The 13B NA Power Thread.

Whizbang · 03-17-2009, 11:56 PM

throttle body, intake manifold and megasquirt arrived today!!

SleepeR1st · 03-18-2009, 07:27 AM

^^ Can you tell me that setup and where to buy those parts? I'm very interested in setting up an ITB setup but i want to stick with FI not carbeurators.

Roen · 03-18-2009, 01:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NoDOHC

Bear in mind that turbo fuel requirements / per horsepower are considerably higher than NA requirements.

Unless designed very carefully, a turbocharged engine is less efficient than a naturally aspirated engine.

300 whp looks like about 25% efficient with 4X550s (this is a little high for a stock turbo configuration) I would be worried with 4x550s at 300whp on boost.

Still, we're talking similar efficiency numbers, or at least it sounds similar to my ear.

The person I know had to shut the car off on the dyno since the NA injectors' duty cycles were getting to high at 197 whp.

NoDOHC · 03-19-2009, 10:38 PM

If they maxed 4 460 cc/min injectors out on the dyno, and made only 197 whp, they either had the parking brake set or were running way too rich to make peak power.

The numbers will not be that close, I really doubt that a 25% thermal efficiency can be achieved with a stock turbo and safe tune on a turbocharged rotary.

I have seen 30% (calculated) on an NA rotary.

Whizbang · 03-19-2009, 10:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SleepeR1st

^^ Can you tell me that setup and where to buy those parts? I'm very interested in setting up an ITB setup but i want to stick with FI not carbeurators.

The megasquirt can come from a variety of sources.

The manifold can come from a few places as well. Same manifold for a Weber.

The ITBs i got used, but new TWM, Tweakit and a few other places have them.

Roen · 03-20-2009, 11:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NoDOHC

If they maxed 4 460 cc/min injectors out on the dyno, and made only 197 whp, they either had the parking brake set or were running way too rich to make peak power.

The numbers will not be that close, I really doubt that a 25% thermal efficiency can be achieved with a stock turbo and safe tune on a turbocharged rotary.

I have seen 30% (calculated) on an NA rotary.

AFR was at 12.8 : 1, which is slightly richer than where I would've have put it.

NoDOHC · 03-21-2009, 05:12 PM

Where they running peak and hold on the injectors?
What was the fuel pressure?
What was the injector duty cycle?
What timing advance and split were they running?
Did they have a bridgeport or peripheral port and scavenge a lot of air/fuel charge without burning it? (Making the Air/fuel ratio appear leaner than it really was and wasting fuel.)
I can't think of any other reasons that the injectors would be maxed out at that low of a horsepower number.

Even the online calculators (which assume a higher BSFC than a well tuned rotary has) say that 460 cc.min injectors should make 250 WHp.

Roen · 04-02-2009, 11:36 PM

Streetport, that's all i know.

Whizbang · 04-03-2009, 03:52 PM

I am hoping to at least get the car running before i leave for basic. When i get back i plan on building another engine for it. But i should be able to see what kind of power i can get out of a stock port engine.

Whizbang · 04-04-2009, 02:30 PM

Peejay just made 170 with his streetport setup on a megasquirt via Dynopaks

Whizbang · 04-21-2009, 03:09 PM

Well the 13B starts. Going to attempt some rought tuning but i leave in 6 days for basic so i wont be back to touch it again til September.

My5ABaby · 04-21-2009, 03:25 PM

What ITB is that?

Whizbang · 04-21-2009, 03:33 PM

efi hardware Pro Race with the tapered air horns.

(be non sized down version of that pic makes a great desktop pic)

chickenwafer · 06-17-2009, 01:53 AM

Can RX-8's play? LOL

When I was NA I made 202-rwhp and 132 tq on a stock keg (no porting) and running the factory EMS (no tune). I had the stock intake and cat in place.

For all the crap the Renesis gets sometimes in NA form it's actually not too shabby

diabolical1 · 06-19-2009, 02:53 PM

no question that their power is comparatively impressive, but i must say that i've been a bit disappointed with reliability - not of the motor, but the whole car.

03-17-2009, 11:56 PM	#46
Whizbang Respecognize! Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Δx = ħ/2Δp iTrader: (5) Posts: 3,190 Rep Power: 20	throttle body, intake manifold and megasquirt arrived today!! __________________ For current updates and event coverage check out Follow on Twitter! @WhizbangRally Whizbang Rally's Webpage \| Facebook

03-19-2009, 10:38 PM	#49
NoDOHC The quest for more torque Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Sheboygan, Wisconsin iTrader: (1) Posts: 855 Rep Power: 17	If they maxed 4 460 cc/min injectors out on the dyno, and made only 197 whp, they either had the parking brake set or were running way too rich to make peak power. The numbers will not be that close, I really doubt that a 25% thermal efficiency can be achieved with a stock turbo and safe tune on a turbocharged rotary. I have seen 30% (calculated) on an NA rotary. __________________ 1986 GXL ('87 4-port NA - Haltech E8, LS2 Coils. Defined Autoworks Headers, Dual 2.5" Exhaust (Dual Superflow, dBX mufflers) 1991 Coupe (KYB AGX Shocks, Eibach lowering springs, RB exhaust, Stock and Automatic)

03-21-2009, 05:12 PM	#52
NoDOHC The quest for more torque Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Sheboygan, Wisconsin iTrader: (1) Posts: 855 Rep Power: 17	Where they running peak and hold on the injectors? What was the fuel pressure? What was the injector duty cycle? What timing advance and split were they running? Did they have a bridgeport or peripheral port and scavenge a lot of air/fuel charge without burning it? (Making the Air/fuel ratio appear leaner than it really was and wasting fuel.) I can't think of any other reasons that the injectors would be maxed out at that low of a horsepower number. Even the online calculators (which assume a higher BSFC than a well tuned rotary has) say that 460 cc.min injectors should make 250 WHp. __________________ 1986 GXL ('87 4-port NA - Haltech E8, LS2 Coils. Defined Autoworks Headers, Dual 2.5" Exhaust (Dual Superflow, dBX mufflers) 1991 Coupe (KYB AGX Shocks, Eibach lowering springs, RB exhaust, Stock and Automatic)

04-03-2009, 03:52 PM	#54
Whizbang Respecognize! Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Δx = ħ/2Δp iTrader: (5) Posts: 3,190 Rep Power: 20	I am hoping to at least get the car running before i leave for basic. When i get back i plan on building another engine for it. But i should be able to see what kind of power i can get out of a stock port engine. __________________ For current updates and event coverage check out Follow on Twitter! @WhizbangRally Whizbang Rally's Webpage \| Facebook

04-04-2009, 02:30 PM	#55
Whizbang Respecognize! Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Δx = ħ/2Δp iTrader: (5) Posts: 3,190 Rep Power: 20	Peejay just made 170 with his streetport setup on a megasquirt via Dynopaks __________________ For current updates and event coverage check out Follow on Twitter! @WhizbangRally Whizbang Rally's Webpage \| Facebook

03-18-2009, 07:27 AM	#47
SleepeR1st The Newbie Join Date: Jun 2008 iTrader: (0) Posts: 9 Rep Power: 0	^^ Can you tell me that setup and where to buy those parts? I'm very interested in setting up an ITB setup but i want to stick with FI not carbeurators.

04-02-2009, 11:36 PM	#53
Roen Evil Club Mod Join Date: Feb 2008 iTrader: (0) Posts: 183 Rep Power: 17	Streetport, that's all i know.

04-21-2009, 03:09 PM	#56
Whizbang Respecognize! Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Δx = ħ/2Δp iTrader: (5) Posts: 3,190 Rep Power: 20	Well the 13B starts. Going to attempt some rought tuning but i leave in 6 days for basic so i wont be back to touch it again til September. __________________ For current updates and event coverage check out Follow on Twitter! @WhizbangRally Whizbang Rally's Webpage \| Facebook

04-21-2009, 03:25 PM	#57
My5ABaby Sigh..... Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Murfreesboro, TN iTrader: (6) Posts: 2,377 Rep Power: 19	What ITB is that? __________________ 1986 Sport: 132k miles, 5A (Sapphire Blue Metallic), Tokico Blues, Racing Beat Springs, Custom LED tailights (only S4 LED tails in the world), SSR Mark II, Racing Beat exhaust, S5 black interior, Rotary Resurrection rebuild at 120k miles Community Service Manual RotorWiki "Imagination costs nothing; we could build square locomotives or fly to Mars" - Felix Wankel Yesterday is history, tomorrow is a mystery, but today is a gift. That is why it is called the "present."

04-21-2009, 03:33 PM	#58
Whizbang Respecognize! Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Δx = ħ/2Δp iTrader: (5) Posts: 3,190 Rep Power: 20	efi hardware Pro Race with the tapered air horns. (be non sized down version of that pic makes a great desktop pic) __________________ For current updates and event coverage check out Follow on Twitter! @WhizbangRally Whizbang Rally's Webpage \| Facebook Last edited by Whizbang; 04-21-2009 at 03:35 PM..

06-17-2009, 01:53 AM	#59
chickenwafer Boost Whore Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Northern Colorado iTrader: (0) Posts: 33 Rep Power: 0	Can RX-8's play? LOL When I was NA I made 202-rwhp and 132 tq on a stock keg (no porting) and running the factory EMS (no tune). I had the stock intake and cat in place. For all the crap the Renesis gets sometimes in NA form it's actually not too shabby

06-19-2009, 02:53 PM	#60
diabolical1 I have radioactive semen Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: in a bottle of Glenfiddich iTrader: (0) Posts: 249 Rep Power: 17	no question that their power is comparatively impressive, but i must say that i've been a bit disappointed with reliability - not of the motor, but the whole car.