Cerberus Project

[vex]

Originally Posted by WE3RX7

Lots of thought needs to go into the manifold - IE: divided, undivided, equal length, log style, etc... all play a factor in the performance of the turbo. I'd keep it close if I were you though... seems like an easier task and you dont have to worry about cracking the manifold as much.

I can only keep it as close as I can physically implement it. Right now the limiting factors for the turbo mounting location are the 6PI actuators. I'll have to plan either sandwiching the cold side between the 6PI or the hotside, both have their positives and cons. Either way. It's going to prove to be an interesting ordeal.

[vex]

Figured I'd get back and shoot some pictures.

Here's a mock up of the turbo manifold I'll be making.

It's not pretty, and it's not what I originally thought of how I would route the pipes. But after talking it over with a person more familiar with turbo modifications and finite space, he recommended this path for the turbo.

There's a few benefits with doing it this way. It provides an easy access to the turbo, better oil drainage, and not to mention easier routing of all the lines. There is even ability to theoretically move up to a bigger turbo if I ever so desire (though a T60-1 is plenty big right now, especially for an NA engine with a large street port). This allows the 6PI to remain intact and still allows the easy access and manipulation of the turbo.

The plan is to make this out of mild schedule 40 weld "L's" and be able to mount the turbo and access the bolts. The only down side to this setup is that it places the turbo fairly close to the brake line of the passenger front brakes. I do plan on protecting the lines before I do a wire/line tuck on the engine bay by either a heat deflector, protective wire wrap, or wrapping the brake line with some exhaust wrap (other possibilities may include a turbine blanket and wrapping the down pipe--though I'd prefer not to wrap the down pipe supplying me with the biggest temperature differential possible).

[vex]

Here's a digital mock up. It's not super accurate, but accurate enough for the what it needs:





Didn't put in the turbo flange, but used the pipe run as best as I could. I don't think the up shot to the turbo will actually be as pig pictured there. Maybe two inches shorter.

[WE3RX7]

You can also move the brake lines. They are cheap enough to make new ones if needed.


Also, I'm sure you've thought of it, but anticipate bracing those runners together...

[vex]

Originally Posted by WE3RX7

You can also move the brake lines. They are cheap enough to make new ones if needed.

I suppose I could do that. But I don't know how I'd want to run the line... just don't know.

Also, I'm sure you've thought of it, but anticipate bracing those runners together...

Already planning on it. I'm making it with schedule 40 which is already pretty good and strong by itself, any bracing I put on it will more than likely be mated to the flange. Should be quite the turbo manifold when done.

[WE3RX7]

Yea, schedule 40 is good, but the more weight you hang out over those bends over time will start to show signs of giving out...

Cant wait to see it when its done though...

[vex]

Originally Posted by WE3RX7

Yea, schedule 40 is good, but the more weight you hang out over those bends over time will start to show signs of giving out...

Cant wait to see it when its done though...

Just picked up the weld Els today. Should be good. Still have to locate some bungs for the NPT of the thermocouples which i'll be getting put on there too. I'm planning on getting them coated by a guy in my local car club. Should be good.

Today was a stainless steel line day. I was able to pick up the -10AN for the oil cooler and with some help get them all connected. I took some pictures so check 'em out. Around this same time I realized that my fuel lines are not -8AN but -6AN talk about bad luck. Hopefully Todd hasn't already welded the -8 bungs to the fuel rails, but if he did I don't think it will be too much trouble to just put on an adapter for -6. We'll see though. But here are some pictures:

When I dropped in the engine:

Notice the oil return flange. It's going to be a fun day when I actually can finally hook that up.


The turbo with the V-Band adapter mounted to it with the V-Band flange waiting for welding.


Prepping for figuring the turbo. My original intent was to mount the turbo very close to the stock location and just keep it as straight as possible. Didn't work out as you can see from the previous post.


Oil Cooler Lines. That's a 120 on the top, a 90 on the side. -10AN line. Not bad for $70.


Here's the beginning of my parallel fuel system. Should be feeding some 1200 cc/min and some 720 cc/min (I think, I'll have to double check the flow rates on the injectors). Should be enough fuel for my project. Anyone want to guess how much Horse power I'll make once I finally break the engine in and get it tuned?


Backside of the engine. Simple 90 and shoots forward. It's actually a much cleaner install than the stock lines and I'm surprised I didn't do this sooner.


Here's the oil cooler mounted and placed a few inches forward of the original position. If you look closely I cut out a portion of the angle iron to allow an additional inch of breathing room to the cooler.


A better angle of the new lower oil cooler line.

[vex]

Well, now that I have the components to build the new manifold I went ahead and made it slightly more accurate. Honestly, I'm quite happy with how it turned out except for the transition component. Never mind that. But any suggestions on the manifold design thus far?

[classicauto]

Looks very similar to the A-spec FC manifold. Personally, I'd locate the wastegate runners closer to the tubrine. Looks decent though. How large of primaries are you going to run? They look pretty beefy in the renderings.

[vex]

Schedule 40 all the way around. 2in diameter on the primary runners, 1.5 in on the wastegate side. Can't really move them up since they'd start interfering with the 6PI actuators and down pipe. I did that rendering as accurately as possible. I'm re-thinking the transition piece however between the runners and the turbine inlet flange. I thought of a much easier and nicer looking transition to do it. may even prove to be more compact.

Something I'm still trying to figure out is how to do a stress analysis on the manifold assembly to see if I'll need to incorporate bracing in it.

[Eatmyclutch]

wow Have fun with yore project.

I just saw the list of parts hah

Good luck.

[vex]

Originally Posted by Eatmyclutch

wow Have fun with yore project.

I just saw the list of parts hah

Good luck.

Post number 1? lol, there was sooo much more to the planning than that page. I'd have to dig it up again, but I think I had 1 work book with different spreadsheets specific to that portion of the build ie: oil, cooling, induction, exhaust, etc.

[classicauto]

I would run a little smaller primaries personally, something in the 1.75" flavour. 2" is pretty large, but it shouldn't hurt that much.

As far as interfering with your actuators, without really holding it up I'd have to go by what you're saying, but I really think you'd benefit in the boost control department from locating them closer to the turbine. Even if the height from the primaries didn't change, but you just rotated the runners 90* to face the primaries where they enter the turbine, you may be able to make them fit.

I wouldn't think you'll need much bracing, that manifold is pretty short, and with some heavy wall stainless it will be pretty damn stout.

[vex]

Originally Posted by classicauto

I would run a little smaller primaries personally, something in the 1.75" flavour. 2" is pretty large, but it shouldn't hurt that much.

A little too late now though. I already picked up the materials for it. Honestly I don't think the exhaust gas flow will slow down that much compared to the two, but I may be mistaken. A change in area of less than 1 sq in isn't all that big.

As far as interfering with your actuators, without really holding it up I'd have to go by what you're saying, but I really think you'd benefit in the boost control department from locating them closer to the turbine. Even if the height from the primaries didn't change, but you just rotated the runners 90* to face the primaries where they enter the turbine, you may be able to make them fit.

I really doubt I'll be able to make them fit on the upper side of things without hitting interference from the 6PI actuators. I may be able to have enough room since they're low enough on the profile to sit on the underside of the 90* bend. Unfortunately this means that a lot of the welds would be exposed to the direct exhaust temperature. I honestly don't think that will hold up too well. Consequently the only other option would be to mount a 90* on the collector angle it directly down so it by-passes the primaries all together and then have another 90* angled towards the rear of the car. I can only think that a bad idea by the moment arm placed on the manifold. There's suddenly independent primaries without the additional bracing that the wastegate runners provided before. Though it may be asinine to worry about since the primaries are so thick.

I wouldn't think you'll need much bracing, that manifold is pretty short, and with some heavy wall stainless it will be pretty damn stout.

I picked up mild, and should still be as stout. The stainless pieces I was looking at were about 2 to 3 times as expensive. A little out of the price range of this build.

[vex]

Finished welding up the primaries just prior to the collector today. I heart my friends TIG. I also started the wastegate runner. Trying to cut a 90* to fit onto a pipe mid-way through is quite difficult. I still have a few cuts to make before I hit it with a die-grinder. I also well need to drill holes and hit the wastegate runner with a die-grinder once I finalize the position of the exits. There really isn't any room at all to run the wastegate runner just below the collector as it does interfere a lot with the actuators, and there's no room to mount them on the outside of the bend near the collector as it will hit the strut tower and/or the frame. The only other option would be to mount the wastegate runner on the underside of the manifold, and there's really no point to that especially with how compact the manifold already is.