FC3S Murray's never ending build.

[TitaniumTT]

Race anyone? Joe and I are tied @ 1 each

Sean, you have a PM again and my cell phone is in an email to you somewhere.... I can't remember which one I sent it too :scratch:

[FC3S Murray]

So here is the carnage from this motor.

REAR ROTOR HOUSING
As you can see this housing was fucked from the get go and should NOT have been used.



FRONT ROTOR HOUSING
In better shape then the rear but is by no means a "good" condition housing. Those valleys in the first pic and ones by the exhaust catch your finger nail easily.




REAR IRON: Was in actually great shape. No high lips from seal wear on both inner and outer tracks. the port though......

Pretty ugly IMO

And funny that this little guy was OK. I still can't believe the Dowel O-ring was bad. I tossed it or I would have had a pic up of it.

[FC3S Murray]

INTERMEDIATE IRON
This outer seal lip does barely catch your nail and I am unsure if anyone would re-use it?




This is the front rotor side and it has some interesting wear. Looks to be sanded down for this "outstanding" build.



Sweet ports with complimentary dremel tracks

[FC3S Murray]

All the sweet corrision from when the motor sat static for 5 years





Good news is there is no pitting near gas seals BUT I dont know if I will use these irons.

[FC3S Murray]

FRONT ROTOR
Looks good and no sign of damage.



REAR ROTOR
Bearings look just as good as front rotor

....however there are two apex seal slots that have a ever so slightly "hair lip". I am unsure if this is bad but if I remeber right you just need to sand them down.?. correct me if wrong





The rest of the engine parts are in great shape. Stat gear bearings look great as well as teeth. Oil pump almost like new as well as throw out bearings in front and rear.

It is just very sad to see such poor craftsmanship from a credible shop. I know that in this case the original owner of the motor wanted the ECONOMY-BUILD but this is re-damn-diculas. I am VERY surprised there was no flaking on the rear housing. BUT in defense of this motor, the son-of-a-bitch was STRONG for being such a Frankenstein build.

I already have used S5 N/A housings on the way compliments of a friend (Thanks buddy). I am negotiating with some people on irons right now and am most likely going to have Dave Atkin port which ever ones I get. I WILL be going with the RA Super Seals. New springs all around as well. Might take a month or two to get everything BUT I AM GONNA FUCIKNG DO THIS RIGHT. No more BS and relying on other people’s poor craftsmanship and negligent maintenance practices.

Will update soon.

[TitaniumTT]

Everything looks good to me Sean. As for the corrosion on the irons, like I said earlier, as long as it's not close or weakening the gas seal area, which it clearly isn't, you should be in great shape. I would spend some time with a pic and a circular wire brush and get as much of that crap out as possible and don't forget to flush the exchangers both ways with a fair amount of pressure. My rad is still pucking crap from the first engine which, exactely the same as yours, sat static for 5 years.

As for the rotors........ I would clean everything up till no carbon remained in or around the apex seal slots and mic everything up and make sure it's withen spec. It's tough to tell from the pics but it looks like one of the slots bows out towards the end. I would be leary of that.

Which apex seals where used? The chatter marks look pretty bad.

The irons and the ports, the intermediate ports looks good.... as for the cutting tool hits...... I would take a fresh side seal, or the back of a used one and move it over in every single direction and see if it catches. If it doesn't, which I doubt it will becuase the engine has been run, I wouldn't worry tooooooooo much about them. Is it ideal? No. Liveable? Yes. The wear, well you can always get them lapped and re-nitrated. There is a member here, he has a few threads in the general tech section about his services. He'll be getting the irons that I have that are in my basement right now. Remember my comments about compression and irons......

Side seals - I would replace those along with the springs. The 86-95 seals are all the same. The S6 springs are stiffer though, or so I have been told. Makes sense as they are a different part number. & be careful clearancing them. The difference between good and no good is .1MM and I set all mine to between .05-.08mm. My tip would be to buy 14 or 15 just in case. I broke one grinding it.

Anyway, if you want to call feel free, you have my number. I need to cut a check to pay off my last rebuild (my CC co HATES me! Never a balance despite the $3,700 bill this month ) and then I'm swapping fuel tanks and pumps and filters in prep for tomorrow's dyno....... then I may just drive to PA tonight. The short is, I'll prob be up till ~midnight eastern time so don't be shy.

Good luck and keep us all updated.

-B

[TitaniumTT]

Originally Posted by FC3S Murray

Might take a month or two to get everything BUT I AM GONNA FUCIKNG DO THIS RIGHT. No more BS and relying on other people’s poor craftsmanship and negligent maintenance practices.

Will update soon.

Judging my the rest of your car, the only thing that falls into this category is what you just pulled apart.

[FC3S Murray]

Forgot to post FRONT IRON port.

[FC3S Murray]

Which apex seals where used? The chatter marks look pretty bad.

Standard 2mm Mazda???

The irons and the ports, the intermediate ports looks good.... as for the cutting tool hits...... I would take a fresh side seal, or the back of a used one and move it over in every single direction and see if it catches. If it doesn't, which I doubt it will becuase the engine has been run, I wouldn't worry tooooooooo much about them. Is it ideal? No. Liveable? Yes.

I am still a little reluctant if I want to use this intermediate iron. I do not want to fork out that much cash for lapping on the front and intermediate(new rear on is good just needs port). I don't know, my last motor I took apart had even a bigger lip in it and it had 105 compression all around. I would most likely find a ported intermediate that is within spec...themn I won't have to invest the time into waiting on the lapping and cleaing the coolant jackets.

Remember my goal is August. With Family and work that is flying.

Side seals - I would replace those along with the springs. The 86-95 seals are all the same. The S6 springs are stiffer though, or so I have been told. Makes sense as they are a different part number. & be careful clearancing them. The difference between good and no good is .1MM and I set all mine to between .05-.08mm. My tip would be to buy 14 or 15 just in case. I broke one grinding it

I planned on doing new side seals. Springs too. QUESTION, what apex seal springs do I go with when I use the RA Super Seals?

Judging my the rest of your car, the only thing that falls into this category is what you just pulled apart.

Thanks man. I hope this goes well.

BTW good luck with the dyno session tomorrow. I wish for only lots of HP and very few problems. I will shoot you a line if I have any ques's.

[vex]

To handle the lips on the rotors use a sharpening stone. and gently file it down until the proper contour is made. Also continually inspect and check the fitment of the proper Apex seal.

[FC3S Murray]

Took some more photos of the questionable REAR rotor apex seal grooves.

Here are all six..







I cant find a spec in the FSM, All i can find is clearance between Apex seal and rotor apex seal slot.

[WE3RX7]

Some light filing on the tips should clean them up... its hard to tell the gap though. You can always get it milled to 3m if you're not sure...

[classicauto]

Those are Rotary aviation seals by the looks of the assist/small piece.

The OEM's have a very very tiny part of the assist section that actually touches the housing, like .009. Those are much bigger

That would explain the chatter anyways.

Sorry to hear about the findings

Personally I'd stay away from the aviation stuff - it'll tear up your housings. But to each his own

EDIT2: Also, if you look at the wear line on the top apex seal, you can see how it heads down the seal in a few areas. Not good - either mill or replace those rotors. Even the two bottom seals - which have mostly STRAIGHT wear - are down pretty far on the beam. The wear should be a *little* higher on the seal in a perfect engine. However save for the seal on top with the jagged wear, the other two are liveable.

[FC3S Murray]

I already bought RA Super Seals. So far all I have heard is good things to include wear on housings as long as you PREMIX.

What do you think about the rear rotor slot Classic?

[vex]

Originally Posted by FC3S Murray

I already bought RA Super Seals. So far all I have heard is good things to include wear on housings as long as you PREMIX.

What do you think about the rear rotor slot Classic?

Premix shouldn't really matter a whole lot. Take a look at the oil thread in general rotary. There's interesting data in there.