NRS ceramic corner seals

thewird · 12-28-2009, 04:03 PM

Yah, I was planning to get the motor rebuilt over the winter but my builder went to Florida for ~3 weeks. Also, was talking to an RX-8 owner who wanted to rebuild his engine with ceramic 2-piece 3mm seals (which is the reason for my questions in the other thread). So I guess that would account for both and I should order soon before someone else does. What is the current pricing on the seals with springs? Would it be cheaper to get it through my builder ^_^

I'd be interested to help out in testing if I can. Dave from Mazdee's is the one who builds my motors and from our talks you guys know each other somewhat well. So when we open up motors, we could relay any particular information your looking for.

The 32,000 km were put on in about a year so both Dave and I are very interested in what the internals of the motor look like with the ceramic seals considering I've been running 16-17 PSi (pump gas) on the track for 30 minutes sessions with 1850*F EGT's, over 15 track days this season, and the later ones were at 20 PSi with water injection and a touch of meth occasionally. Also, drove the car down to the deals gap in North Carolina and then to Florida so its had lots of long drives. Also, ran exclusively on the OMP only and only added some unmetered amounts of 2-stroke into the gas for track days.

thewird

glassman · 12-28-2009, 05:44 PM

We could possibly work something out for testing with Dave after Pineapple is finished but I would have to see what I have for 3mm CS. I will be looking forward to seeing pics of your engine on tear down

The 3mm 2pc seals are $1150.25 + GST.....it doesn't get better than that for 2pc ceramic seals

The springs are $140.00 + GST

Total for both sets with springs $2580.50 + 129.03 = $2709.53 plus shipping.

LMK if you want to go ahead and we'll sort out payment and shipping.
Thanks

thewird · 12-28-2009, 07:52 PM

Yah, I do but the RX-8 owner would have to order them for himself. I don't have his contact and Dave is on holidays so I can't let him know until he comes back. Hopefully they don't get sold by then. Worst case he has to wait for your next batch. So please let me know how I would proceed with my order. Thanks.

Also, forgot to mention these seals are your spotted seals that were in the oven too long ^_^. I'd like to say I love them.

Reason being when I was down at the gap, I was running a fuel pump backup wire which was too thin since my relay died. So the wire overheated and caused a fuel pressure drop causing me to go into a really bad lean condition. We had stopped at the bottom after a good while of going up and down the gap. When we left we all opened it up. I heard a strange sound which I realized after was AUDIBLE detonation, I looked down at my wideband while I was still WOT and saw 14.x AFR @ 16 pounds of boost. When I finally let off 2-3 seconds later, I immediately assumed engines gone. But to my surprise it sounded normal. I then tried it again to confirm and the same thing happened so I puttered it back to the cabin until I could fix the fuel issue. This was at around 5,000-10,000 km in the life of the engine. It has continued to run fine all season and now has 32,000 km. There is nothing wrong the engine, me and Dave are just curious on the internals. Anyway, just wanted to say I love your seals.

However, I always wonder if I had the same seals but in 2-piece if if they would have been so resilient. Thoughts?

thewird

glassman · 12-28-2009, 08:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thewird

However, I always wonder if I had the same seals but in 2-piece if if they would have been so resilient. Thoughts?
thewird

You know that is a really good question, I often wondered the same myself. The 2pc seal is subjected to a lot different operating conditions as opposed to the 1pc seal which floats and never touches the plates. The only obvious difference from a design point would be where the 45 degree split is between the pcs. But from an operating perspective it could be a whole different ball game. Some claim the 1pc seal is overall stronger for this reason.

NRS 2pc seals are like the old Rotary Truck type where the wedge sits under the main bar and never contacts the rotor housing. This will give full positive sealing from the get go without having to gouge the rotor housing to establish contact with the main bar. This also makes the tip of the main bar much stronger and less prone to chipping off as it no longer comes to a razor point.

glassman · 12-28-2009, 08:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thewird

Also, forgot to mention these seals are your spotted seals that were in the oven too long ^_^. I'd like to say I love them.
thewird

GREAT!!

Glad to get some feedback on those!

thewird · 12-29-2009, 02:18 AM

Oh, I forgot another test of endurance these seals prevailed through. In 2008 just before the winter when I got my new engine with the seals. The turbo oil seals let loose and all the oil drained out of the motor. I ignored the OEM oil pressure gauge and kept driving. 10 minutes later the car started losing power (I was driving on the highway) and I noticed it was blowing a ton of smoke out the back. Pulled over and long story short most of the engine was toast. Rotors, bearings, side seals, endplates etc. were all junk on a 2,000 km rebuild.

But surprisingly the rotor housings and seals were perfectly fine! This was great news for me since the rotor housing were brand new with 2,000 km on them and same with the seals which are mucho money.

Here's some pics of the destruction if you care to look...

http://thewirdsdomain.com/rx7/engine/11-07-08_1220.jpg
http://thewirdsdomain.com/rx7/engine/11-07-08_1221.jpg
http://thewirdsdomain.com/rx7/engine/11-07-08_1313.jpg
http://thewirdsdomain.com/rx7/engine/11-07-08_1314.jpg

thewird

Monkman33 · 01-29-2010, 01:44 AM

Any update on the Corner seals?

glassman · 01-29-2010, 12:02 PM

Not yet, I still need to get some of the heavier springs to Rob for the testing. These should be ready this coming week and then we can get started.

glassman · 01-29-2010, 12:05 PM

Just spoke to the shop doing the springs and they will be ready for the first of next week. Hopefully Rob can get right on it. Will post when I have more news.

Monkman33 · 02-10-2010, 01:18 AM

This is great news!

howard coleman · 02-10-2010, 09:30 AM

love my NRS apex seals/springs.

i recently dis-assembled my motor that ran in 09 and found the rotor housings literally looking exactly like they did when i assembeled the motor. no trace of wear anywhere.
the seals/springs looked unused. the motor was making 507 SAE rwhp at 20 psi w around 20% methanol.

the motor was steadily gaining compression during the year and could have easily reassembled as was. i took it down to swap the rear iron for an automatic rear plate as i am switching to a T56 for my 200 mph run at the Texas Mile.

thanks NRS!

howard coleman

www.colemanprecisionrotaries.com

***TitaniumTT*** · 02-10-2010, 09:55 AM

I often wondered what the reasoning was with the 2 piece mazda design that needs to gouge the housing in order to make a total seal. The older mazda truck seals and the NRS seals from a function point would seem to seal better with less damage to the rotor housing.

Howard, are you running the facoty MOP setup or premixing in the fuel tank? What brand and what ratio?

glassman · 02-10-2010, 11:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by howard coleman

love my NRS apex seals/springs.

i recently dis-assembled my motor that ran in 09 and found the rotor housings literally looking exactly like they did when i assembeled the motor. no trace of wear anywhere.
the seals/springs looked unused. the motor was making 507 SAE rwhp at 20 psi w around 20% methanol.

the motor was steadily gaining compression during the year and could have easily reassembled as was. i took it down to swap the rear iron for an automatic rear plate as i am switching to a T56 for my 200 mph run at the Texas Mile.

thanks NRS!

howard coleman

www.colemanprecisionrotaries.com

You are welcome Howard! Thanks for the shiny review. This is what makes it all worthwile. Hey can you post this in the apex seals thread?

howard coleman · 02-10-2010, 09:04 PM

"are you running the factory MOP setup or premixing in the fuel tank? What brand and what ratio?"

i do not run the factory EOP. i also remove it from all motors i build. i mix 1/2 oz per gallon for street and 1 oz per gallon for dyno and track.

i use Super Tech (Walmart) brand 2 cycle oil.

love it.

BTW, my NRS seals are one piece.

hc

glassman · 02-10-2010, 09:45 PM

Hey Howard, could you put up some pics of those rotor housings and the apex seals? If you could put it on the "test results" thread that would be great.

12-28-2009, 04:03 PM	#31
thewird Rotary Fan in Training Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Toronto, Canada iTrader: (0) Posts: 37 Rep Power: 0	Yah, I was planning to get the motor rebuilt over the winter but my builder went to Florida for ~3 weeks. Also, was talking to an RX-8 owner who wanted to rebuild his engine with ceramic 2-piece 3mm seals (which is the reason for my questions in the other thread). So I guess that would account for both and I should order soon before someone else does. What is the current pricing on the seals with springs? Would it be cheaper to get it through my builder ^_^ I'd be interested to help out in testing if I can. Dave from Mazdee's is the one who builds my motors and from our talks you guys know each other somewhat well. So when we open up motors, we could relay any particular information your looking for. The 32,000 km were put on in about a year so both Dave and I are very interested in what the internals of the motor look like with the ceramic seals considering I've been running 16-17 PSi (pump gas) on the track for 30 minutes sessions with 1850*F EGT's, over 15 track days this season, and the later ones were at 20 PSi with water injection and a touch of meth occasionally. Also, drove the car down to the deals gap in North Carolina and then to Florida so its had lots of long drives. Also, ran exclusively on the OMP only and only added some unmetered amounts of 2-stroke into the gas for track days. thewird __________________

12-28-2009, 05:44 PM	#32
glassman Premium Vendor Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Canada iTrader: (0) Posts: 173 Rep Power: 17	We could possibly work something out for testing with Dave after Pineapple is finished but I would have to see what I have for 3mm CS. I will be looking forward to seeing pics of your engine on tear down The 3mm 2pc seals are $1150.25 + GST.....it doesn't get better than that for 2pc ceramic seals The springs are $140.00 + GST Total for both sets with springs $2580.50 + 129.03 = $2709.53 plus shipping. LMK if you want to go ahead and we'll sort out payment and shipping. Thanks __________________ Mild to wild, street to strip, when you want to go fast and you want your engine to last, NRS Ceramics is the only way to go. NRS Rotorsports nrsrotorsports@shaw.ca www.nrsrotorsports.com

12-28-2009, 07:52 PM	#33
thewird Rotary Fan in Training Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Toronto, Canada iTrader: (0) Posts: 37 Rep Power: 0	Yah, I do but the RX-8 owner would have to order them for himself. I don't have his contact and Dave is on holidays so I can't let him know until he comes back. Hopefully they don't get sold by then. Worst case he has to wait for your next batch. So please let me know how I would proceed with my order. Thanks. Also, forgot to mention these seals are your spotted seals that were in the oven too long ^_^. I'd like to say I love them. Reason being when I was down at the gap, I was running a fuel pump backup wire which was too thin since my relay died. So the wire overheated and caused a fuel pressure drop causing me to go into a really bad lean condition. We had stopped at the bottom after a good while of going up and down the gap. When we left we all opened it up. I heard a strange sound which I realized after was AUDIBLE detonation, I looked down at my wideband while I was still WOT and saw 14.x AFR @ 16 pounds of boost. When I finally let off 2-3 seconds later, I immediately assumed engines gone. But to my surprise it sounded normal. I then tried it again to confirm and the same thing happened so I puttered it back to the cabin until I could fix the fuel issue. This was at around 5,000-10,000 km in the life of the engine. It has continued to run fine all season and now has 32,000 km. There is nothing wrong the engine, me and Dave are just curious on the internals. Anyway, just wanted to say I love your seals. However, I always wonder if I had the same seals but in 2-piece if if they would have been so resilient. Thoughts? thewird __________________

12-29-2009, 02:18 AM	#36
thewird Rotary Fan in Training Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Toronto, Canada iTrader: (0) Posts: 37 Rep Power: 0	Oh, I forgot another test of endurance these seals prevailed through. In 2008 just before the winter when I got my new engine with the seals. The turbo oil seals let loose and all the oil drained out of the motor. I ignored the OEM oil pressure gauge and kept driving. 10 minutes later the car started losing power (I was driving on the highway) and I noticed it was blowing a ton of smoke out the back. Pulled over and long story short most of the engine was toast. Rotors, bearings, side seals, endplates etc. were all junk on a 2,000 km rebuild. But surprisingly the rotor housings and seals were perfectly fine! This was great news for me since the rotor housing were brand new with 2,000 km on them and same with the seals which are mucho money. Here's some pics of the destruction if you care to look... http://thewirdsdomain.com/rx7/engine/11-07-08_1220.jpg http://thewirdsdomain.com/rx7/engine/11-07-08_1221.jpg http://thewirdsdomain.com/rx7/engine/11-07-08_1313.jpg http://thewirdsdomain.com/rx7/engine/11-07-08_1314.jpg thewird __________________

01-29-2010, 12:02 PM	#38
glassman Premium Vendor Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Canada iTrader: (0) Posts: 173 Rep Power: 17	Not yet, I still need to get some of the heavier springs to Rob for the testing. These should be ready this coming week and then we can get started. __________________ Mild to wild, street to strip, when you want to go fast and you want your engine to last, NRS Ceramics is the only way to go. NRS Rotorsports nrsrotorsports@shaw.ca www.nrsrotorsports.com

01-29-2010, 01:44 AM	#37
Monkman33 Still Building my FD Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Pasco, WA iTrader: (1) Posts: 255 Rep Power: 16	Any update on the Corner seals?

01-29-2010, 12:05 PM	#39
glassman Premium Vendor Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Canada iTrader: (0) Posts: 173 Rep Power: 17	Just spoke to the shop doing the springs and they will be ready for the first of next week. Hopefully Rob can get right on it. Will post when I have more news. __________________ Mild to wild, street to strip, when you want to go fast and you want your engine to last, NRS Ceramics is the only way to go. NRS Rotorsports nrsrotorsports@shaw.ca www.nrsrotorsports.com

02-10-2010, 01:18 AM	#40
Monkman33 Still Building my FD Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Pasco, WA iTrader: (1) Posts: 255 Rep Power: 16	This is great news!

02-10-2010, 09:30 AM	#41
howard coleman The Newbie Join Date: Dec 2008 iTrader: (0) Posts: 17 Rep Power: 0	love my NRS apex seals/springs. i recently dis-assembled my motor that ran in 09 and found the rotor housings literally looking exactly like they did when i assembeled the motor. no trace of wear anywhere. the seals/springs looked unused. the motor was making 507 SAE rwhp at 20 psi w around 20% methanol. the motor was steadily gaining compression during the year and could have easily reassembled as was. i took it down to swap the rear iron for an automatic rear plate as i am switching to a T56 for my 200 mph run at the Texas Mile. thanks NRS! howard coleman www.colemanprecisionrotaries.com

02-10-2010, 09:55 AM	#42
*TitaniumTT* Test Whore - Admin Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Right Behind you son iTrader: (4) Posts: 4,581 Rep Power: 10	I often wondered what the reasoning was with the 2 piece mazda design that needs to gouge the housing in order to make a total seal. The older mazda truck seals and the NRS seals from a function point would seem to seal better with less damage to the rotor housing. Howard, are you running the facoty MOP setup or premixing in the fuel tank? What brand and what ratio? __________________ -The Angry Stig- DGRR 2009, 2011, 2012 & 2013 - Best FC DEALS GAP!! WOOHOOOO!!!!! 2015 Audi S4 - Samantha - Zero Brap S4 2004 RX8 - Jocelyn - 196rwhp, 19mpg fuel to noise converter 2000 Jeep Cherokee Sport - Wifey mobile - Now with 2.5" OME lift and 30" BFG AT KO's! So it begins 1998 Jeep Cherokee - 5 spd, 4" lift, 33" BFG's - Rotary Tow Vehicle 1988 'Vert - In progress 1988 FC Coupe - Gretchen -The attention whore BEAST! I'm a sick individual, what's wrong with you? I'm pure Evil I'm still insane, in the best possible way. I think Brian's idea of romance is using lube. Your rage caused the meteor strike in Russia. The Antichrist would be proud of his minion. You win with your thread. Most everything It's a truck with a steel gate on the back. Just a statement of fact Motec M820, AIM dash, ported 13B-RE Cosmo, 6-spd trans, 4.3 Torsen, custom twin wg fully divided mani, Custom 4" split into 2x 3" exhaust, Custom HMIC, Custom custom custom custom I like to welder stuff.... No Bolt-ons allowed. Dyno'ed @ Speed1 Tuned by me - 405rwhp on WG.... WM50 cuming soon. *-Angry Motherfcker Mode ENGAGED-**

02-10-2010, 09:04 PM	#44
howard coleman The Newbie Join Date: Dec 2008 iTrader: (0) Posts: 17 Rep Power: 0	"are you running the factory MOP setup or premixing in the fuel tank? What brand and what ratio?" i do not run the factory EOP. i also remove it from all motors i build. i mix 1/2 oz per gallon for street and 1 oz per gallon for dyno and track. i use Super Tech (Walmart) brand 2 cycle oil. love it. BTW, my NRS seals are one piece. hc

02-10-2010, 09:45 PM	#45
glassman Premium Vendor Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Canada iTrader: (0) Posts: 173 Rep Power: 17	Hey Howard, could you put up some pics of those rotor housings and the apex seals? If you could put it on the "test results" thread that would be great. __________________ Mild to wild, street to strip, when you want to go fast and you want your engine to last, NRS Ceramics is the only way to go. NRS Rotorsports nrsrotorsports@shaw.ca www.nrsrotorsports.com