-5 GT SOLD '04 S Silver RX-8 GT Track Day Use SOLD '90 Black TII vert w/ Sprint RE stock port/turbo DD dyno (242.6whp@5500rpm @12psi 8psi@redline) and (250ftlbtq@4800rpm @13psi) SOLD '89 GTUs 6p TII SOLD, '87 sport SOLD, '79 SA stock SOLD '91 B2600i 4x4 w/ Rx-8 LSD SOLD

01-06-2011, 12:39 PM	#5
My5ABaby Sigh..... Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Murfreesboro, TN iTrader: (6) Posts: 2,377 Rep Power: 19	Great info thus far! What size heat shrink would be good to order? 1/4th for 8ga 3/16th for 10-14ga 1/8th for 16+ga? Does anyone pack dielectrical grease in their connectors before crimping/heat shrinking? Like these Ted? https://www.msdignition.com/Products...et_Action.aspx __________________ 1986 Sport: 132k miles, 5A (Sapphire Blue Metallic), Tokico Blues, Racing Beat Springs, Custom LED tailights (only S4 LED tails in the world), SSR Mark II, Racing Beat exhaust, S5 black interior, Rotary Resurrection rebuild at 120k miles Community Service Manual RotorWiki "Imagination costs nothing; we could build square locomotives or fly to Mars" - Felix Wankel Yesterday is history, tomorrow is a mystery, but today is a gift. That is why it is called the "present."

01-06-2011, 05:43 PM	#9
*TitaniumTT* Test Whore - Admin Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Right Behind you son iTrader: (4) Posts: 4,581 Rep Power: 10	Ted's right, you'll kick yourself. I just didn't want to be bothered changing dies all the time. I figured in the past I would crimp a butt, then a pin.... than an insulated butt.... so why spend the time changing dies? i just one crimper for each and have loved them ever since. I don't use the grease before crimping, but I do smear a little on the terminals before plugging them together. __________________ -The Angry Stig- DGRR 2009, 2011, 2012 & 2013 - Best FC DEALS GAP!! WOOHOOOO!!!!! 2015 Audi S4 - Samantha - Zero Brap S4 2004 RX8 - Jocelyn - 196rwhp, 19mpg fuel to noise converter 2000 Jeep Cherokee Sport - Wifey mobile - Now with 2.5" OME lift and 30" BFG AT KO's! So it begins 1998 Jeep Cherokee - 5 spd, 4" lift, 33" BFG's - Rotary Tow Vehicle 1988 'Vert - In progress 1988 FC Coupe - Gretchen -The attention whore BEAST! I'm a sick individual, what's wrong with you? I'm pure Evil I'm still insane, in the best possible way. I think Brian's idea of romance is using lube. Your rage caused the meteor strike in Russia. The Antichrist would be proud of his minion. You win with your thread. Most everything It's a truck with a steel gate on the back. Just a statement of fact Motec M820, AIM dash, ported 13B-RE Cosmo, 6-spd trans, 4.3 Torsen, custom twin wg fully divided mani, Custom 4" split into 2x 3" exhaust, Custom HMIC, Custom custom custom custom I like to welder stuff.... No Bolt-ons allowed. Dyno'ed @ Speed1 Tuned by me - 405rwhp on WG.... WM50 cuming soon. *-Angry Motherfcker Mode ENGAGED-**

01-06-2011, 07:49 PM	#11
mazpower Rawr Bearclaw Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: The Souf iTrader: (1) Posts: 197 Rep Power: 17	This thread rocks. I just ordered a set of the MSD crimpers with the dies. I've soldered in the past but after talking with Brian and opening my eyes to better ways of doing things, I'm gonna start crimping my harness connections. __________________ Illicit Performance Rotary building, porting, tuning, chassis dyno services www.illicitperformance.com

01-07-2011, 11:11 AM	#12
My5ABaby Sigh..... Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Murfreesboro, TN iTrader: (6) Posts: 2,377 Rep Power: 19	According to that: 1/16 = 24, 22 3/32 = 20 1/8 = 18 3/16 = 16, 14, 12 1/4 = 10, 8 3/8 = 8, 6 1/2 = 6, 4 3/4 = 4, 2 1 = 2 __________________ 1986 Sport: 132k miles, 5A (Sapphire Blue Metallic), Tokico Blues, Racing Beat Springs, Custom LED tailights (only S4 LED tails in the world), SSR Mark II, Racing Beat exhaust, S5 black interior, Rotary Resurrection rebuild at 120k miles Community Service Manual RotorWiki "Imagination costs nothing; we could build square locomotives or fly to Mars" - Felix Wankel Yesterday is history, tomorrow is a mystery, but today is a gift. That is why it is called the "present."

01-07-2011, 11:20 AM	#13
FerociousP I-had-a-bad-experience... Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: M'boro iTrader: (2) Posts: 1,046 Rep Power: 18	Future archive material. I've been meaning to create a new electrical bag. This will be a good start. __________________ '15 Juke Nismo '06 MX-5 GT SOLD '04 S Silver RX-8 GT Track Day Use SOLD '90 Black TII vert w/ Sprint RE stock port/turbo DD dyno (242.6whp@5500rpm @12psi 8psi@redline) and (250ftlbtq@4800rpm @13psi) SOLD '89 GTUs 6p TII SOLD, '87 sport SOLD, '79 SA stock SOLD '91 B2600i 4x4 w/ Rx-8 LSD SOLD

01-07-2011, 11:42 AM	#14
*TitaniumTT* Test Whore - Admin Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Right Behind you son iTrader: (4) Posts: 4,581 Rep Power: 10	Problem is the butt-connectors are thicker than the wire, so anything smaller than 1/8" is useless except to repair nicks in the sheathing. I buy 1/8", 1/4", and 1/2" and then heavy ass triple wall adhesive lined for battery cables __________________ -The Angry Stig- DGRR 2009, 2011, 2012 & 2013 - Best FC DEALS GAP!! WOOHOOOO!!!!! 2015 Audi S4 - Samantha - Zero Brap S4 2004 RX8 - Jocelyn - 196rwhp, 19mpg fuel to noise converter 2000 Jeep Cherokee Sport - Wifey mobile - Now with 2.5" OME lift and 30" BFG AT KO's! So it begins 1998 Jeep Cherokee - 5 spd, 4" lift, 33" BFG's - Rotary Tow Vehicle 1988 'Vert - In progress 1988 FC Coupe - Gretchen -The attention whore BEAST! I'm a sick individual, what's wrong with you? I'm pure Evil I'm still insane, in the best possible way. I think Brian's idea of romance is using lube. Your rage caused the meteor strike in Russia. The Antichrist would be proud of his minion. You win with your thread. Most everything It's a truck with a steel gate on the back. Just a statement of fact Motec M820, AIM dash, ported 13B-RE Cosmo, 6-spd trans, 4.3 Torsen, custom twin wg fully divided mani, Custom 4" split into 2x 3" exhaust, Custom HMIC, Custom custom custom custom I like to welder stuff.... No Bolt-ons allowed. Dyno'ed @ Speed1 Tuned by me - 405rwhp on WG.... WM50 cuming soon. *-Angry Motherfcker Mode ENGAGED-**