Can i use a low/high-imp injector combination?

FerociousP · 10-06-2009, 12:26 PM

my s5 TII Ovals are purple... both sets...

Justen · 10-06-2009, 12:42 PM

I think a pfc is what i'm going for. From what i understand, Banzai Racing carries the adapter harness and map sensor that will let me use the FD pfc in an S5... and they'll install resistors into the harness for low-imp injectors for a little extra.

Quote:

The options we use around this are either resistors, or the FJO injector driver box, this converts the signal to use the injectors as they were designed as peak and hold. More fuel is available by using the injectors as peak and hold.

If I understand this correctly, an injector driver box/module will work better than individual resistors? Only the box will convert the injectors to peak and hold? Or will the individual resistors also convert them?

Justen · 10-06-2009, 01:14 PM

and the stock injectors are most definately high-impedence.
...550cc Denso 195500-2020 Purple, oval connect.

dudemaaan · 10-06-2009, 02:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Justen

I think a pfc is what i'm going for. From what i understand, Banzai Racing carries the adapter harness and map sensor that will let me use the FD pfc in an S5... and they'll install resistors into the harness for low-imp injectors for a little extra.

The pfc is a good choice, you should get the datalogit also. I can't imagine using a pfc without the datalogit. You will also be able to use the fast reacting air temp sensor. See the thread in my signature.(Here) The open element IATs allows much more precise tuning and a more accurate air temp table. If you do decide to go with the improved IATs you might see if Banzai will install a bosch connector on the IAT harness. The sensor uses the same connector as aftermarket bosch injectors so it shouldn't be a big deal for them to do. Or you could install it yourself, it's simple enough.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Justen

If I understand this correctly, an injector driver box/module will work better than individual resistors? Only the box will convert the injectors to peak and hold? Or will the individual resistors also convert them?

The injector driver works better then the resistors. The resistors only protect the driver circuit. It doesn't convert the signal, they also make the reaction time of the injector slower, which is why you should use the smallest resistor you can get away with. 1 ohm for bosch 1680's is probably ideal.

The injector driver minimizes injector "on time" and allows for faster response. This gives more control over the injector and allows for lower duty cycles and easier transition tuning.

In reality most hesitations caused by large secondaries with resistors can be tuned out. If you don't mind spending extra money on the driver box, and want the extra response then by all means go with the driver box. It's not worth the extra money for me though.

Justen · 10-06-2009, 04:27 PM

Ok great. Thanks for all the info and opinions, i appreciate it.

That IAT sensor is definately something i'll have to invest in.

So i looked up the Datalogit. Is this software easier to use / commonly used in tune shops? It seems like theres no need to pay extra for the hand held pfc commander if i have the datalogit software, and its not like i'll be tuning the car myself anyway... I know this is probaly a question for the Engine Management Sect but i figured i'd ask you (dudemaaan), since you know what youre talking about.

Anyone else run this setup?

djmtsu · 10-06-2009, 05:14 PM

Kevin Landers (Rotary Resurrection) is running a PFC with the Banzai adapter and a GT35.

Oh, and he is making over 400hp, with A/C and PS.

Justen · 10-06-2009, 10:40 PM

Quote:

Oh, and he is making over 400hp, with A/C and PS.

Well thats very good to hear, haha

dudemaaan · 10-06-2009, 11:11 PM

Yeah that setup is probably the most popular standalone setup for rx7s. Most rotary tuners would prefer to tune using the datalogit over the commander since you can hook a laptop to it. It also allows you to log a wideband o2 and several other inputs which makes tuning on the street possible. If you ever had a desire to tune yourself this is the way to go. Pretty much all i use the commander for is a gauge. So yeah the datalogit is way easier to tune with.

Justen · 10-07-2009, 02:39 PM

ok great. thanks for everything guys. Got a lot of great info. I appreciate it

RETed · 10-07-2009, 04:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by djmtsu

O RLY?

89-91 13B Turbo, high oval center, 550cc, purple, Denso# 195500-2020

Quote:

Originally Posted by FerociousP

my s5 TII Ovals are purple... both sets...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Justen

and the stock injectors are most definately high-impedence.
...550cc Denso 195500-2020 Purple, oval connect.

*sigh*

I've had this beef with Kevin Landers before, and he still hasn't changed his chart.
I assume you guys are talking about this?

Quote:

•• 84-85 13B NT low square center 680cc orange 195500-0900
•• 86-87 13B NT low square center 460cc red 195500-1350
•• 86-87 13BT low square center 550cc tan 195500-1370
•• 88 13B NT high square offset 460cc purple 195500-1350
•• 88 13BT high square offset 550cc purple 195500-1370
•• 89-91 13B NT high oval center 460cc red 195500-2010
•• 89-91 13BT high oval center 550cc purple 195500-2020

Taken from: http://www.rotaryresurrection.com/2n...ctor_info.html

Welp, if you're going to blindly follow what he said, you're all wrong.

What he calls: "•• 86-87 13BT low square center 550cc tan 195500-1370" is actually supposed to be PURPLE.
Brand new fuel injectors are PURPLE and turn to tan due to heat and age.

What he calls: "•• 88 13BT high square offset 550cc purple 195500-1370" is actually supposed to be RED.
Brand new fuel injectors are RED and turn pink due to heat and age.

And finally...
What he calls: "•• 89-91 13BT high oval center 550cc purple 195500-2020" is actually supposed to be RED.
Brand new fuel injectors are REd and turn pink due to heat and age.

...or are you guys color blind?

Show me some pics of these PURPLE high-impedance 550's with the oval connectors?
I've never seen such a beast in my life after working on five Kouki FC turbos...

-Ted

dudemaaan · 10-07-2009, 04:47 PM

Theres an easy way to find out if the injectors are low or high impedance. Just hook a multimeter up and check the resistance. (ohms) High impedance is usually around 12 ohms and low impedance is usually under 5 ohms.

This won't tell you the size though. But generally high impedance is 550cc and under the exception being FD secondaries which are 850, or bored out secondaries which can be 1200 and 1300cc.

I did find this chart. Not sure how accurate it is but Here

I removed all the other car types and put only the information for RX-7's.

Based on the post above mine I made another chart. So basically just look at the color and take a guess on what you want it to be haha.

djmtsu · 10-07-2009, 05:04 PM

Its OK, you can never convince Ted he is wrong. He is happy in his own little rotary world.

I took the info I posted above straight from the 2nd Gen FAQ on the 7club.

Examples, pics under the UIM (which I JUST took) of my S5 TII in the garage:

My flash makes it look hot pink, but I assure its purple.

And another that was removed from an S5 TII parts engine.

dudemaaan · 10-07-2009, 05:10 PM

So are those 550 cc injectors then? 195500-2020?

djmtsu · 10-07-2009, 05:21 PM

Correct.

At work, I can:

1) get up
2) walk out door into warehouse
3) walk 45 feet to a rack
4) pull box out of bin
5) open box and remove a PURPLE Denso 195500-2020
6) go back to desk and correct REted

Also, companies like Standard Motor Products, GB Manufacturing, and Beck/Arnley all sell Mazda part# N370-13-250 remanufactured. They are all purple.

RETed · 10-10-2009, 11:50 AM

Your "hot pink" looks like "red" to me.
I can only dig up one 1988 "red" injector so far - too lazy to take a pic, but I will get to it.

Here's the pic I took years ago when I was up in CZ.
Pic from hIGGItrix:

Far right - 1988 FC turbo, "red", high-impedence, rectangle plug, offset key
Second from right - 1987 FC turbo, early, "purple", low-impedance, rectangle plug, center key
(If you're wondering what the two left injectors are, they are non-turbo, 460's with slightly different colored "orange" tops.)

The purple is light, but it's definitely purple.
It does turn "tan" with heat and age.
All the (Zenki) FC turbos I've worked on had these types of injectors.
The half dozen of Kouki FC turbo's I've worked on only had "red" injectors (with the oval plugs).
I've never seen purple ones on Kouki FC turbo's.
So call me liar all you want - I stand by my statements as I've seen through my eyes and experience.

You're right about the pic you posted - that one is obviously purple.

-Ted

10-06-2009, 12:26 PM	#16
FerociousP I-had-a-bad-experience... Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: M'boro iTrader: (2) Posts: 1,046 Rep Power: 18	my s5 TII Ovals are purple... both sets... __________________ '15 Juke Nismo '06 MX-5 GT SOLD '04 S Silver RX-8 GT Track Day Use SOLD '90 Black TII vert w/ Sprint RE stock port/turbo DD dyno (242.6whp@5500rpm @12psi 8psi@redline) and (250ftlbtq@4800rpm @13psi) SOLD '89 GTUs 6p TII SOLD, '87 sport SOLD, '79 SA stock SOLD '91 B2600i 4x4 w/ Rx-8 LSD SOLD

10-06-2009, 01:14 PM	#18
Justen In Too Deep Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Clifton, NJ iTrader: (3) Posts: 112 Rep Power: 16	and the stock injectors are most definately high-impedence. ...550cc Denso 195500-2020 Purple, oval connect. __________________ 1990 TII, fresh rebuild Atkins rebuild kit, RA apex seals Med. Streetport, TB mod, rebuilt turbo, ported wastegate, GodSpeed FMIC RacingBeat Turbo-back straight exhaust, Bonez test pipe, emissions/nest removed hks intake, Walbro, Profec B spec-2

10-06-2009, 04:27 PM	#20
Justen In Too Deep Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Clifton, NJ iTrader: (3) Posts: 112 Rep Power: 16	Ok great. Thanks for all the info and opinions, i appreciate it. That IAT sensor is definately something i'll have to invest in. So i looked up the Datalogit. Is this software easier to use / commonly used in tune shops? It seems like theres no need to pay extra for the hand held pfc commander if i have the datalogit software, and its not like i'll be tuning the car myself anyway... I know this is probaly a question for the Engine Management Sect but i figured i'd ask you (dudemaaan), since you know what youre talking about. Anyone else run this setup? __________________ 1990 TII, fresh rebuild Atkins rebuild kit, RA apex seals Med. Streetport, TB mod, rebuilt turbo, ported wastegate, GodSpeed FMIC RacingBeat Turbo-back straight exhaust, Bonez test pipe, emissions/nest removed hks intake, Walbro, Profec B spec-2

10-06-2009, 05:14 PM	#21
djmtsu My minds tellin' me no... Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Murfreesboro, TN iTrader: (10) Posts: 4,043 Rep Power: 21	Kevin Landers (Rotary Resurrection) is running a PFC with the Banzai adapter and a GT35. Oh, and he is making over 400hp, with A/C and PS. __________________ 1976 Mazda Cosmo RX-5 1976 Mazda Cosmo RX-5 2003 Toyota Tundra TRD 2015 Toyota 4Runner SR5

10-06-2009, 11:11 PM	#23
dudemaaan Rotary Fanatic Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Brenham, TX iTrader: (4) Posts: 335 Rep Power: 17	Yeah that setup is probably the most popular standalone setup for rx7s. Most rotary tuners would prefer to tune using the datalogit over the commander since you can hook a laptop to it. It also allows you to log a wideband o2 and several other inputs which makes tuning on the street possible. If you ever had a desire to tune yourself this is the way to go. Pretty much all i use the commander for is a gauge. So yeah the datalogit is way easier to tune with. __________________ 500+ HP thanks to: Fast reacting IAT sensor thread! Mechanical Pre-turbo Water Injection Thread Dual Stock fuel pumps Thread T2 differential swap! Last edited by dudemaaan; 10-06-2009 at 11:14 PM..

10-07-2009, 02:39 PM	#24
Justen In Too Deep Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Clifton, NJ iTrader: (3) Posts: 112 Rep Power: 16	ok great. thanks for everything guys. Got a lot of great info. I appreciate it __________________ 1990 TII, fresh rebuild Atkins rebuild kit, RA apex seals Med. Streetport, TB mod, rebuilt turbo, ported wastegate, GodSpeed FMIC RacingBeat Turbo-back straight exhaust, Bonez test pipe, emissions/nest removed hks intake, Walbro, Profec B spec-2

10-07-2009, 04:47 PM	#26
dudemaaan Rotary Fanatic Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Brenham, TX iTrader: (4) Posts: 335 Rep Power: 17	Theres an easy way to find out if the injectors are low or high impedance. Just hook a multimeter up and check the resistance. (ohms) High impedance is usually around 12 ohms and low impedance is usually under 5 ohms. This won't tell you the size though. But generally high impedance is 550cc and under the exception being FD secondaries which are 850, or bored out secondaries which can be 1200 and 1300cc. I did find this chart. Not sure how accurate it is but Here I removed all the other car types and put only the information for RX-7's. Based on the post above mine I made another chart. So basically just look at the color and take a guess on what you want it to be haha. __________________ 500+ HP thanks to: Fast reacting IAT sensor thread! Mechanical Pre-turbo Water Injection Thread Dual Stock fuel pumps Thread T2 differential swap! Last edited by dudemaaan; 10-07-2009 at 04:57 PM..

10-07-2009, 05:04 PM	#27
djmtsu My minds tellin' me no... Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Murfreesboro, TN iTrader: (10) Posts: 4,043 Rep Power: 21	Its OK, you can never convince Ted he is wrong. He is happy in his own little rotary world. I took the info I posted above straight from the 2nd Gen FAQ on the 7club. Examples, pics under the UIM (which I JUST took) of my S5 TII in the garage: My flash makes it look hot pink, but I assure its purple. And another that was removed from an S5 TII parts engine. __________________ 1976 Mazda Cosmo RX-5 1976 Mazda Cosmo RX-5 2003 Toyota Tundra TRD 2015 Toyota 4Runner SR5

10-07-2009, 05:10 PM	#28
dudemaaan Rotary Fanatic Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Brenham, TX iTrader: (4) Posts: 335 Rep Power: 17	So are those 550 cc injectors then? 195500-2020? __________________ 500+ HP thanks to: Fast reacting IAT sensor thread! Mechanical Pre-turbo Water Injection Thread Dual Stock fuel pumps Thread T2 differential swap!

10-07-2009, 05:21 PM	#29
djmtsu My minds tellin' me no... Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Murfreesboro, TN iTrader: (10) Posts: 4,043 Rep Power: 21	Correct. At work, I can: 1) get up 2) walk out door into warehouse 3) walk 45 feet to a rack 4) pull box out of bin 5) open box and remove a PURPLE Denso 195500-2020 6) go back to desk and correct REted Also, companies like Standard Motor Products, GB Manufacturing, and Beck/Arnley all sell Mazda part# N370-13-250 remanufactured. They are all purple. __________________ 1976 Mazda Cosmo RX-5 1976 Mazda Cosmo RX-5 2003 Toyota Tundra TRD 2015 Toyota 4Runner SR5 Last edited by djmtsu; 10-07-2009 at 05:25 PM..