Oil injection hole... Put to good use? - Page 2

RETed · 12-17-2010, 11:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sen2two

So any thoughts about adding a fuel injector there. Maybe block off the original primary position, and use this location as my primary injector position?

Not a good idea...

Fuel injectors are positioned in (narrow) intake passages to take advantage of the higher intake velocities.
You stuff the fuel injectors into the rotor housings, and you lose a lot of the atomization due to the inferior intake velocity.

-Ted

88turboii · 12-17-2010, 09:51 PM

direct injection ftw do iiit

sen2two · 12-18-2010, 12:02 AM

Very true.

hybrid G · 12-18-2010, 11:05 AM

How about adding water or methanol injection nozzels, to cool the intake charge ?

sen2two · 12-18-2010, 10:17 PM

Thought about that, but I believe that meth injection works better as a chemical coolant when injected earlier in the air stream to better atomize and remove the heat.

Although I have no idea if that is true. Just a guess I am making. If anyone here has more insight, as if this is a "better" place to inject meth... Speak up!

NoDOHC · 01-13-2011, 11:27 AM

I don't know that the term 'idiot' was entirely deserved...

Either way, I broke my OMP lines on my '86 about 5 years ago. This resulted in me running premix for 5 years. I pulled my tank down a few months back and had no oil residue in it at all (I did have some water though). I do run the OMP now (got new lines) due to my desire to do DOD (Displacement On Demand) at a later date.

Bear in mind that all the bumps on the road and the fuel pump mix the oil and gas in the tank very well. The fuel in the line is moving too quickly to settle out. Besides that- it takes several years for two-cycle oil to settle out of gas in a can.

As to the no injection on decel. The OMP does not inject very much on decel either (the injection quantity is throttle-related - at least on an S4).

ducktape · 01-13-2011, 12:28 PM

Wow, really? Didn't know there was such a thing as an OMP purist.

I remember once I premixed way too heavily in a stock TII. It ran like ass and smoked like a freight train until I diluted it, but was fine after that.

It's simple really; An OMP can fail catastrophically, premix cannot.

Rotary Related · 01-14-2011, 05:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ducktape

Wow, really? Didn't know there was such a thing as an OMP purist.

I remember once I premixed way too heavily in a stock TII. It ran like ass and smoked like a freight train until I diluted it, but was fine after that.

It's simple really; An OMP can fail catastrophically, premix cannot.

Read post #18 I'm not a purist I use two stroke just like you but use the OMP to dictate the proper amount. I don't add it to the fuel tank as I don't believe it gets metered correctly that way. I have a rotary aviaton adapter. I don't know how much clearer that could be.

mazpower · 01-13-2011, 01:06 PM

My 2 cents...

All I know is every engine I've taken apart that runs premix always looks a little better than an OMP injected system, especially as more time passes between builds.

Less gunk in the seals and other build-up.

Then of course this might be from premix being used instead of dirty engine oil. Brian's engine which uses the OMP to inject premix looked just like my engines that run premix exclusively. Modern premix is designed to be delivered with fuel through injectors. I just don't get what Rotary Related is worried about.

My5ABaby · 01-13-2011, 01:07 PM

I've overpremixed before and it smokes a little but I didn't notice a difference in performance.

***TitaniumTT*** · 01-14-2011, 05:46 PM

Funny, I bought a 'vert over the summer that had the OMP blocked off. It had been sitting for over 3 years.
The car I bought was sitting in the garage untouched for 3 years.
The last time the car moved was 3 years ago.
The last time the gas was sloshed around was 3 years ago.
The oil is still suspended. The tank has no sludge in the bottom of it. In fact, the pre-mix helped prevent the tank from rotting away.

There are no ill effects from pre-mixing in the tank. I've seen 4 micron filters not get clogged from pre-mix. When it's mixed in with the gas, it's going to get injected.

FWIW I run the RA adapter injecting some Idemitsu oil, and I pre-mix the same oil in the tank at a ratio of 512:1... or a 1/4 oz of oil per gallon of gas.

NoDOHC · 01-14-2011, 08:44 PM

Please don't take offense from RETed, he is a very knowledgeable and intelligent member of the community and I think that he really cares about the rotary community. I think this is why he is so fast to jump on what he sees as misinformation. I know that he comes across a little bluntly at times, but I think that he means no harm by it.

Some day he will stop attacking the person that has the idea that he disagrees with and start attacking the idea - until then, please understand that it is his way of disagreeing and I don't think that he means to offend.

(Please feel free to agree with this yourself RETed - I don't purport to speak for you).

Rotary Related · 01-14-2011, 09:06 PM

I'm sure he is a good member. I just think his method was a bit much is all.

Then the topic got way off somehow and I was supposedly using a factory OMP setup? It's crazy in here. Crazy I tell ya.

We could say this: Any oil injection method is fine, if you are fine with it yourself and it's two stroke not four stroke oil.

NoDOHC · 01-14-2011, 09:39 PM

I think that it is very important to have discussions about what works and what doesn't, what each of us has found, reasons that we do things, theories on why Mazda did things, deeper engine or suspension theory, etc.

It is also important that we don't pass inaccurate information on because someone may read it and take it as fact.

For this reason, it is good to state what you have found, what you do and why you do it.

As long as we keep these pieces of information as pieces of information and debate in a mature and intelligent fashion, debate is good, as it allows posterity to see both sides of the issue.

12-18-2010, 12:02 AM	#3
sen2two KTEC Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 642 Rep Power: 0	Very true. __________________ what I have: 1985 Gs:12a All motor Drag car - 1973 Rx2: Play car What I had: 93 Touring: TRADED - 91 Coupe: TRADED - 90 GTU: RHD - 88 10AE: SOLD - 87 Base: SOLD - 86 Base: SOLD - 1985 GSLSE - 85 Gsl: SOLD - 80 Gs: TRADED - 1972 Rx2

12-18-2010, 10:17 PM	#5
sen2two KTEC Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 642 Rep Power: 0	Thought about that, but I believe that meth injection works better as a chemical coolant when injected earlier in the air stream to better atomize and remove the heat. Although I have no idea if that is true. Just a guess I am making. If anyone here has more insight, as if this is a "better" place to inject meth... Speak up! __________________ what I have: 1985 Gs:12a All motor Drag car - 1973 Rx2: Play car What I had: 93 Touring: TRADED - 91 Coupe: TRADED - 90 GTU: RHD - 88 10AE: SOLD - 87 Base: SOLD - 86 Base: SOLD - 1985 GSLSE - 85 Gsl: SOLD - 80 Gs: TRADED - 1972 Rx2

01-13-2011, 11:27 AM	#6
NoDOHC The quest for more torque Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Sheboygan, Wisconsin Posts: 855 Rep Power: 18	I don't know that the term 'idiot' was entirely deserved... Either way, I broke my OMP lines on my '86 about 5 years ago. This resulted in me running premix for 5 years. I pulled my tank down a few months back and had no oil residue in it at all (I did have some water though). I do run the OMP now (got new lines) due to my desire to do DOD (Displacement On Demand) at a later date. Bear in mind that all the bumps on the road and the fuel pump mix the oil and gas in the tank very well. The fuel in the line is moving too quickly to settle out. Besides that- it takes several years for two-cycle oil to settle out of gas in a can. As to the no injection on decel. The OMP does not inject very much on decel either (the injection quantity is throttle-related - at least on an S4). __________________ 1986 GXL ('87 4-port NA - Haltech E8, LS2 Coils. Defined Autoworks Headers, Dual 2.5" Exhaust (Dual Superflow, dBX mufflers) 1991 Coupe (KYB AGX Shocks, Eibach lowering springs, RB exhaust, Stock and Automatic)

01-13-2011, 12:28 PM	#7
ducktape Hardcore Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Louisville, Ky Posts: 88 Rep Power: 16	Wow, really? Didn't know there was such a thing as an OMP purist. I remember once I premixed way too heavily in a stock TII. It ran like ass and smoked like a freight train until I diluted it, but was fine after that. It's simple really; An OMP can fail catastrophically, premix cannot. Last edited by ducktape; 01-13-2011 at 12:32 PM.

01-13-2011, 01:06 PM	#9
mazpower Rawr Bearclaw Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: The Souf Posts: 197 Rep Power: 18	My 2 cents... All I know is every engine I've taken apart that runs premix always looks a little better than an OMP injected system, especially as more time passes between builds. Less gunk in the seals and other build-up. Then of course this might be from premix being used instead of dirty engine oil. Brian's engine which uses the OMP to inject premix looked just like my engines that run premix exclusively. Modern premix is designed to be delivered with fuel through injectors. I just don't get what Rotary Related is worried about. __________________ Illicit Performance Rotary building, porting, tuning, chassis dyno services www.illicitperformance.com

12-17-2010, 09:51 PM	#2
88turboii destroy, rebuild, repeat Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Charleston, SC Posts: 395 Rep Power: 18	direct injection ftw do iiit

12-18-2010, 11:05 AM	#4
hybrid G The Newbie Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 15 Rep Power: 0	How about adding water or methanol injection nozzels, to cool the intake charge ?

01-13-2011, 01:07 PM	#10
My5ABaby Sigh..... Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Murfreesboro, TN Posts: 2,377 Rep Power: 20	I've overpremixed before and it smokes a little but I didn't notice a difference in performance. __________________ 1986 Sport: 132k miles, 5A (Sapphire Blue Metallic), Tokico Blues, Racing Beat Springs, Custom LED tailights (only S4 LED tails in the world), SSR Mark II, Racing Beat exhaust, S5 black interior, Rotary Resurrection rebuild at 120k miles Community Service Manual RotorWiki "Imagination costs nothing; we could build square locomotives or fly to Mars" - Felix Wankel Yesterday is history, tomorrow is a mystery, but today is a gift. That is why it is called the "present."

01-14-2011, 05:46 PM	#11
*TitaniumTT* Test Whore - Admin Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Right Behind you son Posts: 4,581 Rep Power: 10	Funny, I bought a 'vert over the summer that had the OMP blocked off. It had been sitting for over 3 years. The car I bought was sitting in the garage untouched for 3 years. The last time the car moved was 3 years ago. The last time the gas was sloshed around was 3 years ago. The oil is still suspended. The tank has no sludge in the bottom of it. In fact, the pre-mix helped prevent the tank from rotting away. There are no ill effects from pre-mixing in the tank. I've seen 4 micron filters not get clogged from pre-mix. When it's mixed in with the gas, it's going to get injected. FWIW I run the RA adapter injecting some Idemitsu oil, and I pre-mix the same oil in the tank at a ratio of 512:1... or a 1/4 oz of oil per gallon of gas. __________________ -The Angry Stig- DGRR 2009, 2011, 2012 & 2013 - Best FC DEALS GAP!! WOOHOOOO!!!!! 2015 Audi S4 - Samantha - Zero Brap S4 2004 RX8 - Jocelyn - 196rwhp, 19mpg fuel to noise converter 2000 Jeep Cherokee Sport - Wifey mobile - Now with 2.5" OME lift and 30" BFG AT KO's! So it begins 1998 Jeep Cherokee - 5 spd, 4" lift, 33" BFG's - Rotary Tow Vehicle 1988 'Vert - In progress 1988 FC Coupe - Gretchen -The attention whore BEAST! I'm a sick individual, what's wrong with you? I'm pure Evil I'm still insane, in the best possible way. I think Brian's idea of romance is using lube. Your rage caused the meteor strike in Russia. The Antichrist would be proud of his minion. You win with your thread. Most everything It's a truck with a steel gate on the back. Just a statement of fact Motec M820, AIM dash, ported 13B-RE Cosmo, 6-spd trans, 4.3 Torsen, custom twin wg fully divided mani, Custom 4" split into 2x 3" exhaust, Custom HMIC, Custom custom custom custom I like to welder stuff.... No Bolt-ons allowed. Dyno'ed @ Speed1 Tuned by me - 405rwhp on WG.... WM50 cuming soon. *-Angry Motherfcker Mode ENGAGED-**

01-14-2011, 08:44 PM	#12
NoDOHC The quest for more torque Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Sheboygan, Wisconsin Posts: 855 Rep Power: 18	Please don't take offense from RETed, he is a very knowledgeable and intelligent member of the community and I think that he really cares about the rotary community. I think this is why he is so fast to jump on what he sees as misinformation. I know that he comes across a little bluntly at times, but I think that he means no harm by it. Some day he will stop attacking the person that has the idea that he disagrees with and start attacking the idea - until then, please understand that it is his way of disagreeing and I don't think that he means to offend. (Please feel free to agree with this yourself RETed - I don't purport to speak for you). __________________ 1986 GXL ('87 4-port NA - Haltech E8, LS2 Coils. Defined Autoworks Headers, Dual 2.5" Exhaust (Dual Superflow, dBX mufflers) 1991 Coupe (KYB AGX Shocks, Eibach lowering springs, RB exhaust, Stock and Automatic)

01-14-2011, 09:06 PM	#13
Rotary Related Good stuff at low prices Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: TX Posts: 52 Rep Power: 16	I'm sure he is a good member. I just think his method was a bit much is all. Then the topic got way off somehow and I was supposedly using a factory OMP setup? It's crazy in here. Crazy I tell ya. We could say this: Any oil injection method is fine, if you are fine with it yourself and it's two stroke not four stroke oil. __________________ Visit us at: www.rotaryrelated.com or find us on facebook

01-14-2011, 09:39 PM	#14
NoDOHC The quest for more torque Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Sheboygan, Wisconsin Posts: 855 Rep Power: 18	I think that it is very important to have discussions about what works and what doesn't, what each of us has found, reasons that we do things, theories on why Mazda did things, deeper engine or suspension theory, etc. It is also important that we don't pass inaccurate information on because someone may read it and take it as fact. For this reason, it is good to state what you have found, what you do and why you do it. As long as we keep these pieces of information as pieces of information and debate in a mature and intelligent fashion, debate is good, as it allows posterity to see both sides of the issue. __________________ 1986 GXL ('87 4-port NA - Haltech E8, LS2 Coils. Defined Autoworks Headers, Dual 2.5" Exhaust (Dual Superflow, dBX mufflers) 1991 Coupe (KYB AGX Shocks, Eibach lowering springs, RB exhaust, Stock and Automatic)