Can you make a 20b+20b?

[bbade]

I like where your head is at. Unfortunately I don't see a 6 rotor being practical in a car any smaller than an old Cadillac.

Now a boat on the other hand... You could make one heck of a speedboat with a 6 rotor in the back, or better yet two 4 rotors.

[TitaniumTT]

So you want to spend more than 1/2 of your inheritance on the development of an engine.

[Glass Machine]

The point was that I have cash to work with. (cuz I am used to people just saying if you got to ask then you cant bla bla bla) The 500k was to make a whole new car not just a motor, that would be crazy to spend that on a motor... yet I guess you could say the same on spending it on a one of a kind car too. But ya in the real world I would not spend 500k on one car (no crap right), but you add making practices cars say like a 3 rotor GTM then make a 4 rotor GTM and the cost of that would be over well over 150k+ in the 2 cars.

In the end this is just a idea I was playing around with, and wanted to have a fun talking with people about it and toss ideas around and see what kind of crazy things we could do with 20b... am I going to do a 6 rotary motor? ya maybe someday... or I could settle with making a 3 or 4 rotor GTM or my dad could give away all the land to the Lions or Rotary Club or somthing like that and I be SOL. you never know.

[N.RotaryTech]

I like how this thread has turned into a discussion about money.

[Herblenny]

6 rotor engine would have to have 5 piece Eshaft and easiest would be peripheral port and stack housings. Cooling and oil would be interesting problems to work out. and would power to weight ratio would be better than say 2 or 3 rotor??

Bottomline, I personally don't think it would be worth it.. except maybe just to say you built one.

[Glass Machine]

Originally Posted by N.RotaryTech

I like how this thread has turned into a discussion about money.

That seem to be how they always end... sucks.

[RotaryProphet]

I think you guys are overblowing how expensive it would be.

Let's take a quick rundown of the prices for a theoretical double 4 rotor engine: Most of this is way over generalized, and some of it I just made up, but it's still an educated guess. Some of the info came from this site: http://www.holy-cow.org/faq.html

First, the big parts. kiwi-re sells a 4 rotor kit for $9500 that includes:
1:- Eccentric Shaft
2:- Front counter weight
3:- Rear counter weight
4:- 2 x Centre plates
5:- 2 x Stationary gears (modified)
6:- 2 x Stationary gear carriers
7:- 2 x Stationary gear external oiling mods
8:- Rear main nut
9:- 2 x eccentric shaft end caps

Also, the coupling for the two motors, using the example of the tractor pull motors, would include a carrier to bolt to the rear motor's snout, that would accept the other end of a stub shaft what would slip into the clutch disk on the front motor. Although a simple design would leave the clutch locked all the time, but the possibility is there to disengage the clutch and effectively turn it off. Also, via their method, you'd want brackets to bolt the two engine blocks together to help keep them from twisting relative each other. I'm going to call this less than $3000, and could be done by most competent fabricators/machinists. We'll count it as $5000, just because someone will whine about the number no matter what I put down.


So, our quick price list:
Block/internal
2x $9500 - Quad rotor kit
$5000 - Engine coupling
8x $1048 - Peripheral port housings
2x $1615 - Aluminum front plate
2x $1425 - Aluminum rear plate
4x $2365 - Super lightweight 9.7:1 rotor pair
2x $3159 - Dry sump kit
8x $1299 - Single rotor ceramic apex seal kit (all springs & seals)
Total: $64,634

Intake/Exhaust
4x $250 - Peripheral port IDA intake
4x $965 - IDA Style EFI Throttle Body w/ Rails
$316 - A1000 Fuel Pump
$140 - A1000 EFI Bypass Regulator
16x $59 - 75lb/hr EFI Injector
$461 - Megasquirt ECU w/ Relay board, custom built
2x $199 - LC-1 Wideband controller/sensor combo
2x $1500 - Custom header & exhaust
Total: $9,658

Misc:
$500 - Twin oil cooler, thermostat, remote mount filter & AN Fittings & Lines
$400 - Fuel lines & AN Fittings
2x $280 Remote mount electric water pump
$500 - Custom heavy duty radiator
Total: $1960

Granted, there's a -lot- not on the list; you'll need to adapt the motor to a transmission capable of handling the ~800hp this beast could make, then you'll need the torque converter or clutch to reign it all in. You need other miscellaneous hardware, adapters, and hoses. You'll need to have the motors tuned. You'll need a large dry sump tank to supply both pumps and engines. You'll need coilpacks to provide spark, but you could use stock FC/FD coilpacks, and simply split the ECU signal, assuming the engines are phased identically, otherwise the ECU can be modified to provide individual signals.

My parts count comes to $76,252, and counting 25% extra for whatever else isn't included (I usually count more, but given the high price of certain individual specialized parts, I don't think that would be accurate), that's just a bit over $100k. Turbocharging could be accomplished assuming you can find a place to mount everything, and honestly it wouldn't be that much more expensive, in the grand scheme of things. Another $20-25k or so. That would include 2 very large turbochargers, lines & fittings, another fuel pump, and the water-air intercooler you'd almost have to use. Power output at that point is as close to unlimited as your chassis & drivetrain budget would allow. A performance built TH-400 can handle 800-900hp easily, but the 2000hp you could get out of 8 turbocharged p-port rotors without breaking a sweat? That's a whole different world.

[Max777]

I'm going to say this:

Having that much money, and waiting to start this project, I would invest my money into a rotary engine a different way. Mazda has been developing the 16x rotary engine for quite a while now, and it should be done sometime soon if they decide to put it into production. Now, this will be a brand new engine, and no one will know how to work with it in the beginning. If I had 500k, I would buy a few of the new cars that come with the 16x and begin to do R&D on tuning these engines, maybe even making a 32x 4 rotor engine out of two of them. If you're willing to spend half a million dollars on a car, why not just start a business and have a "job" doing what you like to do?

Doing a 6 rotor seems like an expensive way to figure out that it doesn't work and is not practical. I'm sure that in the development life of the wankel engine, engineers have figured out that it doesnt work well, or we would have 6 rotor busses, heavy duty trucks, etc. out there right now.

[TitaniumTT]

You need torque not RPM's to move those things around and the rotary just doesn't produce it the way a TDi does

enter the torque vs hp debaters

As for your idea of developing a 32x - WAY better than a 6 rotor. I like where your head is at on that one.

[Glass Machine]

On the last page (pg3 if this new post makes it up to pg5) I did say something about doing a 24x... (20b from 16x's). Ya direct fuel injection in a 2.4 liter would be awesome, but a 3.2 liter 3216cc's must be done! and what did I read it was pushing 260-ish? So that would be over 500HP N/A with out even trying! Cant walk away from that idea haha been thinking about the 16x alot also for doing the build. Mazda better bring them out in 2011.

[EJayCe996]

All the dual engine talk reminded me of the old Audi TT Bimoto