TitaniumTT's I hope I make it to DGRR '09 Build

[FC3S Murray]

HAHAHAHAHA that turkey scene just made my morning man! Honestly I just woke up my daughter from laughing so hard

Lol, it is amazing the the sounds we can utter being fucking surprised right before something bad is gonna happen. MAN Brian what you murmured about made me shit my pants because of laughter.

btw the car spools so freaking fast, that is seriously impressive. I am very happy you can finally bear fruit from your last 6 months of BS.


................i need to get me an RX-8....sticky little bastards.

[WE3RX7]

Originally Posted by JShiz

this is for you

http://www.siliconeintakes.com/produ...24db21e1afda43

That is awesome, lol... and cheap. I like it. I will have to go this route for sure if it comes to that... I'm hoping my state inspector connection still has a job when the time comes...

[WE3RX7]

Originally Posted by TitaniumTT

Wait, how the hell does that work? Certain metro areas are still subject to emissions but if you live out in the sticks, pollute away?

Yup - In VA, most of your counties are free of emissions but all require visual inspection (cat, air intakes, smog pump, etc). For me - I lived and worked in Loudoun county where they had emissions, so I kept my RX vehicles registered to my parents address as being "garaged in" their county so I never had to worry about emissions. Now that I've moved back to the "sticks" I dont have to do that loophole any more.

Side note... northern VA counties are going to start using (some already have I believe) sniffers on the ramps in our metro areas to sniff your car as it passes... tell me how thats going to work!?

Its all a money making scheme - we have more people in Fairfax county than most STATES all together. Our population between DC and Prince William is insane - thats the only reason they run emissions there...




Nice video - although, I almost feel like the editing/commentary was poking fun at the FC, lol... "Look at the gap the RX8 puts on the old FC" "Look at how good the RX8 is", etc... they should send that to mazda for their next commercial, they need to start selling more RX8s!

[TitaniumTT]

Originally Posted by FC3S Murray

HAHAHAHAHA that turkey scene just made my morning man! Honestly I just woke up my daughter from laughing so hard

Sorry man!

Originally Posted by FC3S Murray

Lol, it is amazing the the sounds we can utter being fucking surprised right before something bad is gonna happen. MAN Brian what you murmured about made me shit my pants because of laughter.

What did I mutter? I heard a WHOA! and then a lot of swearing

Originally Posted by FC3S Murray

btw the car spools so freaking fast, that is seriously impressive. I am very happy you can finally bear fruit from your last 6 months of BS.

Me too man, me too - thanks. The spool is just about instant. It's SICK! I don't think I ever hit full throttle or full boost. I seriously need some traction control over the winter. I've already starting talking with MoTeC about it. Doesn't seem like it'll be too bad on the old wallet either. One one route won't be. I was thinking about an expansion box so I could do a little AUX playing around, but I just don't need it. The AIT's are are fine, there's really no need so I think I'm just going to get the traction control expansion box which is like 20% of the cost.

Originally Posted by FC3S Murray

................i need to get me an RX-8....sticky little bastards.

Yeah man, those things were nuts. The silver one was on C/O's and NT-01's. STOCK engine with a catback. Basiaclly 190RWHP vs my 405 and I couldn't really keep up. They were pushing it harder than me, but still, yeah, sticky little mothers, I destroyed them on the higway though

Originally Posted by WE3RX7

Yup - In VA, most of your counties are free of emissions but all require visual inspection (cat, air intakes, smog pump, etc). For me - I lived and worked in Loudoun county where they had emissions, so I kept my RX vehicles registered to my parents address as being "garaged in" their county so I never had to worry about emissions. Now that I've moved back to the "sticks" I dont have to do that loophole any more.

Side note... northern VA counties are going to start using (some already have I believe) sniffers on the ramps in our metro areas to sniff your car as it passes... tell me how thats going to work!?

Didn't CA try that? Retarded

Originally Posted by WE3RX7

Nice video - although, I almost feel like the editing/commentary was poking fun at the FC, lol... "Look at the gap the RX8 puts on the old FC" "Look at how good the RX8 is", etc... they should send that to mazda for their next commercial, they need to start selling more RX8s!

Yeah I know, but it was destined for the 8 club so I can see why they did it. We're heading out again this w/e if the weather holds, I'll push her a little harder. I'm still waiting on the vid that was on the back of Steve's RX8 pointing at me. Oh well, what can ya do. The turkey was awesome though. That twice now I almost pulled into the bumper.

[FC3S Murray]

Originally Posted by TitaniumTT

What did I mutter? I heard a WHOA! and then a lot of swearing

It really wasn't a "whoa" or a word..in any language for that matter. Actually was the sound a person makes like.. lets say when your stomach shifts and you realize you are about to shit your pants and there is nothing you can do. OR it is the sound one would make after waking up in a strange place after a crazy party night next to a hermaphrodite and seeing a used condom on the night stand table. Yeah.., that is the sound for sure.

btw I have no idea what the 2nd description is like NOR have I been there, I just imagine that is how one would react vocally.

[TitaniumTT]

It's a sound alright, sounds like a GUNSHOT!

nice cover though Sean.... you sick bastard. I do like where your head WAS at

I understand though, my stomach just shifted

[scotty305]

Originally Posted by TitaniumTT

....
Turbo Control Valve - TCV located in the exhaust Mani - allows the full exhaust of the rear rotor into the 2ndary turbo
Charge Control Valve - CCV - Located after the 2ndaries compressor to keep the primary from backspooling the 2ndary
Charge Relief Valve - CRV - Vents the 2ndaries boost until it's ready to come online.
Pre-Spool Valve - PSV - works like a wastegate to send exhaust energy to the 2ndary to start spooling it up.
...
So we played with the CCV, opening it earlier or later proved to make the biggest difference in the reponse. We would either get a HUGE surge in torque, which just felt odd, or a slight dip during the transistion and then boost built again. This is what we opted for. After 21 runs (and 101 runs total) it seemed like we were chasing our tails and not getting anywhere, so we decided to call it for the night and head back after some street tuning.

Very interesting. I've also got a standalone that will allow me to control these valves independently, and so far I've got the CCV, CRV, and TCV solenoids all switching at the same RPM (4000 works well so far). At low RPM, the WG solenoid is about 90% duty and the PSV is used for boost control.

Your post above suggests you might be opening the CCV before or after the TCV and CRV?


By the way, regarding TPS-based boost control, I've heard of tuners using this as a way to compensate for throttle airflow saturation. If your throttle allows about the same airflow from 70-100%, increasing the boost target at 80, 90,. 100% is one way of giving the throttle a nice linear feel. I've tried this on my car and the feel is pretty nice... I imagine it's a bit more important with big-power cars like yours, mine isn't even putting 300 to the wheels.

[TitaniumTT]

Originally Posted by scotty305

Very interesting. I've also got a standalone that will allow me to control these valves independently, and so far I've got the CCV, CRV, and TCV solenoids all switching at the same RPM (4000 works well so far). At low RPM, the WG solenoid is about 90% duty and the PSV is used for boost control.

First, which standalone are you using?

How is your WG plumbed? If you are lowering duty to increase boost, I would think about changing that around. That is the original way I had it but upon more thought, I decided it was a bad idea. If the solenoid goes dead for whatever reason, your boost will spike out of control after the transition. Before the transition, you're right, the PSV does a nice job of controling boost, this is exactely how I have it. I would like some sort of closed loop feedback and I am still toying with it.

Originally Posted by scotty305

Your post above suggests you might be opening the CCV before or after the TCV and CRV?

Yes, I am opening the CCV partially and beginning to close the CRV before the TCV kicks over. It's all based on RPM's and TP at this point. I may take a break and revisit it in the spring but right now, it's damn smooth. On low boost the transition is virtually flawless. In highboost though it's more like a 12-12-15 pattern and when that 15 hits, traction is gone in 1st and 2nd by 4200 and in third around 6 it usually breaks loose. These are RT615's sized 255/40/17.

My low boost and high boost can be adjusted with a dash mounted 9-posotion mini switch. I love the MoTeC

Originally Posted by scotty305

By the way, regarding TPS-based boost control, I've heard of tuners using this as a way to compensate for throttle airflow saturation. If your throttle allows about the same airflow from 70-100%, increasing the boost target at 80, 90,. 100% is one way of giving the throttle a nice linear feel. I've tried this on my car and the feel is pretty nice... I imagine it's a bit more important with big-power cars like yours, mine isn't even putting 300 to the wheels.

Yup, that's exactely how I have it setup. My MoTeC guru gave me that little tip to linearizre the throttle. You're right, increasing the throttle from 70-100% has little to no effect on the power to the ground. By adding that axis in the boost control, it gives a much more linear pedal. Right now, the table is just that, linear. At lower RPM's it doesn't do much because of the WG spring, actuation etc etc/ I need to play around with it a little more. I think in the end it will look more exponential until 5k and then level off. We shall see.

I'm interested in your project. Care to share a little?

[scotty305]

I have an AEM EMS, stock wastegate, stock solenoid and vacuum routing... I think higher duty cycle yields higher boost. I'm not completely sure; there's an 'invert duty cycle' option in the software so I might have enabled that and forgotten about it a while ago.


I hadn't thought to control the solenoids that way (it's my understanding that the stock ECU switches them all at the same RPM), thanks for the info.


Didn't mean to distract from your thread, more info about my setup here:
http://rotarycarclub.com/rotary_foru...ead.php?t=5496

[TitaniumTT]

Distract all you want Scotty, it's turned into more of a Blog with some of my friends talking about waking up the morning after a huge party next to a hermafrodite This thread is no longer about making it to DGRR '09 as those set's of mods and all the issues with them are FINALLY gone. She's about to go into hibernation for a few weeks at which point she'll come out for another laundry list of mods. These will be documented in an upcoming thread, "Diary of a Madman - See you at DGRRX"

Anywho, the stock WG solenoid is plumbed after the WG. The actuator is fed boost from the comp housing. The solenoid bleeds the boost out of the actuators chamber to raise boost. So, if the solenoid goes limp and CAN pass air through it, boost will build wildly. If the solenoid goes limp and closes, you'll contain all the boost produced in the actuator and it will run on spring pressure. I would check the FSM to see how to troubleshoot them. There will be something like blow through port a, if it passes through b without power etc etc etc. I'm using industrial solenoids, so unfortuneately my setup won't be of any help.

Does the AEM allow a different axis of adjustment of the various solenoids? If it does, with a little playing around, you should be able to get a smoother transition than the factory had. Here's what Dave & I have found in the 101 dyno pulls this car has logged. The dyno is a wonderful tool for tuning fuel and ignition maps. It's not as usefull for boost. Here's basically what we did - set everything to have a transition @ 3800 - split the difference in the factory's logic as a starting point - and set everything to happen @ 3800. We were using both the WG and the PSV to control boost and get the 2nd going (I should mention that I plumbed in a spare 2Bar Map sensor into the nipple on the secondary charge pipe between the compressor and the CCV so we could log what the 2ndary was doing for boost pre transition in an attempt to smoothen it out - again, I LOVE the MoTeC). First was a dip in boost and torque. Then we started ramping up the 2nd turbo with more PSV duty and lowering the WG. Result - a HUGE JUMP in torque at the transition.

So we started adjusting the CCV and CRV to begin and end at later and earlier points in an attempt to smothen it out. The datalogging was KEY and I can post a few screen shots if you'd like to see them. We ended up with a very small dip at the transition - on the dyno. On the street it was VERY different. There wasn't enough load or time to spool up the 2ndary so the dip was noticeable. To correct that I bumped the rpms of the transition to 4k and changed the duty of the PSV from a linear curve to more of an exponentially increasing curve. This resulted in that huge spike in torque showing again. The key, as I thought it to have been from the beginning which is why I went with the MoTeC as opposed to the PFC or the Haltech, was in smoothing out the CCV and the CRV over the course of a few hundred RPM's as opposed to instant. I should mention that I adjusted the RPM axis to allow for 50 or even 25 rpm increments so I could essentially manually control the interpolation that the ECU calculates. Basically forcing the MoTeC to quickly and exponentially ramp up the duties of the CCV and the CRV.

It's interesting to hear on the street. You can hear the PSV's solenoid clicking away building boost. You can here the CRV start to bleed it off, get louder and louder and then right at the transition it lets out one last big puff, goes silent, and boost either takes off to 15psi in high boost, or hangs out around 10 psi. Two last things to do, which are interated, is to change the boost contol from open to closed loop, and play around a little more with the PSV to increase boost a touch more at the lower rpms. With the WG set to closed loop, I'm not going to be able, at least I don't think, datalogs will tell me, control the boost pretransition unless I set the controls to only come on @ ~ 12psi. We'll see though, I need to play around with it once myh partner is back. At least I know I'm working with a good fuel/ignition map so the only thing I need to worry about is boost spikes

Logging that 2ndary boost chamber was critical though as it lets you see how you can pressurize that chamber by changing the CRV from a switched to a PWM. The valve itself may not like it, but I do By building pressure to the correct and equal to MAP psi and gradually opening the CRV, the transition is SEEMLESS. I don't know what it looks like on the dyno as I have yet to get back to one to confirm Dave's numbers as was disputed in this thread
http://rotarycarclub.com/rotary_foru...ead.php?t=9174
but I suspect that it will result in that torque spike. Only becuase the Dyno slows everything down. Where Dave and I got the transition pretty smooth on the dyno, it was not so smooth on the street. That 2nd "chamber" had more time to fill itself and the 2ndary turbo had more load , more exhaust, and more energy to spool itself more. On the street she fell on her face right at the transition and then TOOK OFF.

So we'll see. It's fun though.

How are those ID injectors? I'm getting myself a set over the winter. Part of the new list of things to do. I'm very exited about them. I've heard nothing but excellent things about them from people that aren't selling them, and have been in the FI industry for decades.

[scotty305]

That's really cool, thanks for sharing. The AEM lets me do simple on/off switching of the solenoids, based on a combination of MAP, TPS, RPM. Come to think of it, I've actually got the CRV and CCV actuators controlled by one stock solenoid (vacuum line from the solenoid is T'd to both actuators)... I think I heard about this from someone on another forum. That means I probably would be able to use one more PWM output to control that one CRV/CCV solenoid, assuming the stock solenoid will respond to the PWM signal.

I really like the idea of a spare MAP sensor for the secondary turbo... I may copy that idea someday. Attached a datalog of boost, WG duty cycle and precontrol duty (VVC#1 on the log) during a dyno pull. Now that you mention it, boost control settings that were pretty smooth on the road did yield quite a bit more fluctuation on the dyno.

[WE3RX7]

Anybody else notice this thread is finally on page 69? Brian, this calls for a celebration!

[EJayCe996]

Page 18 for me

[TitaniumTT]

Originally Posted by WE3RX7

Anybody else notice this thread is finally on page 69? Brian, this calls for a celebration!

WOOT! I'm wondering how my next thread will fare in comparision to this one.

Originally Posted by EJayCe996

Page 18 for me

Oh look at you mr I like to let my comp load massive amounts of pics all at once. I'm on 69 as well, I like the 10 posts per page esp with pic laden threads.... showoff

[TitaniumTT]

Originally Posted by scotty305

That's really cool, thanks for sharing. The AEM lets me do simple on/off switching of the solenoids, based on a combination of MAP, TPS, RPM. Come to think of it, I've actually got the CRV and CCV actuators controlled by one stock solenoid (vacuum line from the solenoid is T'd to both actuators)... I think I heard about this from someone on another forum. That means I probably would be able to use one more PWM output to control that one CRV/CCV solenoid, assuming the stock solenoid will respond to the PWM signal.

I really like the idea of a spare MAP sensor for the secondary turbo... I may copy that idea someday. Attached a datalog of boost, WG duty cycle and precontrol duty (VVC#1 on the log) during a dyno pull. Now that you mention it, boost control settings that were pretty smooth on the road did yield quite a bit more fluctuation on the dyno.

Yeah, it was pretty strange going back and forth between the dyno and the street. (As an aside, I moved my car inside for the night a few minutes ago, so I had to go for a blast around the neighborhood. My boost pattern on low boost is 8-7-8 then QUICKLY builds to 12 and falls off slightly. High boost is 12-11-15 falling off to 14. By the time 15 is hit in 2nd, tires are loose. I NEED traction control over the winter and gear vs boost as well.) ANYWAY, back on topic. The thing that I am seeing in your graph is a tremendous drop in MAP at the transition point. What's it like on the street in the higher gears? 3rd and 4th? Is it still such a dramatic drop like that or is it smoother? I would think that with the control of the AEM you should be able to work some of that out.

What concerns me though is you're running 2 valves from one solenoid. I think that may have something to do with your dip. The valves may not be reacting fast enough giving that big drop. I output from the ECU should be ok (although I really like each output having it's own adjustability) but I wouldn't use one output, one solenoid for two valves.

The benefit of giving each valve it's own output is that you can stagger the valves ever so slightly. We started with the CRV closing and the TCV opening 50rpm before the CCV opened. Giving the big jump in CFM that resulted in the torque just taking off and kicking you in the ass. You could even feel it on the dyno. It was like brrrrrAAAAAAAAAAP But, with each valve being controled seperately, you can stagger the valving to control the airflow a little more and get something smoother.

What I would do next time you're on the dyno is focus on the fuel and ign tuning. Get a MAP that you know is good in a safe envirornment. Work up in the boost to levels that you wouldn't normally be running at. Make the twins spike to huge boot numbers so you can tune that on the dyno so when you're on the street and things don't go according to plan, if you do push 20lbs at the transition, at least you won't go painfully lean and warp an Apex seal... cause I've done that... on the dyno... from a clogged fuel filter and not up-to-snuff fuel pump wiring. Dave and I didn't do exactely that, we gradually brought the boost up and then in the higher load/lower RPM sites I took the higher load/higher RPM sites that were tuned and did the math backwards and adjusted it up slightly to run around .78 if I ever got there accidentally.

It looks like there is alot of potential in the AEM. When I called inquiring about it, whoever I spoke to, this is prob 4 years ago at this point, didn't really know much and couldn't answer specific questions so I passed on it. I figured I would need all the tech support I could get and MoTeC was it. They didn't even have thier V3 software out yet either, the first thing I did with my box was update the software and even then we had a LONG indepth discussion about how the V2 could do it with a few workarounds but the V3 would handle it without a problem at all.