Turbo on RX-8

[Herblenny]

Originally Posted by BBullet8

well regardless of what you all think I will turbo my car with that turbo.

It is your money... But I'm trying to help you see why it will be waste of your money...

That manifold is JUNK!!! Go look at other turbo manifolds... Others have much better design!!

If I were to run the turbo on renesis (I will never do as I think its waste of money) I would get either greddy manifold or mazsport, get a nice small ball bearing turbo, and get that powermod ems or other piggy back that will let you datalog and tune yourself. The whole cold air intake BS with 2-3 90degree bend is BS. Just put a filter or screen on your turbo. IC is important when you get into high boost.. but you are not going to make more than 10lbs with out going into changing your fuel system.

I mean, if I were to go do all this, I would just put a REW with stock twins (99 280s)! Thats what Mazda should of done fromt he beginning. with 280 99 twins, you'll get great response with max turbo potential of about 380RWHP (16-18lbs) and could run it reliably.

[RCCAZ 1]

Guys,

MazdaManiac here in Phoenix has probably the best kit on the market for making power (Greddy Kit with upgraded turbo). He also is an expert on the Cobb Access port, which is quickly becoming the tool of choice for unlocking the potential of the stock Mazda EMS.

[Phoenix7]

Greddy kits are RE-Amemiya kits renamed for the U.S. MArket aren't they?

[Herblenny]

Originally Posted by RCCAZ 1

Guys,

MazdaManiac here in Phoenix has probably the best kit on the market for making power (Greddy Kit with upgraded turbo). He also is an expert on the Cobb Access port, which is quickly becoming the tool of choice for unlocking the potential of the stock Mazda EMS.

Hope He will get on and describe more about this Cobb Access thing....

[fikren]

I think there are probabley plenty of places that offer a "nice" kit. I think the main point of Phil's thread though was does the cost of these "nice" kits compared to the relativly small gains justify turboing the 8's engine or would it be better money spent to do some sort of swap.

[mazdamaniac]

Originally Posted by RCCAZ 1

Guys,

MazdaManiac here in Phoenix has probably the best kit on the market for making power (Greddy Kit with upgraded turbo). He also is an expert on the Cobb Access port, which is quickly becoming the tool of choice for unlocking the potential of the stock Mazda EMS.

Thanks Tim. You are too kind.

Originally Posted by phoenix7

Greddy kits are RE-Amemiya kits renamed for the U.S. MArket aren't they?

No. Amemiya re-badged the GReddy kit for his A/T application. Repriced it accordingly as well!
The GReddy kit fits all RX-8 applications without retrofit, so Im' not sure what the JDM response was to the Amemiya offering.

Originally Posted by Herblenny

Hope He will get on and describe more about this Cobb Access thing....

I'll jump in your thread about that.

Its interesting to me, coming here for the first time, how insulated the markets can get.
Some of the discussion in this thread is straight out of RX-8Club, circa 2005!

You can read about my GReddy upgrade on my site (link is in my SIG - click on Satan's Hairdryer)

As far as output from the various offerings (build quality aside), you can use these graphics for comparison:

[Herblenny]

WOW! Mazsport one is laggy!!

MM version looks the best so far

[BBullet8]

what I think is that there are enough people on this site that are smart enough and know enough people to build a kit that will be most efficient and fairly cheap. it just seems to me that we all complain about something yet we do nothing. Phil I know that you have done a lot with the 7s is there anything that you have learned from those that we could apply to the 8 and make it awesome.

[mazdamaniac]

Air = Power.
That is pretty much all there is to it.
Folks will go on about "lag" (which it usually isn't) and "boost" (which is a symptom, not an effect) and sometimes "flow" will be mentioned in the same breath as "restriction" or "loss", which isn't strictly possible.
You move air mass through an engine. It makes power. That is all there is to it.
You need to select the proper device for the job and then give it a place to live and breathe.
The problem is, superstition, tradition and secrecy abound in all levels of this hobby/industry - mostly fostered by a fear of being wrong or being "found out". Often, its just plain sloth.

For the most part, if someone claims to "know the secret" but won't talk about it, its because they don't "know the secret". Mainly, because there isn't one.

I tend to go the other way. When I've figured something out, I lay it all out there. I've got nothing to protect. Those that already know how to do this stuff already know what I know.
Those that don't, won't learn a damn thing to save their life, so who cares what they see.

The only good reason to hold your cards close is to protect your mental health.
I keep most of my "tuning secrets" to myself just because I don't want to answer the million questions from people that are striving to misapply my data. If you know this stuff, there is nothing I can say to improve your hand.

[WE3RX7]

I've been on vacation so sorry for the delay in this post.

Yep - I had an '04 Turbo 8. It was the first greddy kit produced and came with the shitty e-manage. The car NEVER drove right with the "bolt-on" kit from Greddy. Once the interceptor-x became available, the e-manage was quickly ditched for it. I had used microtech before on other 7s, so the interceptor-x was a much more comfortable area to play in.

I ran the car up 8.5psi to 7K RPM at which time the stock GReddy wastegate configuration flipped out and would fluctuate from 3psi to 7psi every 500rpm or so.

The car never made over 300whp, but did drive very smooth, full boost at 2200rpm and was very "useable".

I'll answer any technical detail you might want - but the short and sweet is my current 8 will stay NA. Turbo Renesis' just arent worth it.

[fikren]

Originally Posted by WE3RX7

I've been on vacation so sorry for the delay in this post.

Yep - I had an '04 Turbo 8. It was the first greddy kit produced and came with the shitty e-manage. The car NEVER drove right with the "bolt-on" kit from Greddy. Once the interceptor-x became available, the e-manage was quickly ditched for it. I had used microtech before on other 7s, so the interceptor-x was a much more comfortable area to play in.

I ran the car up 8.5psi to 7K RPM at which time the stock GReddy wastegate configuration flipped out and would fluctuate from 3psi to 7psi every 500rpm or so.

The car never made over 300whp, but did drive very smooth, full boost at 2200rpm and was very "useable".

I'll answer any technical detail you might want - but the short and sweet is my current 8 will stay NA. Turbo Renesis' just arent worth it.

Would you say your problems were with adding a turbo to the renesis or would you say the problems were more the greddy turbo kit (wastegates and all) and ecu problems. I guess what I'm getting at was it the turbo and engine as a whole that left a sour taste in your mouth or possibly just the components that left a sour taste?

[fikren]

Originally Posted by mazdamaniac

I'll jump in your thread about that.

Its interesting to me, coming here for the first time, how insulated the markets can get.
Some of the discussion in this thread is straight out of RX-8Club, circa 2005!

You can read about my GReddy upgrade on my site (link is in my SIG - click on Satan's Hairdryer)

As far as output from the various offerings (build quality aside), you can use these graphics for comparison:

Curious as to what your $6200 kit includes. I briefly looked at the website and saw just a garret upgrade kit and the accessport listed. What does the kit you have listed for the dyno stuff at 6200 include.

Also what exactly is the biggest holdback on the engine. I guess I'm more use to the 7's where its almost the sky's the limit (within reason) with turbo size, boost, etc. What exactly is holding the 8 back, is it the exhaust ports, or what. On the 7 its common to see 850cc primarys and 1600cc secondaries yet on the 8 it seems to be 5-600cc injectors. Are we speaking in general terms as a "easy" bolt on without major modifications and thats why leaving the option of new fuel system etc opening alot more doors or is it just the engine itself.

Thanks for chimming in on these posts too, its nice to get some good info for those that are interested.

[WE3RX7]

To be honest, its a combination of things that turn me off from wanting to do the turbo renesis again. Cost, time, resources, frustration, etc

As a whole, I was pretty happy with the end result. The car had what the renesis was missing, which was a bottom end and STRONG mid range that pulled. The problem was it fell off at 7k, no matter what you do, that problem is in the hardware. I think with a different turbo and manifold setup, the renesis exhaust ports would easily support upwards of 10-13psi and make well over 300whp all day long reliably, but at what cost?

The biggest problem is the engine. I just dont see a configuration that will come online early enough and still maintain a high enough level of boost to make big numbers (500+) on the renesis. I hope someday I'm shown differently. I'd love to see a bolt on 500whp kit for the renesis...

Probably the biggest turn off is that I was/am a seven guy. You can get so much more for much less effort with an old style 13B.

I am still VERY happy with the NA 8s power though. Sure, my current 8 doesnt have the HP the last one did, but its still fun. I think with all the bolt ons and the soon to come out RB header - the NA renesis will make plenty of good power for a daily driver and weekend track day. After all, its still a 200+ hp NA 13B, thats good in any book.

My big HP goals will be achieved the old fashioned way - big port, big turbo, old car

[Phoenix7]

^^^ isn't that like asking for a 400hp bolt-on kit for the NA FC? It seems a tad on the idealistic/dream side to want 500hp bolt-on for the NA 13B or am I not giving the Renesis due credit?

[85rx-7gsl-se]

Originally Posted by phoenix7

^^^ isn't that like asking for a 400hp bolt-on kit for the NA FC? It seems a tad on the idealistic/dream side to want 500hp bolt-on for the NA 13B or am I not giving the Renesis due credit?

I believe that is his point, he would love to see it happen, but knows it won't happen