1987 TII build for my son

jtbshaw · 10-03-2010, 10:02 PM

Well, after such a long time of not posting much about this, and my son didn't want to until now, we are finally showing a thread about the progress of the car.

This all started early 2009 and my 10 year old son (at that time) wanted he and I to build him something for when he turns 16. The 6 year project quickly became a finish as soon as we can. We even attempted to pull off making DGRR 2009, but due to certain difficulties we couldn't. The most contributing factor to the no show for DGRR was that I had to make the difficult decision to close my manufacturing and fabrication business during that time.

That was only the start of one of the most difficult times in our lives. Not only did I have to close, I had to relieve some good people of their jobs, I lost my income, and no job became available for me until November. We home school our kids (3, with #4 on the way as I type this

), but no income made it extremely tough. We drained our investments, savings, everything, etc...to make ends meet. The position that became available required a cross-country move from Alabama to here in South Dakota. We made the move and things have finally gotten back on track, as of May 2010.

All the while, the TII pretty much remained sitting. I should have sold it to help pay for groceries or bills, but I couldn't bring myself to part with it as this was supposed to be something for me and my son to build together. My son remained very understanding and a trooper about the delays.

Fast forward to today...the car is approximately 80% finished with a few big ticket items still left to do. So, without further adieu, here's the progression from start to as she sits today.

February 2009, this is how we get the car (thanks to Phil and Bryan @ BNR). Good foundation to start from with only minor fixes required. Supposedly, the engine has been rebuilt with only about 100 miles on it. Which after as much inspecting as can be done without going inside the engine, it appeared to be a fresh rebuild.

Only rusty spot on the car (I've cut it out and will weld in new metal):

Then we started stripping things and cleaning up the engine bay, prepping for the S5 bumper conversions and S5 mouldings, addition of a factory rear spoiler, etc...

S5 bumpers and factory rear spoiler are on, S4 moulding off and waiting on the newer S5 moulding, S5 tails waiting to go in:

New struts, Tanabe lowering springs, new cross drilled and slotted rotors, and EBC green pads at all four corners:

RB braided oil lines installed:

HID projector lamps in place (still awaiting the ballasts to be wired in), and FMIC mounted in place:

Bryan @ BNR hooked me up on a deal with his S5 turbo setup off of his gold TII (with all his goodies in there), semi-solid engine mounts can be seen here, stock flywheel in great shape but going back with a new Stage III clutch (I can't remember the brand right now since it has been over a year):

Then my son and I began discussing really where we would like to see the car heading and the end result. My son wanted some sort of military theme and for the TII to be completely different than most of what you see. Well, I suggested we do something that I am comfortable with and can teach him about something that is sort of fading away like many good things that we have had and is now gone........let's go carb and turbo. He liked the idea so off we went into it like two pioneers. I know certain carbs pretty well, but had no idea of the overall challenge this would ultimately (and still is) putting me through.
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jtbshaw · 10-03-2010, 10:19 PM

.... to continue on, we still had lots to do. Build the tubing for the FMIC, address the ECU/timing/fueling/etc..., seats (since the car didn't have any), cooling (since the factory radiator showed signs of leakage), and a bunch of other stuff. We decided to ditch the items in the center of the dash, except for the HVAC controls.....no radio or cig light basically. This would provide a convenient place for gauges and switches.

We removed the ECU and engine harness which left me without any fueling or ignition. The fueling wasn't any big deal until the factory tank turned up rusty inside. Since we are going carb, why not just build a custom cell. So I modified a Jeg's 15 gallon aluminum cell to fit in the stock locatiion and allow fillups to be the same as a stock tank. Getting started:

Finished up tig welding everything, showing the stock fuel sender location, venting in the middle, stock input/vent tube in the stock location, and -10 fuel supply and -8 return line fittings:

Custom oil filler neck that I built to accomadate the FMIC tubing (wait, a distributor on a FC????...more to come on that later):

FMIC tubing built (only a few couplers needed now):

Rotary Shack DCOE blow through carb and plenum installed, and the Fluidyne radiator mounted, and FMIC tubing test fitted:

Gilmer drive setup installed:

I'll post more as I have discovered many of the pics are not uploaded. More to come soon.................

***TitaniumTT*** · 10-04-2010, 07:35 PM

FIRST!

Finally the long awaited build thread! Congrats Todd. I had no idea the hardships you went through, sorry to hear about that. I also didn't know your son was that young! You're creating a monster! I got a ride in a Ferrari 348 for my 12th b-day, its been a 20 year addiction since.

Congrats again brotha, she looks like a beaut! Can't wait to see her in 34 days

By the way guys, Todd was the inspiration and lead behind my custom fuel cell.

jtbshaw · 10-04-2010, 08:25 PM

Thanks B. It's been a good build. However, as of lately, this thing has pushed me. I can't seem to get the timing right, no matter what I do. All of my old school tricks are not working, nothing! She'll fire up, but she's not timed right. She sounds sick, but not bad engine kind of sick. It's gotta be something with the DLIDFIS ignition, timing, or both.

Me and another friend that are having similar rotary woes have even mentioned lately of pulling the rotary stuff and going with something reciprocating. Just can't do it though. At this point of having 24 years of working on these engines/cars, I guess it is safe to say rotary for life.

Thanks for the props on the fuel cell. I'm looking forward to seeing those RX8 seats in your FC also.

Back on the build, I took today off from work, relaxed and got some much needed rest, so nothing has been uploaded. I will update the thread soon with more details and photos.

Thanks again, B. I'll see you in about a month. Bring you some warm clothes. We are already seeing 30s at night.

speedjunkie · 10-21-2010, 01:45 AM

Nice work! Good luck with the rest of the project.

prrex4ever · 10-22-2010, 06:23 PM

Awesome father/ son project. Looking great, good luck with her.

jtbshaw · 10-23-2010, 09:58 AM

Thanks speedjunkie and prrex. I will post an update sometime next week. I am travelling for work and I hope this is my last stint out on the road for this year. This 1-2 weeks out of each month is severely slowing the progress. We will get back on it soon. I have updated photos, just have to upload and type out everything. Look for the update soon.

jtbshaw · 11-09-2010, 02:00 PM

We have been able to confirm that the engine is solid and healthy. We acquired a Mazda digital rotary engine compression tester that shows that the car has a good heart.

After much reading and confirming that our timing is set correctly and the DLIDFIS is firing nicely and correctly, the carb is just not in sync with everything else. Talked to a couple of buddies that are really familiar with the Webers and they gave us some pointers which has improved things. It appears that we have to play around with the jetting now to get everything dialed in.

Other than those things, not much has been done to the car. Still have some wire tucking to do, install most of my gauges, get the interior back together, finish out the exhaust, then a whole bunch of other stuff.

We got her out of the barn for a little while and gave her a bath. We also noticed that I didn't put in the above details that the driver's front fender has been replaced with a new one. But we still have to weld in some replacement metal over the right rear where we cut out the rusted through area. We also changed out the Tial BOV with a old school HKS BOV.

Here's a few pics of how she sits today (mostly). Right after her bath:

***TitaniumTT*** · 11-09-2010, 10:23 PM

NICE!!! I can't wait to see this ride. You'll have to educate me on the ignition system when I get out there.

Would the location of the webers have an effect on them? Meaning if they're meant to be mounted vertically, the float bowls won't work properly....

jtbshaw · 11-10-2010, 07:45 AM

Absolutely, it does B. If this was a IDA, DCD, etc... it certainly wouldn't perform properly. This is a blow through 45mm DCOE and it is designed to run in the configuration you see above. I just have to play with the jetting and adjustments to dial it in.

There's all sorts of demo and renovation stuff going on at our house, and part of that is in the room I had planned for you to have. I will have somewhere for you to sleep when you get here though.

***Herblenny*** · 11-10-2010, 08:04 AM

Awesome Build Todd!!! Looking great!

jtbshaw · 11-10-2010, 08:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Herblenny

Awesome Build Todd!!! Looking great!

Thanks Phil. Looks a good bit different from the last time you saw it ehh?

NoDOHC · 11-10-2010, 11:41 PM

I like that alternator belt, it looks like it was meant to run a blower (supercharger).

Cool looking project - What a car to get at 16...

Looking good!

jtbshaw · 11-11-2010, 12:07 AM

Yep, the good ole Gilmer drive setup. Everytime I build one of these engines, I always ditch the v-belt setups and go with a 6-groove serpentine or a Gilmer drive. It makes an interesting sound. At idle, it sounds like I have a blower on there, rev it up and then the turbo whistle takes over.

The car will be painted OD green with some small things stenciled on the sides and maybe some small decals. The seats have been recovered for some time now in a similar (but softer) material that the old OD green duffle bags used to be. Since my son was about 2, we have called him Elliot Moose, from the children's book. He's a sizable kid (11 years old, 5'-5", and 145lbs, and wears a size 10.5 men's shoe) so the name "Moose" just has kind of stayed with him. Since this is a rotary, I had "Rotary Moose" embroidered into the headrest with a cool moose image I found.

The interior will be free of luxuries, but more function than anything. Just as something military would be. A good bit of carbon fiber will be inside, with several gauges and switches to control and monitor things.

Here's a close-up image of the seats:

And just a cool shifter knob I picked up for him in summer 2009 to go along with the military theme:

***TitaniumTT*** · 11-11-2010, 07:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jtbshaw

Absolutely, it does B. If this was a IDA, DCD, etc... it certainly wouldn't perform properly. This is a blow through 45mm DCOE and it is designed to run in the configuration you see above. I just have to play with the jetting and adjustments to dial it in.

There's all sorts of demo and renovation stuff going on at our house, and part of that is in the room I had planned for you to have. I will have somewhere for you to sleep when you get here though.

That's awesome Todd, thanks so much. Looking forward to it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jtbshaw

And just a cool shifter knob I picked up for him in summer 2009 to go along with the military theme:

I like how the Moose is looking out the window on both sides, nice little touch.

And that is probably the coolest non-stock shifter I have EVER seen... just awesome Todd

10-03-2010, 10:02 PM	#1
jtbshaw ORD - Old Rotary Dude Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Pelham, AL iTrader: (3) Posts: 319 Rep Power: 17	1987 TII build for my son Well, after such a long time of not posting much about this, and my son didn't want to until now, we are finally showing a thread about the progress of the car. This all started early 2009 and my 10 year old son (at that time) wanted he and I to build him something for when he turns 16. The 6 year project quickly became a finish as soon as we can. We even attempted to pull off making DGRR 2009, but due to certain difficulties we couldn't. The most contributing factor to the no show for DGRR was that I had to make the difficult decision to close my manufacturing and fabrication business during that time. That was only the start of one of the most difficult times in our lives. Not only did I have to close, I had to relieve some good people of their jobs, I lost my income, and no job became available for me until November. We home school our kids (3, with #4 on the way as I type this ), but no income made it extremely tough. We drained our investments, savings, everything, etc...to make ends meet. The position that became available required a cross-country move from Alabama to here in South Dakota. We made the move and things have finally gotten back on track, as of May 2010. All the while, the TII pretty much remained sitting. I should have sold it to help pay for groceries or bills, but I couldn't bring myself to part with it as this was supposed to be something for me and my son to build together. My son remained very understanding and a trooper about the delays. Fast forward to today...the car is approximately 80% finished with a few big ticket items still left to do. So, without further adieu, here's the progression from start to as she sits today. February 2009, this is how we get the car (thanks to Phil and Bryan @ BNR). Good foundation to start from with only minor fixes required. Supposedly, the engine has been rebuilt with only about 100 miles on it. Which after as much inspecting as can be done without going inside the engine, it appeared to be a fresh rebuild. Only rusty spot on the car (I've cut it out and will weld in new metal): Then we started stripping things and cleaning up the engine bay, prepping for the S5 bumper conversions and S5 mouldings, addition of a factory rear spoiler, etc... S5 bumpers and factory rear spoiler are on, S4 moulding off and waiting on the newer S5 moulding, S5 tails waiting to go in: New struts, Tanabe lowering springs, new cross drilled and slotted rotors, and EBC green pads at all four corners: RB braided oil lines installed: HID projector lamps in place (still awaiting the ballasts to be wired in), and FMIC mounted in place: Bryan @ BNR hooked me up on a deal with his S5 turbo setup off of his gold TII (with all his goodies in there), semi-solid engine mounts can be seen here, stock flywheel in great shape but going back with a new Stage III clutch (I can't remember the brand right now since it has been over a year): Then my son and I began discussing really where we would like to see the car heading and the end result. My son wanted some sort of military theme and for the TII to be completely different than most of what you see. Well, I suggested we do something that I am comfortable with and can teach him about something that is sort of fading away like many good things that we have had and is now gone........let's go carb and turbo. He liked the idea so off we went into it like two pioneers. I know certain carbs pretty well, but had no idea of the overall challenge this would ultimately (and still is) putting me through. ..... .... ... .. . Last edited by jtbshaw; 10-18-2010 at 07:28 AM..

10-03-2010, 10:19 PM	#2
jtbshaw ORD - Old Rotary Dude Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Pelham, AL iTrader: (3) Posts: 319 Rep Power: 17	.... to continue on, we still had lots to do. Build the tubing for the FMIC, address the ECU/timing/fueling/etc..., seats (since the car didn't have any), cooling (since the factory radiator showed signs of leakage), and a bunch of other stuff. We decided to ditch the items in the center of the dash, except for the HVAC controls.....no radio or cig light basically. This would provide a convenient place for gauges and switches. We removed the ECU and engine harness which left me without any fueling or ignition. The fueling wasn't any big deal until the factory tank turned up rusty inside. Since we are going carb, why not just build a custom cell. So I modified a Jeg's 15 gallon aluminum cell to fit in the stock locatiion and allow fillups to be the same as a stock tank. Getting started: Finished up tig welding everything, showing the stock fuel sender location, venting in the middle, stock input/vent tube in the stock location, and -10 fuel supply and -8 return line fittings: Custom oil filler neck that I built to accomadate the FMIC tubing (wait, a distributor on a FC????...more to come on that later): FMIC tubing built (only a few couplers needed now): Rotary Shack DCOE blow through carb and plenum installed, and the Fluidyne radiator mounted, and FMIC tubing test fitted: Gilmer drive setup installed: I'll post more as I have discovered many of the pics are not uploaded. More to come soon................. Last edited by jtbshaw; 10-03-2010 at 10:39 PM..

10-04-2010, 07:35 PM	#3
*TitaniumTT* Test Whore - Admin Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Right Behind you son iTrader: (4) Posts: 4,581 Rep Power: 10	FIRST! Finally the long awaited build thread! Congrats Todd. I had no idea the hardships you went through, sorry to hear about that. I also didn't know your son was that young! You're creating a monster! I got a ride in a Ferrari 348 for my 12th b-day, its been a 20 year addiction since. Congrats again brotha, she looks like a beaut! Can't wait to see her in 34 days By the way guys, Todd was the inspiration and lead behind my custom fuel cell. __________________ -The Angry Stig- DGRR 2009, 2011, 2012 & 2013 - Best FC DEALS GAP!! WOOHOOOO!!!!! 2015 Audi S4 - Samantha - Zero Brap S4 2004 RX8 - Jocelyn - 196rwhp, 19mpg fuel to noise converter 2000 Jeep Cherokee Sport - Wifey mobile - Now with 2.5" OME lift and 30" BFG AT KO's! So it begins 1998 Jeep Cherokee - 5 spd, 4" lift, 33" BFG's - Rotary Tow Vehicle 1988 'Vert - In progress 1988 FC Coupe - Gretchen -The attention whore BEAST! I'm a sick individual, what's wrong with you? I'm pure Evil I'm still insane, in the best possible way. I think Brian's idea of romance is using lube. Your rage caused the meteor strike in Russia. The Antichrist would be proud of his minion. You win with your thread. Most everything It's a truck with a steel gate on the back. Just a statement of fact Motec M820, AIM dash, ported 13B-RE Cosmo, 6-spd trans, 4.3 Torsen, custom twin wg fully divided mani, Custom 4" split into 2x 3" exhaust, Custom HMIC, Custom custom custom custom I like to welder stuff.... No Bolt-ons allowed. Dyno'ed @ Speed1 Tuned by me - 405rwhp on WG.... WM50 cuming soon. *-Angry Motherfcker Mode ENGAGED-**

11-09-2010, 10:23 PM	#9
*TitaniumTT* Test Whore - Admin Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Right Behind you son iTrader: (4) Posts: 4,581 Rep Power: 10	NICE!!! I can't wait to see this ride. You'll have to educate me on the ignition system when I get out there. Would the location of the webers have an effect on them? Meaning if they're meant to be mounted vertically, the float bowls won't work properly.... __________________ -The Angry Stig- DGRR 2009, 2011, 2012 & 2013 - Best FC DEALS GAP!! WOOHOOOO!!!!! 2015 Audi S4 - Samantha - Zero Brap S4 2004 RX8 - Jocelyn - 196rwhp, 19mpg fuel to noise converter 2000 Jeep Cherokee Sport - Wifey mobile - Now with 2.5" OME lift and 30" BFG AT KO's! So it begins 1998 Jeep Cherokee - 5 spd, 4" lift, 33" BFG's - Rotary Tow Vehicle 1988 'Vert - In progress 1988 FC Coupe - Gretchen -The attention whore BEAST! I'm a sick individual, what's wrong with you? I'm pure Evil I'm still insane, in the best possible way. I think Brian's idea of romance is using lube. Your rage caused the meteor strike in Russia. The Antichrist would be proud of his minion. You win with your thread. Most everything It's a truck with a steel gate on the back. Just a statement of fact Motec M820, AIM dash, ported 13B-RE Cosmo, 6-spd trans, 4.3 Torsen, custom twin wg fully divided mani, Custom 4" split into 2x 3" exhaust, Custom HMIC, Custom custom custom custom I like to welder stuff.... No Bolt-ons allowed. Dyno'ed @ Speed1 Tuned by me - 405rwhp on WG.... WM50 cuming soon. *-Angry Motherfcker Mode ENGAGED-**

11-10-2010, 08:04 AM	#11
*Herblenny* Founder/Administrator/Internet Pitbull :) Join Date: Jan 2008 iTrader: (11) Posts: 644 Rep Power: 10	Awesome Build Todd!!! Looking great! __________________ DGRR 2013 - Year of 13B www.DealsGapRotaryRally.com http://www.facebook.com/Herblenny

10-04-2010, 08:25 PM	#4
jtbshaw ORD - Old Rotary Dude Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Pelham, AL iTrader: (3) Posts: 319 Rep Power: 17	Thanks B. It's been a good build. However, as of lately, this thing has pushed me. I can't seem to get the timing right, no matter what I do. All of my old school tricks are not working, nothing! She'll fire up, but she's not timed right. She sounds sick, but not bad engine kind of sick. It's gotta be something with the DLIDFIS ignition, timing, or both. Me and another friend that are having similar rotary woes have even mentioned lately of pulling the rotary stuff and going with something reciprocating. Just can't do it though. At this point of having 24 years of working on these engines/cars, I guess it is safe to say rotary for life. Thanks for the props on the fuel cell. I'm looking forward to seeing those RX8 seats in your FC also. Back on the build, I took today off from work, relaxed and got some much needed rest, so nothing has been uploaded. I will update the thread soon with more details and photos. Thanks again, B. I'll see you in about a month. Bring you some warm clothes. We are already seeing 30s at night. Last edited by jtbshaw; 10-06-2010 at 07:47 AM..

10-21-2010, 01:45 AM	#5
speedjunkie RCC Loves Me Not You Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Colorado Springs, CO iTrader: (1) Posts: 2,089 Rep Power: 19	Nice work! Good luck with the rest of the project.

10-22-2010, 06:23 PM	#6
prrex4ever Rotary Fanatic Join Date: Oct 2008 iTrader: (1) Posts: 274 Rep Power: 17	Awesome father/ son project. Looking great, good luck with her.

10-23-2010, 09:58 AM	#7
jtbshaw ORD - Old Rotary Dude Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Pelham, AL iTrader: (3) Posts: 319 Rep Power: 17	Thanks speedjunkie and prrex. I will post an update sometime next week. I am travelling for work and I hope this is my last stint out on the road for this year. This 1-2 weeks out of each month is severely slowing the progress. We will get back on it soon. I have updated photos, just have to upload and type out everything. Look for the update soon.

11-09-2010, 02:00 PM	#8
jtbshaw ORD - Old Rotary Dude Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Pelham, AL iTrader: (3) Posts: 319 Rep Power: 17	We have been able to confirm that the engine is solid and healthy. We acquired a Mazda digital rotary engine compression tester that shows that the car has a good heart. After much reading and confirming that our timing is set correctly and the DLIDFIS is firing nicely and correctly, the carb is just not in sync with everything else. Talked to a couple of buddies that are really familiar with the Webers and they gave us some pointers which has improved things. It appears that we have to play around with the jetting now to get everything dialed in. Other than those things, not much has been done to the car. Still have some wire tucking to do, install most of my gauges, get the interior back together, finish out the exhaust, then a whole bunch of other stuff. We got her out of the barn for a little while and gave her a bath. We also noticed that I didn't put in the above details that the driver's front fender has been replaced with a new one. But we still have to weld in some replacement metal over the right rear where we cut out the rusted through area. We also changed out the Tial BOV with a old school HKS BOV. Here's a few pics of how she sits today (mostly). Right after her bath:

11-10-2010, 07:45 AM	#10
jtbshaw ORD - Old Rotary Dude Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Pelham, AL iTrader: (3) Posts: 319 Rep Power: 17	Absolutely, it does B. If this was a IDA, DCD, etc... it certainly wouldn't perform properly. This is a blow through 45mm DCOE and it is designed to run in the configuration you see above. I just have to play with the jetting and adjustments to dial it in. There's all sorts of demo and renovation stuff going on at our house, and part of that is in the room I had planned for you to have. I will have somewhere for you to sleep when you get here though.

11-10-2010, 11:41 PM	#13
NoDOHC The quest for more torque Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Sheboygan, Wisconsin iTrader: (1) Posts: 855 Rep Power: 17	I like that alternator belt, it looks like it was meant to run a blower (supercharger). Cool looking project - What a car to get at 16... Looking good! __________________ 1986 GXL ('87 4-port NA - Haltech E8, LS2 Coils. Defined Autoworks Headers, Dual 2.5" Exhaust (Dual Superflow, dBX mufflers) 1991 Coupe (KYB AGX Shocks, Eibach lowering springs, RB exhaust, Stock and Automatic)

11-11-2010, 12:07 AM	#14
jtbshaw ORD - Old Rotary Dude Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Pelham, AL iTrader: (3) Posts: 319 Rep Power: 17	Yep, the good ole Gilmer drive setup. Everytime I build one of these engines, I always ditch the v-belt setups and go with a 6-groove serpentine or a Gilmer drive. It makes an interesting sound. At idle, it sounds like I have a blower on there, rev it up and then the turbo whistle takes over. The car will be painted OD green with some small things stenciled on the sides and maybe some small decals. The seats have been recovered for some time now in a similar (but softer) material that the old OD green duffle bags used to be. Since my son was about 2, we have called him Elliot Moose, from the children's book. He's a sizable kid (11 years old, 5'-5", and 145lbs, and wears a size 10.5 men's shoe) so the name "Moose" just has kind of stayed with him. Since this is a rotary, I had "Rotary Moose" embroidered into the headrest with a cool moose image I found. The interior will be free of luxuries, but more function than anything. Just as something military would be. A good bit of carbon fiber will be inside, with several gauges and switches to control and monitor things. Here's a close-up image of the seats: And just a cool shifter knob I picked up for him in summer 2009 to go along with the military theme: