Drifting, hellaflush, slammed, tire stretch blog/bash thread.

[vex]

Originally Posted by sofaking

1) I didn't say that running stretched tires makes you faster. I said, "Stretching the tire gives it predictable characteristics on the track, removing the ability for the sidewall to roll negates having to correct for it." Learn to read. Arguing with logical fallacies and misunderstood points doesn't make you right (I guess technically in your mind it does). I made a statement and I've put it to the test in the real world and it does exactly what I said it does.

And completely negates the speed rating of the tire. Sidewall deformation caused by stretching not only results in premature tire failure, but also eliminates the speed rating as viable metric to ensure safety of the car.

For yours and other consideration I quote the following from individuals in the business of mounting as well as designing the tires:

If you perform this miscarriage, then you (not the customer) will be liable if the tire fails unexpectedly because of incorrect fitment. You have enabled the customer to drive on a tire/wheel combination that is not sanctioned or recommended by competent authorities in the tire industry. It is just the same as installing a tire with less load capacity than the OE fitment. DO NOT DO IT! Just ask any expert witness in a suit involving tire failure if you doubt my words.

If you want to loose your business for a few dollars of profit, then it sounds like a great idea. All of the tires I have seen that have been stretched have a lower load rating than the car requires also. We used to send them to another business in town that was doing stretching but he had to close after a lawsuit cleaned him out.

Without getting too technical, when a wider or narrower tire is placed on a width wheel that is out of spec. for the size, a whole change of dynamics will occur to the tire. Number one is safety. Safety not only to the operator, but to the installer. Bead rupture is a possibility as the tire tries to conform itself unrightly to a too narrow or too wide wheel. Safety to the customer because the tires rated performance is greatly reduced, ie; speed rating, air pressure, load carrying capacity, wear characteristics, traction, bead leaking, just to mention a few.

I've done a couple AFTER explaining to the customer who was well aware of the dangers of such a setup. These guys are practicing on a drift circuit and says the Hipari setup makes drift sessions easier because of less traction and smaller contact patch. We don't mount the wheels on the car however. I've been to the drift session unknowing to the guys and saw them mounting their wheels at the circuit so I'm pretty comfortable knowing these guys are responsible and do not run these wheels on public roads.

I can go on if you'd like. But you get the issue. Stretching the tire really has no benefit beyond aesthetics (but last I checked cars were meant to be driven).

2) @RETed Do you know anything about drifting? I liken it to rally from the standpoint of damage to the car. If you can afford to re-paint your car every event that's awesome. Most of the pros can't justify that. Not to mention that there are people that give anything a bad name and tend to try and look shitty because it's inevitable that they're going to destroy something nice. Drifting is a sport of style, looks fall into the style category.

You do realize he's friends with some people that participate in such events and perform well without having to deform the tires until they are completely out of spec, ya?

3) @RotorDad There have got to be a bunch of morons in VA. Out here in Colorado we understand you can't warranty a tire for camber wear and drifting on them. Like responsible people we deal with the consequences of our actions and buy new tires when we need them. It's sad that they've resorted to denying warranties to stretched tire owners. No doubt related to dumbasses doing dumbass things. I'd be curious if there is a real reason behind this or if its just some old dude arguing how they never did it back in the day and technology hasn't changed and nothing has been made better since 1902. (I love these arguments, they remind me of the one I'm having right now.)

On the contrary, see the above quotes from installers and individuals in the business. Even if they tell you it's bad and you insist upon it being mounted, and a family dies because you used your predictable vehicle behavior to slam into them, who's going to take the heat for all those who died? You? Or are you going to let the buck go to the individual that broke the law in mounting your tire?

4) Sounds like you would get a ticket for following too closely. If you're driving at the legally suggested distance you can react to potholes before you hit them.

Sounds like you have pristine roads and conditions to avoid all pot holes ever made.

5) I'm not asking you to "admit you're wrong" I don't really care. I just decided to hop on here and argue because I'm bored and you're idiots. Find something where someone didn't hit a curb or a pothole and had problems with their stretched tires. I haven't seen any information to back up that it doesn't work well. I'm capable of saying that I'm sure having the sidewall vertical probably offers better performance (in a grip racing situation). But since you're all arguing about how you have street cars and drive them on the street, you're not pushing the tires to the limit anyway.

Do you really want me to get the information I already posted from a tire designer to prove you have altered the tire dynamics to no benefit? Just curious.

On another note. No, I have never been on Boostimports. Also, is it just me or does anyone else see the irony of both of your screen names?
reted, retard
rotordad, retarded
I'm just glad to be able to argue with people at length about things they have no experience with. I look forward to the incredibly insightful replies that I'm sure are coming.

Yes, because you're the authority on suspension setups... how?

[josh18_2k]

what use is information without a source? as far as i can tell, everything you quoted could be from the guy at les schwabb
all the arguments in this thread seem to be speculation. i've never seen/read about a tire failure due to stretching, altho the internet is pretty vast. i have however seen a properly sized tire dismount itself on track during a drift run. that was some comedy

also please leave the whole grip racing performance aspect out of this.. no one is claiming a streched tire offers better traction, so i dont know why it keeps being brought up. i rarely see any drift people try to lecture about grip, and when they do im usually the first to rectify the situation lol

[Max777]

Originally Posted by iani1.1

dude, no it doesnt. the springs just wont allow for your suspension to bottom out unless your trying to pull some duke of hazzard. that with stock suspension and what not.

Yes it will, if you drift your car with a proper set up:

alignment
bump steer/angle adjustable tie rod ends
corner balance
proper wheel travel

I am arguing FOR stretched tires, yet even I can tell you don't have an in-depth understanding of suspension at all.

EDIT:

Originally Posted by iani1.1

-sigh- but only a damn idiot would drive it that low or if youre really brave. also springs prevent the strut from bottoming out whether its fully compressed or not.

face it, just admit your wrong and the wheel does fit, its streetable and it fits. there's 3 pictures that prove it and 1 pointless one you wanted posted. so dude just stop you lost

No it doesnt... the bump stop does... =)

We recently had a volvo in our shop that had under 60,000k on it.. one of the front struts was blown to all hell, the other one was fine.

When I took apart the blown side, guess what? It had no bumpstop! If, like you say, it was the spring that controls the shock travel, why did the strut blow?

Spring: cusions the initial impact
shock: controls the repeated movement of the spring so that the car doesnt bounce up and down all the time
bump stop: prevents the shock from bottoming out under full compression of the shock absorber.

[RETed]

Originally Posted by sofaking

1) I didn't say that running stretched tires makes you faster. I said, "Stretching the tire gives it predictable characteristics on the track, removing the ability for the sidewall to roll negates having to correct for it." Learn to read. Arguing with logical fallacies and misunderstood points doesn't make you right (I guess technically in your mind it does). I made a statement and I've put it to the test in the real world and it does exactly what I said it does.

One person's "preditable" is another person's "unpredictable".
Again, another subjective opinion.
You're in your own fantasy world if you think THAT'S objective.
I think you need to learn and comprehend...

Dictionary.COM
"objective" : not influenced by personal feelings, interpretations, or prejudice; based on facts; unbiased; intent upon or dealing with things external to the mind rather than with thoughts or feelings, as a person or a book.

Basically what you FEEL don't count as shit.

OBJECTIVE is who is quicker using a stopwatch.
OBJECTIVE is who is faster using a speed gun.

Oh shit, you don't want to do none of that...
I guess we will never know, huh.

@RETed Do you know anything about drifting? I liken it to rally from the standpoint of damage to the car. If you can afford to re-paint your car every event that's awesome. Most of the pros can't justify that. Not to mention that there are people that give anything a bad name and tend to try and look shitty because it's inevitable that they're going to destroy something nice. Drifting is a sport of style, looks fall into the style category.

Hey, I'm not the one CLAIMING drift cars look prettier...
Why don't you go reread your butt buddies comments earlier?

4) Sounds like you would get a ticket for following too closely. If you're driving at the legally suggested distance you can react to potholes before you hit them.

I think these guys seriously live in some pristine roads...

5) I'm not asking you to "admit you're wrong" I don't really care. I just decided to hop on here and argue because I'm bored and you're idiots.

Ah, finally the truth comes out...
Got bored on the other forum?
Got tired of your fanboi groupies kissing your ass so much?
Or did you pique the ire of a mod(s)?
So this whole tirade was you morons just coming in here causing trouble...
I guess you don't mind being banned and getting kicked out of here, huh.

Find something where someone didn't hit a curb or a pothole and had problems with their stretched tires. I haven't seen any information to back up that it doesn't work well.

Useless argument...
You morons refuse to put that shit on a real track and put some times up.
We were talking OBJECTIVE.
Why bother?
All you're going to do is bitch and moan about how drifting is about style (SUBJECTIVE).
Waste of time.

Oh, and get it right.
I don't think anyone said it would not work.
I think the point was that it's NOT RECOMMENDED.
COMPREHEND.
You morons already call the tire manufacturers and tire engineers idiots...

I'm capable of saying that I'm sure having the sidewall vertical probably offers better performance (in a grip racing situation). But since you're all arguing about how you have street cars and drive them on the street, you're not pushing the tires to the limit anyway.

So you're impying you drift on public streets?

reted, retard

I can't even give you a point on creativity.
You must've flunked art.
No wonder you just follow the flock like sheep.

I'm just glad to be able to argue with people at length about things they have no experience with. I look forward to the incredibly insightful replies that I'm sure are coming.

Ah, another fantasy world comment...
Glad we could accomodate you.
Enjoy it before your ass is banned.


-Ted

[iani1.1]

i thought this thread was done. well, for me anyways lol

and max777 i agree with your statement but im soo underpowered to a point where i can keep the car low but the spring keeps my car at height. nowhere close to where bump stops should be or is. with that wheel travel is sufficient for my setup, my car doest squat enough to rub or bottom out going through a corner.

[sofaking]

Defining objective with an emotional argument: awesome.

@classicauto without knowing my suspension setup you can't tell me what part of my suspension flexes the most under load. The tire did make a large difference to the handling of the car when placed up front. Previously before that I was running the same type tire on a 17x7.5 wheel. As for the pot hole thing, I've hit them when not paying attention. I've not hit one while paying attention. I adjust the steering wheel to accommodate for them while driving on the street. Obviously yes, if the lip of the wheel is exposed it's more prone to damage. I'm not saying pothole don't exist, I'm saying be proactive about keeping your wheels nice.

@speedjunkie probably the most valid argument yet. I live in Denver, driven in probably 20 states and 5 other countries. I apparently just don't find potholes as unavoidable as the rest of the masses. As for the name thing, I was pointing out the irony, not trying to come up with the wittiest thing I could think of. Just thought it was funny.

@vex Yes, I'd like to see data on how the tire is deformed (yes, technical data). I agree with Josh, throwing up some random quotes without siting the source doesn't lend itself to the viability of the argument. Another consideration is how much stretch. I've seen some pretty shady stretches, if you're trying to stretch too far I could definitely see it as unsafe. I've got about an inch of stretch on my tires. Meaning each sidewall is flexed out about 1/2 an inch. If you're laying it down at more than about a 45 degree angle I would imagine problems. all the sudden your sidewall can be driven on in the right circumstances.

@max I would imagine the strut blew because there is a range of efficient travel on a strut. Too high on the cylinder and it doesn't work well, too low on the cylinder and it will bottom out destroying it. Coilovers are a different story, they're designed to be able to adjust into their efficiency range. Mostly I see what you're doing here as an attempt to educate in the other factors of suspension and you realize this though.

@RETed You're getting way too worked up buddy. The handling of a car is definitely subjective. Every driver has a way they would prefer it to drive. I prefer my front tires stretched to achieve what I believe to be more predictable handling for my driving style. If you think I placed an argument in there saying that everyone that drives cars like it to handle the same way you read into it somewhere. Cause I didn't. I explained my experience with the words "I personally...". Also, what I FEEL does count for shit in this argument, because I FEEL control of the car. Sadly you can't objectively argue control of a car. It's past it's limits while drifting, it's for me to tell you if I have more or less control of the car. Next you're saying that your argument is based solely on performance and the safety aspect isn't valid. You would somehow be satisfied if a car performed better on stretched tires than on non-stretched tires? I think the difference would be small enough it could come down the the driver, then become a subjective argument about driver, track conditions, etc. etc. etc. Everything is subjective and up for debate. How did you jump to an implication of drifting on the streets? These are the logical fallacies I'm talking about. I don't drift on the streets, I think you're throwing in a point that didn't come from this argument about your opinion of drifters in general. The point that was implied was, "If you're going to lose minimal performance, would you notice on the streets since you're unable to drive at the limits of your tires legally?"

If you're going to argue objective, maybe you should keep your argument objective. Keep your preconceived notions of who people are out of it and argue the point at hand.

There are 2 arguments here. 1) The subjective matter of tire stretch vs. standard sizing. 2) The safety concerns of stretching a tire.

1) doesn't really have a winning side it's like politics or religion. In the end it is subjective and the driver determines if they have more or less control of the car one way or the other.

2) could have an outcome but I don't see any data to back it up one way or the other. So I can only argue from my own experience that it works and I have had no problems with the setup. Because I track my car, the tires don't last long enough to have to worry about longevity of the tire (speaking purely of front tires here since rears don't last an event). So any malformation that might be caused by driving on it for 50000 (or whatever they're rated for) miles I wouldn't have any information about. The front tires probably don't last me 30% of the warrantied mileage so I'll never know unless someone can post up a study of some sort.

I went to look up the rating for the sake of accuracy on my front tires and found this video. A test by Falken... with stretched tires, for grip. It's not a comparison of stretch vs. standard but I am looking at the tires 5sec and 18sec into the video and front and rear tires are stretched. Not huge amounts, but I can look at it and see the sidewall isn't vertical and the lip protector barely comes flush with the wheel. Whereas it's designed to overhang the wheel lip.

[Max777]

Originally Posted by Chance

Obviously you have some really odd special metal on your cars in Hawaii, because I did my fenders by hand by myself, and what the fuck are you doing driving into potholes, you have a steering wheel and unless your eyesight is fucked you can avoid them unless you are a fucking paraplegic..

dear Ted, you lost...


Max.

[vex]

Originally Posted by josh18_2k

what use is information without a source? as far as i can tell, everything you quoted could be from the guy at les schwabb
all the arguments in this thread seem to be speculation. i've never seen/read about a tire failure due to stretching, altho the internet is pretty vast. i have however seen a properly sized tire dismount itself on track during a drift run. that was some comedy

I was going to put it up, but thought better of it. I'll have to hunt it down again, but it was on a simple site I found. Though, if you do not agree with something inparticular I've quoted from I'd like to know what and why.

also please leave the whole grip racing performance aspect out of this.. no one is claiming a streched tire offers better traction, so i dont know why it keeps being brought up. i rarely see any drift people try to lecture about grip, and when they do im usually the first to rectify the situation lol

Just out of curiousity as the geometry is deformed, tire pressure is altered (maximum tire pressure--do you still put in the recommended amount, are you eyeballing it, or some other means outside of manufacturers spec)?

An unrelated, but potentially critical note, is that the vertical pressure secondarily effects the range of tire carcass motion, which in turn can dramatically affect tire temperature. For example, low tire pressure can result in the rubber turning hard, and blowing out the entire sidewall. This can happen in a remarkably short time on an underinflated tire operated at high speeds.

http://www.ibmwr.org/otech/tirestuff.html

Furthermore stretching tires can run aground upon other design features such as Michelin's Stress Equilibrium Casings:

A radial casing design that more evenly distributes the forces of acceleration, cornering, and braking throughout the contact patch, allowing for design enhancements in the shoulder and the use of softer, better gripping compounds.

http://www.michelinman.com/glossary/#s

From an engineer:

There is a phenomenon called "tire stretching" where the tire is mounted on rims wider than the range published by the tire manufacturers. This is done strictly for looks.For practical purposes, the sidewall is taken out of the picture, and the vehicle might as well be riding on solid rubber. (Maybe that's next?) I've heard of a couple of cases where the tire bead pops off during cornering - result is a ruined rim.

http://www.eng-tips.com/viewthread.c...=161928&page=3

I can continue if you'd like, but you get the issue (note I haven't said one way or the other besides saying that stretching is purely aesthetic).

Sidewall defelction from what I've seen from properly maintained tires comes to about 0.3 inches give or take depending on lateral G's. I can secure that data more than likely with little issue.

[vex]

Originally Posted by sofaking

@vex Yes, I'd like to see data on how the tire is deformed (yes, technical data). I agree with Josh, throwing up some random quotes without siting the source doesn't lend itself to the viability of the argument. Another consideration is how much stretch. I've seen some pretty shady stretches, if you're trying to stretch too far I could definitely see it as unsafe. I've got about an inch of stretch on my tires. Meaning each sidewall is flexed out about 1/2 an inch. If you're laying it down at more than about a 45 degree angle I would imagine problems. all the sudden your sidewall can be driven on in the right circumstances.

What do you mean by technical data? How much tire defelction is altered during a specific corner? Would you like it arranged by contact patch size, wheel size, or some other metric? You seem to demand specifics but be purpously obtuse when it comes to defining the metrics.

Would you like to see acceleration data, lap times, or some other metric? If you have an idea of what you want, I'm sure I can hunt it down for everyone to see. Beyond what I have already posted, what specifically do you have issue with? Is something stated that is not accurate or correct? If so, what is it and why?

[sofaking]

Vex, you post up and clarify with sources for josh, then attempt to belittle me for asking the same question? You offered to post up the information from the tire manufacturers, when I asked for it... you proceeded to act like I was a moron for asking you to quote your sources. One of your quotes specifically said, "Without getting too technical..." I on the other hand would prefer someone to get technical instead of interpreting data that doesn't exist and hasn't been documented anywhere.

As for the data, any data would be good. I've not seen anything other than speculation about how this negatively effects anything. Though your quoted source in the last post (the engineer), said...

"This is done strictly for looks.For practical purposes, the sidewall is taken out of the picture, and the vehicle might as well be riding on solid rubber. (Maybe that's next?) I've heard of a couple of cases where the tire bead pops off during cornering - result is a ruined rim."

1) statement 1 contradicts statement 2. If it is only for looks, yet does something... then it's not strictly for looks. I personally find this to be exactly the response I want from the tires (on my drift car). No sidewall roll, no messing around, turn wheel, car turns. Its not terrible on the street either, I've dailied the drift car without issue.

2) if you haven't heard of a properly mounted tire bead popping off during cornering... then you probably don't spend much time with cars. I had a tire bead break just parked one time. I came out and 1 tire was completely flat. Filled it back up and it drove for many thousands of miles without issue or losing any pressure again.

So the engineer has proven my point, and not made a valid argument against it. No mention of safety or exploding tires, no mention of instant cancer to all those who drive with stretched tires. What I read was a statement of opinion about the process, mention of how it works, what the result is, and a negative scenario that can happen to any mounted tire.

The quote about the sidewall blowing out on an underinflated tire isn't even related. That's about any tire, stretched or not. Has nothing to do with a properly inflated stretched tire.

The michelen quote was unrelated too. If you're going to quote something do it about the subject.

Even a test that shows that a stretched tire will break bead more often than a standard mounted tire would be something. But currently I'm in the same situation I started, no one has shown anything negative besides pure speculation and opinion that it's bad, or doesn't work. This topic's arguments against tire stretching are falling short of proving anything at all.

Also, I notice how nobody made any mention of the fact that Falken stretched thier own tires in a grip test on video. Valid sources shown:
Sofaking = 1
Forum = 0

[RETed]

Originally Posted by sofaking

Also, I notice how nobody made any mention of the fact that Falken stretched thier own tires in a grip test on video. Valid sources shown:
Sofaking = 1
Forum = 0

Wow, and I thought I was bad...seriously.
It's funny how you like to point the finger but I can assure you that you take the prize for arguing-for-arguments-sake.
Yeah, you won.
Have fun standing on your soapbox.
I've got better things to do like cook up some steaks for dinner on the BBQ...


-Ted

[vex]

Originally Posted by sofaking

Vex, you post up and clarify with sources for josh, then attempt to belittle me for asking the same question? You offered to post up the information from the tire manufacturers, when I asked for it... you proceeded to act like I was a moron for asking you to quote your sources. One of your quotes specifically said, "Without getting too technical..." I on the other hand would prefer someone to get technical instead of interpreting data that doesn't exist and hasn't been documented anywhere.

Perhaps you should take a class on reading comprehension. I asked the same thing to Josh. You demand data, but you don't tell me what data you want. But since you've already accused me of belittling you, I will gladely oblige.

As for the data, any data would be good. I've not seen anything other than speculation about how this negatively effects anything. Though your quoted source in the last post (the engineer), said...

So, I'll ask again: What data do you want? Do you want the proper PSI for tire inflation with modified geometry, or would you like something else? Again, you're being obtuse in your desire for data.

"This is done strictly for looks.For practical purposes, the sidewall is taken out of the picture, and the vehicle might as well be riding on solid rubber. (Maybe that's next?) I've heard of a couple of cases where the tire bead pops off during cornering - result is a ruined rim."

1) statement 1 contradicts statement 2. If it is only for looks, yet does something... then it's not strictly for looks. I personally find this to be exactly the response I want from the tires (on my drift car). No sidewall roll, no messing around, turn wheel, car turns. Its not terrible on the street either, I've dailied the drift car without issue.

You really need to take that class on reading coprehension. It states for suspension geometry you can remove the side wall displacement as part of the equation. People do this for looks. Is there something in particular you desire from that specific quote? It would generate the same response if the sidewall displacement was minimized in a proper fitting tire by running solid rubber tires (which that quote further goes on to state would be the same). Which shows to me that you didn't even bother reading the link I posted along with it. As such why should I waste my time and others posting the links if you're going to spout off your agenda without doing the research. Your mantra so far dictates that you are right regardless of any data or anecdotal evidences given. Need I continue? I can, and I am willing.

2) if you haven't heard of a properly mounted tire bead popping off during cornering... then you probably don't spend much time with cars. I had a tire bead break just parked one time. I came out and 1 tire was completely flat. Filled it back up and it drove for many thousands of miles without issue or losing any pressure again.

Actually I have never heard of a properly mounted and inflated tire ever breaking the bead without a structural defect manifesting itself. But since this is your allegation, find me a documented incident where one such occurred.

So the engineer has proven my point, and not made a valid argument against it. No mention of safety or exploding tires, no mention of instant cancer to all those who drive with stretched tires. What I read was a statement of opinion about the process, mention of how it works, what the result is, and a negative scenario that can happen to any mounted tire.

And goes to show you didn't read or learn anything. Congratulations on confirming our suspicion on your intellegence.

The quote about the sidewall blowing out on an underinflated tire isn't even related. That's about any tire, stretched or not. Has nothing to do with a properly inflated stretched tire.

Which begs the question, how do you gage proper inflation when you deform the sidewall that much? You do not fill it to factory spec. What metric do you use to fill it or are you just filling it 'till it's "that'll do?" For all you have shown, you could be driving with it under inflated or over inflated and you wouldn't know would you? You're guessing on something that you have no data on. If you have data on proper pressure filling on deformed sidewall tires then I suggest you enlighten us on how the tensile strength of the sidewall is accounted for.

The michelen quote was unrelated too. If you're going to quote something do it about the subject.

I did and you failed to read it with what I said, so you show you not only lack desire to know, but fail to read. Congratulations.

Even a test that shows that a stretched tire will break bead more often than a standard mounted tire would be something. But currently I'm in the same situation I started, no one has shown anything negative besides pure speculation and opinion that it's bad, or doesn't work. This topic's arguments against tire stretching are falling short of proving anything at all.

Is that all you'd like to have? A statistical analysis of bead breaking no stretched tires?

Also, I notice how nobody made any mention of the fact that Falken stretched thier own tires in a grip test on video. Valid sources shown:
Sofaking = 1
Forum = 0

I haven't watched the video nor did I comment on the video. So, perhaps I should taredown your strawman for you?

I just watched it. I did not hear, nor see any mention to the tire size or rim sized used, nor a mention of stretch on the tire. Perhaps you're a little premature... But there again I think that's probably normal for you in all respects.

[RotorDad]

Originally Posted by sofaking

Also, I notice how nobody made any mention of the fact that Falken stretched thier own tires in a grip test on video. Valid sources shown:
Sofaking = 1
Forum = 0

You are kidding right? You tried & failed at trying to be funny with the retard comment. Now on to your so called Falken tire stretched video! I think you need to watch the video buddy. Look at 1:43 of the video the tire size is clearly evident. It's a 275/35-18 & those wheels are the 18" SVE wheels & they only come in 18"x9" or 18"x10". Okay like I said tire manufactures have listed the recommended size as well as approved sizes in which these tires are designed. To save you the time per their on site they suggest a 18"x9.5" & approve the use of width from 9" to 11", so where is the stretch.

In all respects Forum = 1 & SofaKing = 0 based on your video.

[sofaking]

Vex, you've used opinion to validate an opinion that you've made. You haven't proven the premise that the sidewalls are deformed in such a way that the strength of the sidewall is compromised when stretching a tire.

You yourself stated that you believe that the sidewalls flex .3 inches under cornering. If we take that as a fact, then stretching .3 inches is within the design specifications of the tire. If we stretch each side by .3 inches then it would still be within the design specifications of the tire. Now we have a .6 inch stretch. I.E. a 215/40-17 could be put on a 9" wide wheel and still be within spec. Obviously this relies on another fact that you haven't proven, but in this case would the inflation of the tire not be acceptable at the factory listed pressure rating?

You've attempted to belittle, avoid the point, misdirect, and argue with a premise that is based on some assumption you've made and not proven.

Another point, I watched the video too. At 5 seconds and 18 seconds into the video it showed the tire from the side. If that sidewall is vertical then I'm blind. I can't speak to what the wheels are, because obviously the 370z had aftermarket wheels it would be possible that the Mustang does too. I know there are aftermarket replica wheels for Mustangs I'm unsure if they go larger than 10" wide. I thought they did but I can't find the website now. I'm not saying it's much of a stretch but I can clearly see the sidewall rolling over towards the tread from the wheel to the contact patch.

Anyhow, I've lost interest. I'll check back for what I'm sure will be a display of Houdini like misdirection with a book of text not addressing any point I made. I'm not interested in replying anymore if you're not actually going to do anything but post links to shit unrelated. I pass to you the trophy RETed gave me for arguing. If anyone wants to PROVE the underlined sentence please feel free. I'm not saying that I'm right, I'm saying that no one has proven me wrong. Also, no, I'm not going to click your link and read another site about something that is unrelated to the topic because you made an assumption from the data correlating it to an unproven assumption made in this argument. I did look at the engineer quote link, it was completely unrelated and it had the most promise of your links.

Feel free to puff up your chest on the internet, but in the end any intelligent person can see that you haven't proven anything, only attempted to mask the fact that you're arguing with unproven assumptions about how you think stretching tires should work.

As for Titanium... ban me if you want. I could give a shit less. If getting people to prove thier point is a bannable offense, I didn't want to be here anyway.

[vex]

Originally Posted by sofaking

Vex, you've used opinion to validate an opinion that you've made. You haven't proven the premise that the sidewalls are deformed in such a way that the strength of the sidewall is compromised when stretching a tire.

You yourself stated that you believe that the sidewalls flex .3 inches under cornering. If we take that as a fact, then stretching .3 inches is within the design specifications of the tire. If we stretch each side by .3 inches then it would still be within the design specifications of the tire. Now we have a .6 inch stretch. I.E. a 215/40-17 could be put on a 9" wide wheel and still be within spec. Obviously this relies on another fact that you haven't proven, but in this case would the inflation of the tire not be acceptable at the factory listed pressure rating?

You've attempted to belittle, avoid the point, misdirect, and argue with a premise that is based on some assumption you've made and not proven.

I've used professional opinion on the matter. If you don't like it provide data, hard fact, not subjective conjecture on the matter. Balls in your court.

More to the point let's look at the actuality of the situation:
Sidewall flex or more accurately stated; deflection under cornering load varies from tire to tire, this temporary load instigates the deformation and increased stress on the tire. This load also is temporary and allows the stress to be dissipated once the load is removed. If you're cornering with a stretched tire sidewall flex is removed which means you begin to affect the plastic deformation criteria of the rubber. Sidewall deflection under normal loading conditions of a proper tire are designed to remain in the elastic deformation region. That is the same region you are taking up when you stretch the tire. The more you stretch the less elastic region you have available to allow it to absorb stress. This is fact. Look at any stress strain curve if you don't believe me.

Furthermore you have yet to address the issue of proper tire inflation. Something as simple as inflating a tire should be easy to validate with data. Surely you can provide at least that much for us 'nay sayers'?