New 20b intake plenum and runners

warwickben · 01-20-2011, 08:02 PM

Any updates?

gmonsen · 01-21-2011, 10:41 PM

Warwicken... Yep. Three failures on the runners!!! The fourth one worked and the whole thing should be done by mid next week. Its a real pain getting the 120 degree bend just right with a tapered runner without crimping it. We ended up taking 2 inch pipe and mandrel bending it to the right curve and then cutting a "slit" in it and hammering the sides of the slit together to get the exact taper. They look good. Victor is "trumpeting" them into the plenum now. So, some pictures soon of the runners and then the finished piece. Then, another week to some new numbers!

Gordon

***TitaniumTT*** · 01-21-2011, 10:49 PM

Damn, sounds like a lot of fun. Can't wait to see the finished product though. Hopefully the rewards are worth the pain

Hey Gordon, just an FYI, there's a group of us heading to Dave's one the 29th. 4 of us from the forum and maybe a 20B FD as well.... just in case you've got nothing going on next saturday

gmonsen · 01-22-2011, 09:02 AM

TitaniumTT... I'll be there if the weather isn't lousy, if you guys are on for sure. I stop by Dave's every so often and just sit there all day doing nothing while Dave talks on the phone and tells me we can talk soon... He may have the new paint booth done. You can also see a few new things on my car that I haven't shown yet.

Gordon

warwickben · 01-22-2011, 09:43 AM

I'm a metal worker by trade. Next time you build one try this. Turn a steel stake down to the taper you need. You can heat it up and curve it as u need. Cut two strips of sheet metal and hammer them around the metal stake trim and weld both halfs togarther.

Can't wait to see more pics.

***TitaniumTT*** · 01-22-2011, 10:10 AM

Gordon, we're on for sure... unless there is a TON of snow... if that's the case we all may head up early to beat it? Either way, I'm planning on being there to test a few coils and see if two rx8's can match one RE in power

then of course probably get blown out of the water by a 20B turbo FD... should be fun.

I know those days at Daves all to well.... he's got damn good coffee though

hades · 01-22-2011, 10:33 AM

at work we use a product from Lydall to help protect the cab from the turbo. The product is has a pressure sensitive adhesive backing, a 1/2" fiberglass core and a stainless steel outer skin.

This does a great job of protecting metal and fiberglass from the turbos--which are a bit too close.

I wish work didn't throw out my 8' rolled sample..

or i would send you a piece of it just to see how it.

Just throwing some ideas out there. I designed aftertreatment components for Peterbilt the last few years. Fighting heat has been a challenge. I do have some pretty cool materials to try out though.

good luck.

gmonsen · 01-22-2011, 10:50 AM

Ben... I actually had that idea and it would have been next. We tried filling the runners with sand before bending them and there was still a small crimp in them. Bending a full 2 inch diameter aluminum pipe first and then slitting it and moving the two sides together seems to have worked.

Brian... Good deal. I guess Ray's bringing up Chris' car? Its funny. That car was here for maybe a total of 4 -5 years. Now, I've got Davin's black touring in the garage for a time while he's in California. I should start charging for storage...

The motor is ready to be assembled and we are just waiting on the intake to be completed to put it together. We have my original headers and a new set that Logan (defined autoworks) made for me that he claims will add 20-25 foot pounds of torque. So, we'll be doing a lot of dyno work in about 2 weeks?

Gordon

***TitaniumTT*** · 01-22-2011, 11:39 AM

Yeah, if Ray can work a day off he'll be there. I didn't realize Ray ended up with Chris's car... that's really awesome. I've been wanting to see that beaut

If you're offering free storage... I may take you up on it so I'm not tempted to take the FC apart once I get her back together

Have you thought about taking the al pipe to an exhaust shop? They usually have a bunch of mandrels that should be able to bend without crimping. I've gotten to the point where I'm going to be building my own tubing bender in the very near future. Too many things can be built much more attractively with some mandrel bends and I'm getting to the point where off the self bends just aren't really cutting it anymore. Plans can be bought online for a few bucks, then it's just a day of millling and welding. Dies are usually about $150 iirc.

gmonsen · 01-22-2011, 11:47 AM

Brian... We were welding up a tube that tapered and then bending it. Taking a 2 inch pipe and bending it first works much better. We have all the tools, just did it backwards, I think.

And, yeah, Ray got Chris' car. He stole it for the price of a motor. Car still needs cosmetics.

Hades... Very cool. If worries come up, I'll reach out for some ideas?

Gordon

warwickben · 01-24-2011, 05:28 AM

fill with water not sand. it makes it so much easier. only way sand will work is if you can weld like a plungers on one side and compact the sand. sand has air pockets that can mover around and deform the metal. water not so much.

gmonsen · 02-01-2011, 10:29 PM

So, we are finally going on the manifold. It was a pain getting the runners right. The final method was to make it in 2 halves and then weld them together. We tried every other way of doing it (thanks, Warwickben) and it didn't come out right. The first 3 of these looked perfect and measure out exactly. It was a bot more complicated than we thought. Again, its the tapering while bending that's so tough. Either one without the other works fine, but its tough to do them both together. These will be done this week and back to get put on the motor next week. I am very excited that we will see some exciting results.

Gordon

gmonsen · 02-02-2011, 12:50 AM

Victor is working thorough the night to get these done. They are made up in halves and welded together. That's the only way we could get the complex curves and tapering to work just right. Please don't mind the welds. They will not be visible once ground and polished and then painted.

Gordon

Look at the curves and taper of the runners. Very complex shape.

Notice how different the lengths of the runners were originally. The third rotor has a much longer runner than the others.

warwickben · 02-02-2011, 09:35 AM

Cant wait for pics lol.

diabolical1 · 02-04-2011, 09:37 AM

appears to be coming together quite nicely. i can't wait to see what it does on the car. what finish are you planning on when all is said and done? coated? polished?

01-20-2011, 08:02 PM	#16
warwickben sa rat rod Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: tewksbury ma iTrader: (4) Posts: 408 Rep Power: 17	Any updates? __________________

01-21-2011, 10:41 PM	#17
gmonsen The Ancient One Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Eastern Pennsylvania iTrader: (0) Posts: 144 Rep Power: 17	Warwicken... Yep. Three failures on the runners!!! The fourth one worked and the whole thing should be done by mid next week. Its a real pain getting the 120 degree bend just right with a tapered runner without crimping it. We ended up taking 2 inch pipe and mandrel bending it to the right curve and then cutting a "slit" in it and hammering the sides of the slit together to get the exact taper. They look good. Victor is "trumpeting" them into the plenum now. So, some pictures soon of the runners and then the finished piece. Then, another week to some new numbers! Gordon __________________ 1993 Rx7 R1 20b NA 1994 Rx7 20b supercharged project 1991 BMW 850 6 speed 1991 BMW E30 M3 Evo II

01-21-2011, 10:49 PM	#18
*TitaniumTT* Test Whore - Admin Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Right Behind you son iTrader: (4) Posts: 4,581 Rep Power: 10	Damn, sounds like a lot of fun. Can't wait to see the finished product though. Hopefully the rewards are worth the pain Hey Gordon, just an FYI, there's a group of us heading to Dave's one the 29th. 4 of us from the forum and maybe a 20B FD as well.... just in case you've got nothing going on next saturday __________________ -The Angry Stig- DGRR 2009, 2011, 2012 & 2013 - Best FC DEALS GAP!! WOOHOOOO!!!!! 2015 Audi S4 - Samantha - Zero Brap S4 2004 RX8 - Jocelyn - 196rwhp, 19mpg fuel to noise converter 2000 Jeep Cherokee Sport - Wifey mobile - Now with 2.5" OME lift and 30" BFG AT KO's! So it begins 1998 Jeep Cherokee - 5 spd, 4" lift, 33" BFG's - Rotary Tow Vehicle 1988 'Vert - In progress 1988 FC Coupe - Gretchen -The attention whore BEAST! I'm a sick individual, what's wrong with you? I'm pure Evil I'm still insane, in the best possible way. I think Brian's idea of romance is using lube. Your rage caused the meteor strike in Russia. The Antichrist would be proud of his minion. You win with your thread. Most everything It's a truck with a steel gate on the back. Just a statement of fact Motec M820, AIM dash, ported 13B-RE Cosmo, 6-spd trans, 4.3 Torsen, custom twin wg fully divided mani, Custom 4" split into 2x 3" exhaust, Custom HMIC, Custom custom custom custom I like to welder stuff.... No Bolt-ons allowed. Dyno'ed @ Speed1 Tuned by me - 405rwhp on WG.... WM50 cuming soon. *-Angry Motherfcker Mode ENGAGED-**

01-22-2011, 09:02 AM	#19
gmonsen The Ancient One Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Eastern Pennsylvania iTrader: (0) Posts: 144 Rep Power: 17	TitaniumTT... I'll be there if the weather isn't lousy, if you guys are on for sure. I stop by Dave's every so often and just sit there all day doing nothing while Dave talks on the phone and tells me we can talk soon... He may have the new paint booth done. You can also see a few new things on my car that I haven't shown yet. Gordon __________________ 1993 Rx7 R1 20b NA 1994 Rx7 20b supercharged project 1991 BMW 850 6 speed 1991 BMW E30 M3 Evo II

01-22-2011, 09:43 AM	#20
warwickben sa rat rod Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: tewksbury ma iTrader: (4) Posts: 408 Rep Power: 17	I'm a metal worker by trade. Next time you build one try this. Turn a steel stake down to the taper you need. You can heat it up and curve it as u need. Cut two strips of sheet metal and hammer them around the metal stake trim and weld both halfs togarther. Can't wait to see more pics. __________________

01-22-2011, 10:10 AM	#21
*TitaniumTT* Test Whore - Admin Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Right Behind you son iTrader: (4) Posts: 4,581 Rep Power: 10	Gordon, we're on for sure... unless there is a TON of snow... if that's the case we all may head up early to beat it? Either way, I'm planning on being there to test a few coils and see if two rx8's can match one RE in power then of course probably get blown out of the water by a 20B turbo FD... should be fun. I know those days at Daves all to well.... he's got damn good coffee though __________________ -The Angry Stig- DGRR 2009, 2011, 2012 & 2013 - Best FC DEALS GAP!! WOOHOOOO!!!!! 2015 Audi S4 - Samantha - Zero Brap S4 2004 RX8 - Jocelyn - 196rwhp, 19mpg fuel to noise converter 2000 Jeep Cherokee Sport - Wifey mobile - Now with 2.5" OME lift and 30" BFG AT KO's! So it begins 1998 Jeep Cherokee - 5 spd, 4" lift, 33" BFG's - Rotary Tow Vehicle 1988 'Vert - In progress 1988 FC Coupe - Gretchen -The attention whore BEAST! I'm a sick individual, what's wrong with you? I'm pure Evil I'm still insane, in the best possible way. I think Brian's idea of romance is using lube. Your rage caused the meteor strike in Russia. The Antichrist would be proud of his minion. You win with your thread. Most everything It's a truck with a steel gate on the back. Just a statement of fact Motec M820, AIM dash, ported 13B-RE Cosmo, 6-spd trans, 4.3 Torsen, custom twin wg fully divided mani, Custom 4" split into 2x 3" exhaust, Custom HMIC, Custom custom custom custom I like to welder stuff.... No Bolt-ons allowed. Dyno'ed @ Speed1 Tuned by me - 405rwhp on WG.... WM50 cuming soon. *-Angry Motherfcker Mode ENGAGED-**

01-22-2011, 10:33 AM	#22
hades Rotary Fanatic Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Freedom Land iTrader: (0) Posts: 316 Rep Power: 17	at work we use a product from Lydall to help protect the cab from the turbo. The product is has a pressure sensitive adhesive backing, a 1/2" fiberglass core and a stainless steel outer skin. This does a great job of protecting metal and fiberglass from the turbos--which are a bit too close. I wish work didn't throw out my 8' rolled sample.. or i would send you a piece of it just to see how it. Just throwing some ideas out there. I designed aftertreatment components for Peterbilt the last few years. Fighting heat has been a challenge. I do have some pretty cool materials to try out though. good luck. __________________ This is going to tear

01-22-2011, 10:50 AM	#23
gmonsen The Ancient One Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Eastern Pennsylvania iTrader: (0) Posts: 144 Rep Power: 17	Ben... I actually had that idea and it would have been next. We tried filling the runners with sand before bending them and there was still a small crimp in them. Bending a full 2 inch diameter aluminum pipe first and then slitting it and moving the two sides together seems to have worked. Brian... Good deal. I guess Ray's bringing up Chris' car? Its funny. That car was here for maybe a total of 4 -5 years. Now, I've got Davin's black touring in the garage for a time while he's in California. I should start charging for storage... The motor is ready to be assembled and we are just waiting on the intake to be completed to put it together. We have my original headers and a new set that Logan (defined autoworks) made for me that he claims will add 20-25 foot pounds of torque. So, we'll be doing a lot of dyno work in about 2 weeks? Gordon __________________ 1993 Rx7 R1 20b NA 1994 Rx7 20b supercharged project 1991 BMW 850 6 speed 1991 BMW E30 M3 Evo II

01-22-2011, 11:39 AM	#24
*TitaniumTT* Test Whore - Admin Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Right Behind you son iTrader: (4) Posts: 4,581 Rep Power: 10	Yeah, if Ray can work a day off he'll be there. I didn't realize Ray ended up with Chris's car... that's really awesome. I've been wanting to see that beaut If you're offering free storage... I may take you up on it so I'm not tempted to take the FC apart once I get her back together Have you thought about taking the al pipe to an exhaust shop? They usually have a bunch of mandrels that should be able to bend without crimping. I've gotten to the point where I'm going to be building my own tubing bender in the very near future. Too many things can be built much more attractively with some mandrel bends and I'm getting to the point where off the self bends just aren't really cutting it anymore. Plans can be bought online for a few bucks, then it's just a day of millling and welding. Dies are usually about $150 iirc. __________________ -The Angry Stig- DGRR 2009, 2011, 2012 & 2013 - Best FC DEALS GAP!! WOOHOOOO!!!!! 2015 Audi S4 - Samantha - Zero Brap S4 2004 RX8 - Jocelyn - 196rwhp, 19mpg fuel to noise converter 2000 Jeep Cherokee Sport - Wifey mobile - Now with 2.5" OME lift and 30" BFG AT KO's! So it begins 1998 Jeep Cherokee - 5 spd, 4" lift, 33" BFG's - Rotary Tow Vehicle 1988 'Vert - In progress 1988 FC Coupe - Gretchen -The attention whore BEAST! I'm a sick individual, what's wrong with you? I'm pure Evil I'm still insane, in the best possible way. I think Brian's idea of romance is using lube. Your rage caused the meteor strike in Russia. The Antichrist would be proud of his minion. You win with your thread. Most everything It's a truck with a steel gate on the back. Just a statement of fact Motec M820, AIM dash, ported 13B-RE Cosmo, 6-spd trans, 4.3 Torsen, custom twin wg fully divided mani, Custom 4" split into 2x 3" exhaust, Custom HMIC, Custom custom custom custom I like to welder stuff.... No Bolt-ons allowed. Dyno'ed @ Speed1 Tuned by me - 405rwhp on WG.... WM50 cuming soon. *-Angry Motherfcker Mode ENGAGED-**

01-22-2011, 11:47 AM	#25
gmonsen The Ancient One Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Eastern Pennsylvania iTrader: (0) Posts: 144 Rep Power: 17	Brian... We were welding up a tube that tapered and then bending it. Taking a 2 inch pipe and bending it first works much better. We have all the tools, just did it backwards, I think. And, yeah, Ray got Chris' car. He stole it for the price of a motor. Car still needs cosmetics. Hades... Very cool. If worries come up, I'll reach out for some ideas? Gordon __________________ 1993 Rx7 R1 20b NA 1994 Rx7 20b supercharged project 1991 BMW 850 6 speed 1991 BMW E30 M3 Evo II

01-24-2011, 05:28 AM	#26
warwickben sa rat rod Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: tewksbury ma iTrader: (4) Posts: 408 Rep Power: 17	fill with water not sand. it makes it so much easier. only way sand will work is if you can weld like a plungers on one side and compact the sand. sand has air pockets that can mover around and deform the metal. water not so much. __________________

02-01-2011, 10:29 PM	#27
gmonsen The Ancient One Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Eastern Pennsylvania iTrader: (0) Posts: 144 Rep Power: 17	So, we are finally going on the manifold. It was a pain getting the runners right. The final method was to make it in 2 halves and then weld them together. We tried every other way of doing it (thanks, Warwickben) and it didn't come out right. The first 3 of these looked perfect and measure out exactly. It was a bot more complicated than we thought. Again, its the tapering while bending that's so tough. Either one without the other works fine, but its tough to do them both together. These will be done this week and back to get put on the motor next week. I am very excited that we will see some exciting results. Gordon __________________ 1993 Rx7 R1 20b NA 1994 Rx7 20b supercharged project 1991 BMW 850 6 speed 1991 BMW E30 M3 Evo II

02-02-2011, 12:50 AM	#28
gmonsen The Ancient One Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Eastern Pennsylvania iTrader: (0) Posts: 144 Rep Power: 17	Victor is working thorough the night to get these done. They are made up in halves and welded together. That's the only way we could get the complex curves and tapering to work just right. Please don't mind the welds. They will not be visible once ground and polished and then painted. Gordon Look at the curves and taper of the runners. Very complex shape. Notice how different the lengths of the runners were originally. The third rotor has a much longer runner than the others. __________________ 1993 Rx7 R1 20b NA 1994 Rx7 20b supercharged project 1991 BMW 850 6 speed 1991 BMW E30 M3 Evo II

02-02-2011, 09:35 AM	#29
warwickben sa rat rod Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: tewksbury ma iTrader: (4) Posts: 408 Rep Power: 17	Cant wait for pics lol. __________________

02-04-2011, 09:37 AM	#30
diabolical1 I have radioactive semen Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: in a bottle of Glenfiddich iTrader: (0) Posts: 249 Rep Power: 17	appears to be coming together quite nicely. i can't wait to see what it does on the car. what finish are you planning on when all is said and done? coated? polished?