To DIY'ers-how not to wire things - Page 2

Garfinkles Motor Works · 04-28-2009, 08:53 PM

We know that the wire is workharded after solder but I have had less trouble with soilder joints than crimped .My customers get the best I can offer and I have been selling them my time and knowledge for 47 years .I solder the bare connectors as well but I get ones that are better than the one from Radio Shack .the R S ones are thinner gage metal .

jkstill · 04-29-2009, 02:14 PM

^ sorry for the assumptions then.

Seen too many bad solder joints.

Even made a few myself.

joff · 05-02-2009, 01:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jkstill

^ sorry for the assumptions then.

Seen too many bad solder joints.

Even made a few myself.

Solder joints are the not the problem. Its undeveloped skills at soldering.

If solder was the wrong way to do things, we'd all have a problem as the thousands of internal connections inside an ECU, sensor, etc are all soldered and not crimped.

Every solder joint I've ever seen fail has been due either to a cold solder joint that someone experienced would identify right away as botched from the start, or long term corrosion from improper cleaning of flux residue. Comparing soldering to crimp connections is like comparing pop-rivets to a quality TIG weld.

I found the best thing for an amateur solderer is to introduce them to standalone liquid rosin flux. Flux core solder is nice, but you must work quick before the flux burns off which is not a skill you will have as a novice. With the liquid flux, you can fix a cold solder joint by just dripping some flux and reapplying heat.

scotty305 · 05-09-2009, 12:14 AM

I agree with joff. Most people who dislike crimping have probably seen the results of low-quality crimp connectors and tools used by people who haven't got much experience using them. With the proper equipment and training (or even plenty of trial and error), it is much easier (and faster) to make a very reliable crimped joint.

I have seen soldered joints in which the wire near the solder literally corroded and crumbled away, they were at least 3-5 years old and you could see yellow/brown traces suggesting that the flux had not been cleaned (I'd suggest using rubbing alcohol applied with a stiff-bristled brush, and then a rag to wipe clean). The solder joint was still intact but the wire immediately adjacent (where the flux had flowed to) had corroded and broken and there was lots of powdery residue.

There is a thick plastic-like heat shrink material (I think it's called SCR) that will do a better job of insulating and protecting joints (whether they are solder joints or crimped splices) compared to regular thin heat shrink. Dual-wall (adhesive) heat shrink is nice also.

If you are using cheap auto-parts-store crimp connectors (butt splices) with plastic surrounding the metal, heat the plastic up before crimping (use a heat gun if possible, or by breathing warm air on it if that's all you've got). Use the notched end of a universal crimp tool; the color-coded "insulated" crimp tool sections that are perfectly concave on both sides won't distort the butt splice enough and it won't grab the wire well enough.

That said, I've soldered more than a couple electrical connections in cars and haven't seen or heard of one fail yet; maybe I'm lucky. When possible I try to use crimps.

jkstill · 05-11-2009, 01:13 PM

Lots of good info here.

I hadn't considered the corrosive properties of flux.

I'm also familiar with RoHS- the company I work for designs electronic systems for cell phone and medical use. As you say, getting solder may become a problem.

Maybe it's time to invest in some high quality crimping tools.

albertomg · 05-12-2009, 10:45 AM

SO since we are on the topic of crimping.. I can't solder to save my life. B/c of that, crimping would be more reliable for the few times that I do electronics. Can one of you knowledgeable folks recommend a good crimping tool and crimp connectors?

A link to the products would be great.

Thanks.

05-09-2009, 12:14 AM	#4
scotty305 Rotary Fan in Training Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Culver City, CA Posts: 84 Rep Power: 18	I agree with joff. Most people who dislike crimping have probably seen the results of low-quality crimp connectors and tools used by people who haven't got much experience using them. With the proper equipment and training (or even plenty of trial and error), it is much easier (and faster) to make a very reliable crimped joint. I have seen soldered joints in which the wire near the solder literally corroded and crumbled away, they were at least 3-5 years old and you could see yellow/brown traces suggesting that the flux had not been cleaned (I'd suggest using rubbing alcohol applied with a stiff-bristled brush, and then a rag to wipe clean). The solder joint was still intact but the wire immediately adjacent (where the flux had flowed to) had corroded and broken and there was lots of powdery residue. There is a thick plastic-like heat shrink material (I think it's called SCR) that will do a better job of insulating and protecting joints (whether they are solder joints or crimped splices) compared to regular thin heat shrink. Dual-wall (adhesive) heat shrink is nice also. If you are using cheap auto-parts-store crimp connectors (butt splices) with plastic surrounding the metal, heat the plastic up before crimping (use a heat gun if possible, or by breathing warm air on it if that's all you've got). Use the notched end of a universal crimp tool; the color-coded "insulated" crimp tool sections that are perfectly concave on both sides won't distort the butt splice enough and it won't grab the wire well enough. That said, I've soldered more than a couple electrical connections in cars and haven't seen or heard of one fail yet; maybe I'm lucky. When possible I try to use crimps. Last edited by scotty305; 05-09-2009 at 12:17 AM.

05-12-2009, 10:45 AM	#6
albertomg Rotary Fan in Training Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Bay Area CA Posts: 91 Rep Power: 18	SO since we are on the topic of crimping.. I can't solder to save my life. B/c of that, crimping would be more reliable for the few times that I do electronics. Can one of you knowledgeable folks recommend a good crimping tool and crimp connectors? A link to the products would be great. Thanks. __________________ 93 Vintage Red R1 Power: Street Ported Motor, 99 Twins, V-mount, DP>SMB cat/MP> RB cat back, PFC, 1300cc secondaries, Fuel Pump, ACT clutch, RB lwfw, etc Steve Kan tuned - 310rwhp at 10PSI Suspension: Tripoint custom valved Koni + Ground Control coilovers, Eibach sway bars, SuperPro bushings, Corner Balanced and accurately aligned Brakes: RacingBrake 4 corner BBK SSR Integrale 17"x9" +45, Dunlop Star Specs 255/40

04-28-2009, 08:53 PM	#1
Garfinkles Motor Works RCC Contributor Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 535 Rep Power: 18	We know that the wire is workharded after solder but I have had less trouble with soilder joints than crimped .My customers get the best I can offer and I have been selling them my time and knowledge for 47 years .I solder the bare connectors as well but I get ones that are better than the one from Radio Shack .the R S ones are thinner gage metal .

04-29-2009, 02:14 PM	#2
jkstill Rotary Fan in Training Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 93 Rep Power: 18	^ sorry for the assumptions then. Seen too many bad solder joints. Even made a few myself.

05-11-2009, 01:13 PM	#5
jkstill Rotary Fan in Training Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 93 Rep Power: 18	Lots of good info here. I hadn't considered the corrosive properties of flux. I'm also familiar with RoHS- the company I work for designs electronic systems for cell phone and medical use. As you say, getting solder may become a problem. Maybe it's time to invest in some high quality crimping tools.